Pope Francis, Catholics, and Christians in the news worldwide

Auschwitz 1945

United States 2018

More like Dachau in 37. These are concentration camps, which are horrible but to compare them to the Nazi Death Camps is to engage in unsustainable hyperbole. 

There is still time to ensure that “Never Again” is something more than an empty slogan but that time is dwindling. We can all see where this heading. 

We lock people up in cages, separate them from their children, and treat them like ****, only because they are brown and "not from Norway" (Trump quote). Tierney of course thinks he is doing God's work.

I’m with you. Just trying to keep perspective. 

mtierney said:
It’s complicated! 
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/analysis-the-amazon-synod-and-the-english-language-44225

 Just in case folks forgot what my earlier post was about. The off-topic conjoined twins have struck again.

Every time she posts that image I am struck by the irony. 

Come out from under your bridge, participate in actual conversations and then we can work on correcting your vocabulary. 

basil said:
We lock people up in cages, separate them from their children, and treat them like ****, only because they are brown and "not from Norway" (Trump quote). Tierney of course thinks he is doing God's work.

 Apparently, same conditions under BHO.  See:  https://www.businessinsider.com/migrant-children-in-cages-2014-photos-explained-2018-5

Additional note, article states that the child policy was slightly different in 2014:  only children not accompanied by adults were placed in cage confinement.

proeasdf said:
 Apparently, same conditions under BHO.  See:  https://www.businessinsider.com/migrant-children-in-cages-2014-photos-explained-2018-5


Additional note, article states that the child policy was slightly different in 2014:  only children not accompanied by adults were placed in cage confinement.

 How old were those children? I can't imagine infants, toddlers or even small children being not accompanied by an adult. Furthermore it is my understanding that families were not separated.

Also, how long were the children in 2014 kept is such places?

In any even whatever was done before does not justify doing it now.

Why is this discussion in this thread? has The Pope commented on this matter?

STANV said:
Why is this discussion in this thread? has The Pope commented on this matter?

 The Pope has condemned the mistreatment of migrants in extremely strong terms.

proeasdf said:

basil said:
We lock people up in cages, separate them from their children, and treat them like ****, only because they are brown and "not from Norway" (Trump quote). Tierney of course thinks he is doing God's work.

 Apparently, same conditions under BHO.  See:  https://www.businessinsider.com/migrant-children-in-cages-2014-photos-explained-2018-5


Additional note, article states that the child policy was slightly different in 2014:  only children not accompanied by adults were placed in cage confinement.

 Were they given soap, diapers and basic medical care? Were they forced to sleep on bare concrete? Were they given adequate food?  Were toddlers left in the care of 12 year olds?  How many died in detention?

I think your post needs a little context.  Furthermore I think you know this but you don't want the facts to get in the way of a little trolling.  

.

Klinker said:

proeasdf said:

basil said:
We lock people up in cages, separate them from their children, and treat them like ****, only because they are brown and "not from Norway" (Trump quote). Tierney of course thinks he is doing God's work.

 Apparently, same conditions under BHO.  See:  https://www.businessinsider.com/migrant-children-in-cages-2014-photos-explained-2018-5


Additional note, article states that the child policy was slightly different in 2014:  only children not accompanied by adults were placed in cage confinement.

 Were they given soap, diapers and basic medical care? Were they forced to sleep on bare concrete? Were they given adequate food?  Were toddlers left in the care of 12 year olds?  How many died in detention?
I think your post needs a little context.  Furthermore I think you know this but you don't want the facts to get in the way of a little trolling.  

 You are the one implicitly asserting that the situation of children being detained is a new one.  My understanding of your POV is that you believe that this situation is new one.  Beginning after DJT was inaugurated (if my understanding is incorrect then please correct me).

Being that you are the one demanding change from past practices (and implicitly alleging that this situation is the result of DJT's animus, and/or policies), it seems that you should be the one to do additional research.  

Interesting that one of the first things that you resort to is an ad hominem against me because I have a slightly different perspective (in this instance your ad hominem attack is your allegation of trolling on my part).  I do hereby accept your ad hominem  attack as an acknowledgement by you, Klinker: i.) of your lack of substantive argument; and ii.) that my posting has overcome your hysterics.

What is your solution?

