The gluten-free scam

sprout said:

...Also, I recently went to an allergist. My mouth has a reaction to walnuts whenever I eat them...

Me too.

My mouth feels funny after eating eggplant sometimes.

Cook it next time

drummerboy said:

My mouth feels funny after eating eggplant sometimes.

Yep. And pineapple, too.

You're both allergic to latex. Google it. You're welcome.

The enyzmes in pineapple tenderize your tongue and mouth.. the same way it does a steak. Delicious eh?

And possibly somewhat sexy.

Or, thuper thexy, in this case.

doublehappiness said:

Or, thuper thexy, in this case.

)

marylago

I did not mean to get you upset. My post was not directed at you. Maybe you have celiac, as you yourself leave open the possibility. or maybe you have some other issue that is real. There is really no scientific basis to conclude that gluten is harmful to people who don't have celiac or a confirmed allergy. That is an exceedingly small number of people.

I also want to be clear. I was not dissing the placebo effect. It is real; it brings real relief to some non-trivial number of people. As Offit notes in the book I referred to above, there is absolutely no scientific basis for acupuncture while there is a real placebo effect associated with it. It is postulated that the therapeutic setting combined with a caring, comforting clinician rather than needles more or less randomly stuck in your skin is what causes the effect. I suspect something similar happens to non-celiac, non-allergic people who go GF: they feel like they are doing something to feel better, they are taking charge, etc. There's probably also a little confirmation bias going on as well. But, none of this means that the benefit the person feels is not real, it's just not coming from the lack of gluten.

Say the word poison ivy and i get it. Apparently mangos have a similar chemical near their core and handling the bark of a mango tree can cause the same reaction as handling poison ivy. People who grew up near mango groves in places like the philippines can be immune to poison ivy. Pretty awesome. Sorry for the drift

Adele said:

You're both allergic to latex. Google it. You're welcome.

Um, what? I googled it, and walnuts and pineapple are listed as low or undetermined relationships with latex:
http://latexallergyresources.org/cross-reactive-food

Never had a reaction to latex, as far as I know.

@sprout, I was teasing, sorry. Suspected latex allergy is one I've discussed a lot with a friend, and pineapple and eggplant were two of about a bazillion potential cross-reactives on his list. Just trying to point out how easy it is to jump to conclusions about this stuff with the surplus of confounding info.

http://allergies.about.com/od/medicationallergies/a/latexfood.htm

phew! I can keep my outfits.

Eggplant reactions are on the list for nightshades. Doesn't necessarily mean you'll react to everything on the list, but eat enough of all of them in a very short time and you'll probably overwhelm your immune system.

And that's how the food chemical sensitivities work: eat frequently, in generous amounts, of something your system is iffy about, and it decides it won't tolerate it any more. The signs and symptoms may be masked by other processes going on in your body: PCOS and endometriosis overshadowed the bloat and cramping I experienced with dairy and gluten (both of which I am not allergic to but overly sensitive to; because I won't die from my symptoms, they won't call it an allergy); chronic migraines masked other reactions to fermented foods, yet the reactions have been there since I was a small child.

In earlier generations, chronic bedwetters, slow earners, clumsy people and those who had chronic skin issues were often accused of being lazy, wicked or of lying. Many of them had the kinds of food chemical issues we now recognise, because this runs in family lines and can be traced at genetic level. It's not just environmental, 'learned response'.

sprout said:

Adele said:

You're both allergic to latex. Google it. You're welcome.

Um, what? I googled it, and walnuts and pineapple are listed as low or undetermined relationships with latex:
http://latexallergyresources.org/cross-reactive-food

Never had a reaction to latex, as far as I know.

@sprout, do you have birch pollen allergies or peach allergy? It seems that there is cross-reactivity between these and walnuts.
http://www.food-info.net/uk/intol/walnut.htm

dg64 said:

@sprout, do you have birch pollen allergies or peach allergy? It seems that there is cross-reactivity between these and walnuts.
http://www.food-info.net/uk/intol/walnut.htm

Mild, if any to peach. But sometimes the part of the peach that was touching the pit can give my tongue that raw feeling. The rest is usually OK.

