The Border
Constructive discussion? Nothing constructive about blatant lies and right wing propaganda.
There’s no “surge” at the border..period. Much less hundreds of thousands. During 2019 with the other guy, there were more people deported back through the southern border, and that number was in the thousands. Not hundreds of thousands! It’s the people who were waiting in Mexico until the other guy was out of office, who decided to come to get into the country. If you know anything about the southern border situation other than the garbage you listen to from your racist propagandists, you would know that early spring is always the busiest season for people seeking asylum in the country.
you come on here with your bull caca provoking people and then complain that you can’t get a constructive discussion? You and your idiotic cartoons? Really?
mtierney said:
ml1 said:
let's be clear. there are not "hundreds of thousands" of migrants currently massed at the border.
Don’t take my word for it.....
if 100,000 are apprehended in a month, that's not "hundreds of thousands." And if they are apprehended over the course of a month, that would mean roughly 3,000 on any given day. So there's no way that at a single point in time there are hundreds of thousands of migrants massed at the border.
math.
For a few years I have been thinking of businesses that seem like a fit for the area, based on my familiarity with them.
Aside from the cruelty free cosmetic lines, I was fixated on the folkloric art of the area, specifically the embroidery. My friend who owned Granny Takes A Trip back in the day, used to pay tax on embroidery done in China, used for the glitter rock designs often worn by Hendrix. As a fashion/costume designer I kept my eye on the market and what countries were doing which kind of manufacturing. Pals set up shop in Bali, India, and London.
Embroidered clothing has taken off again, with a fairly expensive clothing line by a Chinese designer based in California, (blouses $400), possibly produced in China. He has sustained a growing market for several years. If a similar line was produced in Nicaragua, that was duty free as an incentive, it might create a broader manufacturing market, knock offs being the lifeblood of the fashion world.
Those I know who design jewelry remember Fred Leighton who introduced many of us to the beauty of designs from Mexico in his early shop in the Village. I saw a small pair of vintage earrings for $4,500. Wondering if such a budding designer would find native stones and craftsmanship in Honduras.
Just musing a bit. Flashbacks to a time when friends were setting out on journeys to Guatemala and beyond.
Morganna said:
For a few years I have been thinking of businesses that seem like a fit for the area, based on my familiarity with them.
Aside from the cruelty free cosmetic lines, I was fixated on the folkloric art of the area, specifically the embroidery. My friend who owned Granny Takes A Trip back in the day, used to pay tax on embroidery done in China, used for the glitter rock designs often worn by Hendrix. As a fashion/costume designer I kept my eye on the market and what countries were doing which kind of manufacturing. Pals set up shop in Bali, India, and London.
Embroidered clothing has taken off again, with a fairly expensive clothing line by a Chinese designer based in California, (blouses $400), possibly produced in China. He has sustained a growing market for several years. If a similar line was produced in Nicaragua, that was duty free as an incentive, it might create a broader manufacturing market, knock offs being the lifeblood of the fashion world.
Those I know who design jewelry remember Fred Leighton who introduced many of us to the beauty of designs from Mexico in his early shop in the Village. I saw a small pair of vintage earrings for $4,500. Wondering if such a budding designer would find native stones and craftsmanship in Honduras.
Just musing a bit. Flashbacks to a time when friends were setting out on journeys to Guatemala and beyond.
That’s really cool. The USA needs to get back into South America. The Chinese and Russians are moving in, lending money and building infrastructure. We have neglected all our southern neighbors for decades. These people don’t want communism, or else they would be lined up at the Chinese and Russian or Cuban embassies in their countries. They want peace and a decent living.
but we outsourced almost everything towards Far East, and neglected our neighbors to the south. We made some good headway in Colombia, which is now better than it was back in the ‘80’s. We can do it. But we have to at least think of these countries as viable and productive sources, and not just siht hole places.
mtierney said:
“On 2 December 1823, President James Monroe delivered the 'Monroe Doctrine' which would eventually influence Secretary of State James G. Blaine to push for the creation of the Pan-American Conferences. In this speech, President Monroe stated that any further attempts by the Europeans to colonize the Americas (North, Central and South) would be seen as an act of aggression that would include intervention by the United States.
That doctrine seems to have lasted all of ten years.
Controversy exists over the Falklands' discovery and subsequent colonisation by Europeans. At various times, the islands have had French, British, Spanish, and Argentine settlements. Britain reasserted its rule in 1833, but Argentina maintains its claim to the islands. In April 1982, Argentine military forces invaded the islands. British administration was restored two months later at the end of the Falklands War. Almost all Falklanders favour the archipelago remaining a UK overseas territory. Its sovereignty status is part of an ongoing dispute between Argentina and the United Kingdom.
I'm not sure how it influenced James G. Blaine half century later.