Rapid DNA tests are now being used.  Results of such DNA tests show that about 30% of migrant children at border detention are with adults who claim to be their parents but DNA tests do NOT support the relationship.  See https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/defense-national-security/dna-tests-reveal-30-of-suspected-fraudulent-migrant-families-were-unrelated

This situation makes me fearful that a portion of these children are being accompanied by sex traffickers.  Please provide your solution to this problem.

basil said:
Auschwitz 1945
United States 2019

 OK, Captain Ahab.  It guess that it is Manichean ethics time.  Clearly, you believe that you are the absolutely good one (in your Manichean narrative) and DJT, Repubs and all-to-the-right-of you are absolutely bad and evil.  Congratulations!!! You and Captain Ahab are profoundly of the same ilk.

PS I hate nazis, nazism, concentration camps and death camps.

PPS I hate Manichean ethics.

proeasdf said:

 You are the one implicitly asserting that the situation of children being detained is a new one.  

 Nope.  You need to stop responding to what you think people are "implicitly" asserting and start responding to what they are actually writing.  

proeasdf said:

Interesting that one of the first things that you resort to is an ad hominem against me 

 I have been responding to you for months.  It was only recently that the patterns in your posts became so obvious that I stopped regarding you as a serious poster and moved you into the troll category. 

Maybe I am seeing intent where there really is only incompetence.  Maybe you really believe that people are "implicitly" asserting all of the straw man arguments that you conjure up.  I don't know.  What I do know is that responding to your posts is a complete waste of time.

Klinker feels that he knows all the answers and has a great deal of respect for his own judgment and perspective, limited though it is. 

lord_pabulum said:
Klinker feels that he knows all the answers and has a great deal of respect for his own judgment and perspective, limited though it is. 

 Agreed.

PS It appears that Klinker is not able to provide any substantive response but is unwilling to acknowledge this.

Klinker said:

proeasdf said:


 You are the one implicitly asserting that the situation of children being detained is a new one.  

 Nope.  You need to stop responding to what you think people are "implicitly" asserting and start responding to what they are actually writing.  

OK, if (I understand you correctly) you agree that children in border detention were being detained in cages when BHO was president.  

Why no outrage when the same type of detention was occurring under BHO?

If you had no political commitment to change of child border detention rules under BHO then are you NOT at least partially responsible due to your lack of response to this issue when BHO was president?

Klinker said:

proeasdf said:


Interesting that one of the first things that you resort to is an ad hominem against me 

 I have been responding to you for months.  It was only recently that the patterns in your posts became so obvious that I stopped regarding you as a serious poster and moved you into the troll category. 
Maybe I am seeing intent where there really is only incompetence.  Maybe you really believe that people are "implicitly" asserting all of the straw man arguments that you conjure up.  I don't know.  What I do know is that responding to your posts is a complete waste of time.

 Klinker,

Your posting is the worst defense of an ad hominem attack that I have ever seen.  Can you post without your fall-back (namely, an ad hominem attack)?

I doubt it.  Please, prove me wrong.

Best regards,

A Thoughtful Poster (AKA proeasdf)

proeasdf said:


 I assume that you are tacitly implying blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah  

Dude, don't worry if I don't reply to your posts, it will just be because I am ignoring you. I do that sometimes with posters that are either trolling or just insane. 

Life is too short to go chasing after straw horses.

STANV said:
Why is this discussion in this thread? has The Pope commented on this matter?

Then there was this Jesus chap who had a few things to say about how to treat strangers, the sick, and people in need. This is a thread about Christianity and Catholicism I thought. Both Pope Francis and Jesus made it abundantly clear that Christianity is not about what you say, but what you actually do for people that need help.

proeasdf said:

basil said:
Auschwitz 1945
United States 2019

 OK, Captain Ahab.  It guess that it is Manichean ethics time.  Clearly, you believe that you are the absolutely good one (in your Manichean narrative) and DJT, Repubs and all-to-the-right-of you are absolutely bad and evil.  Congratulations!!! You and Captain Ahab are profoundly of the same ilk.

PS I hate nazis, nazism, concentration camps and death camps.
PPS I hate Manichean ethics.

You can call me names all day long, and you can say that someone else (BHO) did it first, if that makes you feel better. But this is a thread about Christianity. So in that context, why don't you say what you think of what is going on with these immigrants at the southern border, and what you feel should be done about it. That seems a better use of all of our time.