Birch pollen? I used to chew on birch branches for the birch-beer tasting sap. Don't recall any reaction... but that's not the pollen.

Fact is, the serious doctor-scientists at serious institutions who are the big experts have done some research on non celiac gluten sensitivity and concluded that it is a real thing, although they don't fully understand it. Then again, it's fairly recent that they have begun to understand the mechanism of celiac, as well as the scope of the damage it causes. I assume that over time the scientific community's understanding of celiac will continue to evolve based on research. As will the understanding of the physiological cause of non celiacs gluten sensitivity. So while this father of a child with biopsy-diagnosed celiac and husband of a wife with nonceliac gluten sensitivity agrees that there are people jumping on the bandwagon who will get no benefit from a gf diet at great expense (believe me on this one) it is inaccurate and inconsistent with the current science to portray nonceliac gluten sensitivity as "woo" whatever the hell you mean by that. If you are more comfortable believing the earth is flat, be my guest. But tossing around phrases like "gluten free scam" makes it that much more difficult to get people to take my daughter'a very real disease seriously and that much harder for her to make her way in the world, because your disclaimer notwithstanding, people who read articles about the "gluten free scam" generally don't absorb the disclaimer.

This is db's MO on such topics. In addition to his own trash talk he will occasionally add in content from another trash talker. If you'll notice from that article (or rather blog rant) the disclaimers about respecting people who could be sensitive are weak. I didn't see any credible sources discrediting the notion that gluten can cause harm. Just because we've been eating wheat products for thousands of years doesn't mean it is completely fine for us. There were those many many more thousands of years humans and their ancestors had fire for cooking but were not farmers.

Here's one journal report showing the significance of non-celiac wheat sensitivity. Several people in my extended family, with stomach irritability, have been helped by a gluten free diet.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22825366

davidfrazer said:

As Offit notes in the book I referred to above, there is absolutely no scientific basis for acupuncture while there is a real placebo effect associated with it. It is postulated that the therapeutic setting combined with a caring, comforting clinician rather than needles more or less randomly stuck in your skin is what causes the effect.

My dog has advanced arthritis of the spine. She hates her acupuncture treatments, but afterwards she is able to jump in the car and climb stairs. My vet/acupuncturist has plenty of other happy dog clients. I believe there is an observable physiological benefit to the treatments or I wouldn't be driving to Parsippany and shelling out $75 every two weeks. And I'll keep doing it until someone convinces me that my dog is experiencing the placebo effect.

kthnry said:

davidfrazer said:

As Offit notes in the book I referred to above, there is absolutely no scientific basis for acupuncture while there is a real placebo effect associated with it. It is postulated that the therapeutic setting combined with a caring, comforting clinician rather than needles more or less randomly stuck in your skin is what causes the effect.

My dog has advanced arthritis of the spine. She hates her acupuncture treatments, but afterwards she is able to jump in the car and climb stairs. My vet/acupuncturist has plenty of other happy dog clients. I believe there is an observable physiological benefit to the treatments or I wouldn't be driving to Parsippany and shelling out $75 every two weeks. And I'll keep doing it until someone convinces me that my dog is experiencing the placebo effect.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/acupuncture-doesnt-work/

guy said:

Fact is, the serious doctor-scientists at serious institutions who are the big experts have done some research on non celiac gluten sensitivity and concluded that it is a real thing, although they don't fully understand it. Then again, it's fairly recent that they have begun to understand the mechanism of celiac, as well as the scope of the damage it causes. I assume that over time the scientific community's understanding of celiac will continue to evolve based on research. As will the understanding of the physiological cause of non celiacs gluten sensitivity. So while this father of a child with biopsy-diagnosed celiac and husband of a wife with nonceliac gluten sensitivity agrees that there are people jumping on the bandwagon who will get no benefit from a gf diet at great expense (believe me on this one) it is inaccurate and inconsistent with the current science to portray nonceliac gluten sensitivity as "woo" whatever the hell you mean by that. If you are more comfortable believing the earth is flat, be my guest. But tossing around phrases like "gluten free scam" makes it that much more difficult to get people to take my daughter'a very real disease seriously and that much harder for her to make her way in the world, because your disclaimer notwithstanding, people who read articles about the "gluten free scam" generally don't absorb the disclaimer.