As to our "Southern Border" it resulted from a War. If there had not been that War or if they other side had won the Border would be somewhere much farther North and I'm not sure who, if anyone, would be trying to cross or which way they would be going.
Almost all national borders are artificial.
Jaytee said:
That’s really cool. The USA needs to get back into South America.
Great idea!
https://medium.com/s/story/timeline-us-intervention-central-america-a9bea9ebc148
An excerpt:
The liberal rhetoric of inclusion and common humanity is insufficient: we must also acknowledge the role that a century of U.S.-backed military coups, corporate plundering, and neoliberal sapping of resources has played in the poverty, instability, and violence that now drives people from Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras toward Mexico and the United States.
Jaytee said:
Constructive discussion? Nothing constructive about blatant lies and right wing propaganda.
There’s no “surge” at the border..period. Much less hundreds of thousands.
you come on here with your bull caca provoking people and then complain that you can’t get a constructive discussion? You and your idiotic cartoons? Really?
Left wing propaganda works for you? As far as “blatant lies” — or even fibbing or stretching the truth goes — truth will out.
STANV said:
Almost all national borders are artificial.
People migrate for different reasons -- fleeing violence is a different motivation than seeking economic opportunity. On the economic front, our border policies create a distorted labor market businesses take advantage of at the expense of workers. Some might call the result an "artificial" distortion of the free market.
Without the threat of deportation, would businesses be able to impose such low wages on workers who crossed the border without documentation? I do not think so. And with rising wages, the incentive to use undocumented labor would fall, and the opportunities drawing people north would decrease.
And in the reverse direction, people already here but not finding opportunities would be freer to travel back south across the border, rather than the crossing being so risky they feel compelled to stay here whether it makes economic sense or not.
Of course that's a labor-based approach to "free trade." Most free traders really mean the free movement of capital, not labor.
DaveSchmidt said:
I didn’t. Still not hundreds of thousands. Also: “It’s important to note that apprehensions refer to events, not people, and some migrants may be apprehended more than once.”
For the number crunchers here...from a source you can trust in DJT’s time.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/23/politics/border-crisis-2021-2019-trump-biden-explainer/index.html
mtierney said:
DaveSchmidt said:
I didn’t. Still not hundreds of thousands. Also: “It’s important to note that apprehensions refer to events, not people, and some migrants may be apprehended more than once.”
For the number crunchers here...from a source you can trust in DJT’s time.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/23/politics/border-crisis-2021-2019-trump-biden-explainer/index.html
Still not "hundreds of thousands." As you said, the truth will out.
oh gee look who screwed up again.
WASHINGTON — In early December, the Biden transition team and career government officials began sounding an alarm on the need to increase shelter space for the large number of migrant children expected to soon be crossing the border, but the Trump administration didn't take action until just days before the inauguration, according to two Biden transition officials and a U.S. official with knowledge of the discussions.
"They were sitting on their hands," said one of the transition officials, who does not currently work for the Biden administration and spoke on the condition of anonymity. "It was incredibly frustrating."
The Biden transition team made its concerns about the lack of shelter space known to Trump officials both at the Department of Health and Human Services and the Department of Homeland Security, laying out the need to open an influx shelter in Carrizo Springs, Texas, and to issue what's known as a "request for assistance" that would start the process of surveying new sites for expanded shelters, according to the transition officials.
mtierney said:
blah, blah, blah
Talking to conservatives about immigration is really just talking to conservatives about racism.
STANV said:
Great idea!
https://medium.com/s/story/timeline-us-intervention-central-america-a9bea9ebc148
An excerpt:
The liberal rhetoric of inclusion and common humanity is insufficient: we must also acknowledge the role that a century of U.S.-backed military coups, corporate plundering, and neoliberal sapping of resources has played in the poverty, instability, and violence that now drives people from Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras toward Mexico and the United States.
Stan, I wasn’t necessarily talking about the American government intervention in south and Central America. I am talking about American businesses. Like the ones who outsource everything to the East. Creating jobs. Giving the people an opportunity to make a decent living.
of course the corruption is an impediment, but private companies have been very successful in Latin America for decades.
How do you define "corruption". Is that for example when you have to give elected officials something of (monetary) value in order to get them to support your bill? In that case the US Senate is corrupt as heck. Actually, let me widen that to the US political system.
Jaytee said:
Stan, I wasn’t necessarily talking about the American government intervention in south and Central America. I am talking about American businesses.
The government intervention was to protect American business interests
STANV said:
Great idea!
https://medium.com/s/story/timeline-us-intervention-central-america-a9bea9ebc148
An excerpt:
The liberal rhetoric of inclusion and common humanity is insufficient: we must also acknowledge the role that a century of U.S.-backed military coups, corporate plundering, and neoliberal sapping of resources has played in the poverty, instability, and violence that now drives people from Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras toward Mexico and the United States.