Bad post

Wrong thread, too

basil said:

proeasdf said:

basil said:
Auschwitz 1945
United States 2019

 OK, Captain Ahab.  It guess that it is Manichean ethics time.  Clearly, you believe that you are the absolutely good one (in your Manichean narrative) and DJT, Repubs and all-to-the-right-of you are absolutely bad and evil.  Congratulations!!! You and Captain Ahab are profoundly of the same ilk.

PS I hate nazis, nazism, concentration camps and death camps.
PPS I hate Manichean ethics.

You can call me names all day long, and you can say that someone else (BHO) did it first, if that makes you feel better. But this is a thread about Christianity. So in that context, why don't you say what you think of what is going on with these immigrants at the southern border, and what you feel should be done about it. That seems a better use of all of our time.

 I made a joke and called you Cap'n Ahab.  Once again a joke.  And, an especially appropriate joke in light of your black/white (not in a racial context but a good vs evil context) ethics/philosophy.  Before we suggest solutions to the child border detention issue, I believe we need to agree on basic facts.  Such as is this a new issue, old issue, expansion of old issue, etc. 

Are you in agreement that border detention children were being caged back in 2014?

PS I do not believe the Bible, nor the teachings of Jesus, are dispositive on how to remedy/reduce the caging of border detention children.

Here is where Jesus stands on helping the downtrodden:

Matthew 25:34-36 Then the king will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’

And here is where Pope Francis stands:

In Monday’s message, Francis said the presence of migrants and refugees, and of vulnerable people in general, is not a threat, but is “an invitation to recover some of those essential dimensions of our Christian existence and our humanity that risk being overlooked in a prosperous society.”

“That is why it is not just about migrants,” he said. “When we show concern for them, we also show concern for ourselves, for everyone; in taking care of them, we all grow; in listening to them, we also give voice to a part of ourselves that we may keep hidden because it is not well regarded nowadays.”

https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2019/05/27/pope-blasts-fearful-racist-attitude-toward-migrants/

You can argue you don't believe in them, or you don't believe in what they are saying, fine. But you cannot argue that it is not clear what they meant or that it is not clear what the implications are for the current situation at the southern border. And PS: it is completely irrelevant whether or not this is a new problem or whether it already existed since 2014.

basil said:
Here is where Jesus stands on helping the downtrodden:
Matthew 25:34-36 Then the king will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’
And here is where Pope Francis stands:
In Monday’s message, Francis said the presence of migrants and refugees, and of vulnerable people in general, is not a threat, but is “an invitation to recover some of those essential dimensions of our Christian existence and our humanity that risk being overlooked in a prosperous society.”
“That is why it is not just about migrants,” he said. “When we show concern for them, we also show concern for ourselves, for everyone; in taking care of them, we all grow; in listening to them, we also give voice to a part of ourselves that we may keep hidden because it is not well regarded nowadays.”
https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2019/05/27/pope-blasts-fearful-racist-attitude-toward-migrants/
You can argue you don't believe in them, or you don't believe in what they are saying, fine. But you cannot argue that it is not clear what they meant or that it is not clear what the implications are for the current situation at the southern border. And PS: it is completely irrelevant whether or not this is a new problem or whether it already existed since 2014.

Rapid DNA tests are now being used to assess the DNA of children and adults at border detention facilities.  Results of such DNA tests show that about 30% of migrant children at border detention are with adults who claim to be their parents but DNA tests do NOT support the parent-child relationship.  See https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/defense-national-security/dna-tests-reveal-30-of-suspected-fraudulent-migrant-families-were-unrelated

This situation makes me fearful that a portion of these children are being accompanied by sex traffickers.  Please have Pope Francis ("PF") provide us with a solution to this problem (and if you have solution then we would love to hear it).

PS PF's writing in the cruxnow.com link (set forth above) is NOT dispositive as to what to do regarding the US southern border issue/situation/crisis.

Perhaps instead of “cages” we should put the illegals up at the Four Seasons; with a spa voucher.  

Robert_Casotto said:
Perhaps instead of “cages” we should put the illegals up at the Four Seasons; with a spa voucher.  

 What would Jesus do?