As I mentioned in OP, I readily admit there is research showing wheat sensitivity, however point out that the research is pointing out to causes other than gluten. So rather than blame "me" for making it more difficult for people with wheat sensitivity, maybe you should blame the gluten faddists who are clouding the waters.

Apparently drummerboy is a shill in the pocket of the highly secretive Big Gluten Cabal. Which is also an awesome name for a band.

davidfrazer said:

There is really no scientific basis to conclude that gluten is harmful to people who don't have celiac or a confirmed allergy. That is an exceedingly small number of people.

There are many allergies that are hard to confirm through tests. There are no tests for non-IgE mediated allergies other than elimination diets and in some cases confirmation is sought through endoscopies. But these are real allergies and the offending food has to be avoided fastidiously to be free of symptoms which are mostly GI related. Some of these allergies are outgrown by kids and others are lifelong ailments. Celiac is a form of non-IgE mediated allergy. I have no idea whether there are estimates of how many people suffer from these allergies but the idea of a confirmed allergy is quite malleable. Many people with the GI symptoms are not even aware that there is such a thing as non-IgE mediated allergies. I bet that a whole bunch of people who get relief from going gluten free actually suffer from this kind of disease.

Plus, as mentioned above, an adult can grow into the allergy as chemical tipping point is reached; or/and lifelong signs and symptoms are masked by other medical conditions.

Doncha love sanctimonious sods who know your body better than you and your medical advisers??? Turns out that now research has caught up with what my family has been experiencing for generations, we have Crohns, fructan and glucan issues, salicylate and penicillin allergies, dairy and wheat/gluten issues, related cancers, gout and a whole host of other matters throughout each branch in each generation for over 150 years. Maybe people should stop preaching their one-solution-for-all and recognise that each bundle of genes is unique.

It's ridiculous to argue that when the elimination of certain foods alleviate symptoms that you shouldn't keep avoiding those foods. I bet there are a lot of people who find relief from cutting out wheat and dairy who are actually suffering from IBS. There are certain sugars and proteins in foods (even some of the healthiest foods) that we don't have the proper enzyme to break down and it causes some severe digestive issues in many people.

Freeway said:

Say the word poison ivy and i get it. Apparently mangos have a similar chemical near their core and handling the bark of a mango tree can cause the same reaction as handling poison ivy. People who grew up near mango groves in places like the philippines can be immune to poison ivy. Pretty awesome. Sorry for the drift

I'm pretty sure I'm immune. I mean, I've never made tea out of it or anything, but my backyard is pretty well covered and I've never had so much as a bump.

RobB said:

Freeway said:

Say the word poison ivy and i get it. Apparently mangos have a similar chemical near their core and handling the bark of a mango tree can cause the same reaction as handling poison ivy. People who grew up near mango groves in places like the philippines can be immune to poison ivy. Pretty awesome. Sorry for the drift

I'm pretty sure I'm immune. I mean, I've never made tea out of it or anything, but my backyard is pretty well covered and I've never had so much as a bump.

You busy this weekend?

RobB said:

Freeway said:

Say the word poison ivy and i get it. Apparently mangos have a similar chemical near their core and handling the bark of a mango tree can cause the same reaction as handling poison ivy. People who grew up near mango groves in places like the philippines can be immune to poison ivy. Pretty awesome. Sorry for the drift

I'm pretty sure I'm immune. I mean, I've never made tea out of it or anything, but my backyard is pretty well covered and I've never had so much as a bump.

My mother was like that, until she was not. Then she broke out so bad, her eyes swelled shut. I have very little reaction but I stay far, far away from it.