There is a lot packed into this section, posted below. Is the conclusion that American businesses, set up as "fair trade" arrangements, that respected the culture as well as the natural resources, such as the examples that I mentioned would be just more economic exploitation? A company for example that used plants, such as the skin care model, would not necessarily weaken "the rural agricultural economies." As for agriculture, I'm certainly not a farmer, perhaps a pretty savvy gardener, but climate change will definitely effect agriculture so with or without corporate intervention, there will come modifications
. I am imagining a hybrid of financial aid with tax incentives for businesses. Somewhat idealistic but not sure we have to consider it "neoliberal sapping of resources."
If I'm misunderstanding it, I'd like to get a better understanding.
" The liberal rhetoric of inclusion and common humanity is insufficient: we must also acknowledge the role that a century of U.S.-backed military coups, corporate plundering, and neoliberal sapping of resources has played in the poverty, instability, and violence that now drives people from Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras toward Mexico and the United States. For decades, U.S. policies of military intervention and economic neoliberalism have undermined democracy and stability in the region, creating vacuums of power in which drug cartels and paramilitary alliances have risen. In the past fifteen years alone, CAFTA-DR — a free trade agreement between the U.S. and five Central American countries as well as the Dominican Republic — has restructured the region’s economy and guaranteed economic dependence on the United States through massive trade imbalances and the influx of American agricultural and industrial goods that weaken domestic industries. Yet there are few connections being drawn between the weakening of Central American rural agricultural economies at the hands of CAFTA and the rise in migration from the region in the years since. In general, the U.S. takes no responsibility for the conditions that drive Central American migrants to the border."
Ah just was reminded of the company I originally had in mind, The Body Shop. Found some info online referring to the founder, Dame Anita Roddick's developing concept. The company was founded in 1976. Digging around this quote is from Wikipedia best I could come up with at the moment.
"Throughout the 1980s and 90s, the company joined a number of campaigns related to social responsibility and environmental issues. These included a "Trade Not Aid" campaign in 1987, wherein the company sourced some of its ingredients directly from the native communities they originated from. The company also made alliances with Greenpeace and Amnesty International.[8]"
On the topic of US (in)actions that contribute to conditions driving migration, our gun problem becomes our neighbors' gun problem. The term "iron river" refers to the flow of guns from the US into Mexico and further, contributing to the violence that can drive people to flee north.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/20/opinion/international-world/guns-mexico.html
It looks like Biden has made significant progress at the border. Naturally then, it's not a big news story anymore.
Meanwhile, while all this trolling goes on by Rep. Boebert and the right wing, the Biden administration has quietly been extremely effective over the last month at getting kids out of Border Patrol custody.
— Aaron Reichlin-Melnick (@ReichlinMelnick) April 29, 2021
The number of kids in Border Patrol custody has dropped 82% in a month. https://t.co/RILQEofXAU pic.twitter.com/SZMBmI1NuY
drummerboy said:
It looks like Biden has made significant progress at the border. Naturally then, it's not a big news story anymore.
Sorry for the previous blip. I'll try working through this again.
The chart is sourced to HHS/DHS Unaccompanied Children Daily Report. Aaron Reichlin-Melnick is policy counsel for the American Immigration Council, so he's legit, but the only daily report I can find is for unaccompanied children who are in HHS custody. While CBP custody may be way down, HHS custody is way up, nearly doubling in the last month to 22,103 and still rising:
https://data.cdc.gov/Global-Health/HHS-Unaccompanied-Children-Program/w9g9-rj4y
DaveSchmidt said:
drummerboy said:
It looks like Biden has made significant progress at the border. Naturally then, it's not a big news story anymore.
Sorry for the previous blip. I'll try working through this again.
The chart is sourced to HHS/DHS Unaccompanied Children Daily Report. Aaron Reichlin-Melnick is policy counsel for the American Immigration Council, so he's legit, but the only daily report I can find is for unaccompanied children who are in HHS custody. While CBP custody may be way down, HHS custody is way up, nearly doubling in the last month to 22,103 and still rising:
https://data.cdc.gov/Global-Health/HHS-Unaccompanied-Children-Program/w9g9-rj4y
Yeah,as you read further in the twitter thread I posted, there are certainly still problems that Melnick points out.
drummerboy said:
Yeah,as you read further in the twitter thread I posted, there are certainly still problems that Melnick points out.
Naturally then, the big news story being missed is ... ?
well, there still appears to be a significant improvement. what happened to the crisis at the border?
drummerboy said:
well, there still appears to be a significant improvement. what happened to the crisis at the border?
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/29/politics/border-patrol-unaccompanied-minors/index.html
I didn’t. Still not hundreds of thousands. Also: “It’s important to note that apprehensions refer to events, not people, and some migrants may be apprehended more than once.”