The Border
DaveSchmidt said:
PVW said:
mtierney said:
If such a scenario were even remotely possible, and folks could wait at home until the proper time to safely exit — murderous gangs cooperating — we would not have a problem. Legal immigration works that way.
Under the Trump admin, gang violence was not grounds for asylum claims. How is it that you can say "legal immigration works that way" while simultaneously supporting efforts to prevent people from legally immigrating that way?
I could be wrong, but I thought mtierney was saying legal immigration works that way -- through local petitioning and process -- when there aren't murderous gangs. That is, when there are murderous gangs, local petitioning and process are moot.
I'm sure she'll clear up any confusion with a cartoon.
mtierney said:
News flash:
The Democrats are in the majority.
Add mtierney to those who support ending the Senate filibuster so Democrats can exercise their majority.
Ha -- and as I posted, there one showed up. How much doubt is there, really, that she's just simply anti-immigrant given that cartoon?
PVW said:
DaveSchmidt said:
(In practical terms, I’m having difficulty envisioning how an official, open-door process for seeking asylum at an embassy would function in the heart of a nation that is causing large numbers of people to seek asylum.)
Admittedly I'm not even poorly versed in the legal questions around this -- my reaction is mainly logistical. There's a bottleneck at the borders; solutions for solving bottlenecks generally involve a combination of reducing flow and distributing it better. If the obstacles to processing asylum applications in the country of origin are legal, then that might explain why that's not something we currently do (and something I'd think should change).
"The Biden administration has said that these detention centres are "no place for children" and that they are exploring alternatives to allow migrants to apply for asylum from their home country instead of attempting the dangerous journey."
mtierney said:
ml1’s says...”Honest coverage of this issue wouldn't lay the blame on a White House that doesn't have the means to solve it alone. Honest coverage would be identifying GOP obstruction in Congress as the main culprit.”
News flash:
The Democrats are in the majority.
Another news flash:
Democrats should have built on the foundation that was in place, rather than a egocentric need to upturn the system and confuse everyone — certainly the immigrant rush has been laid right at Joe’s feet.
News flash -- the filibuster means the majority party needs a super majority to pass legislation in the Senate.
PVW said:
Ha -- and as I posted, there one showed up. How much doubt is there, really, that she's just simply anti-immigrant given that cartoon?
My maternal grandparents left behind three children in the care of my maternal great-parents in Austria, to journey to New York. Almost five years passed before the parents could send for the children. My mother and her siblings arrived in 1911.
My father’s family left Ireland during the potato famine and the poverty and hunger which followed. They arrived in time to dig.
There are a number of interesting books written about the 1880s through the dawn of the 20th Century which describes the immense contributions of immigrants from around the world in creating our United States.
So, no, I am very definitely not anti-immigration. But the situation at our borders is a man-made political tragedy in which desperate people are the pawns. A humane, orderly process is necessary to protect the immigrants and the country they wish to enter. Coyotes, drug and human traffickers, terrorists, etc are real elements at the border.
Certainly our country’s concern over the further spread of Covid and its variants is a legitimate one. Vaccination should be mandatory before entry.
Well isn’t that what Biden is trying to do? Instead of calling the people “animals” and throwing them in cages? I’m sure you and your ancestors came without a legal status to live in America. If your only problem was pink eyes and a cough.... and still don’t see the racial prejudice. I really can’t help you understand. You’re stuck in a time warp where Ellis island was orderly lined up white immigrants looking for someplace to grow potatoes.
You think exactly like the republicans do. Prejudiced and racists
mtierney said:
PVW said:
Ha -- and as I posted, there one showed up. How much doubt is there, really, that she's just simply anti-immigrant given that cartoon?
My maternal grandparents left behind three children in the care of my maternal great-parents in Austria, to journey to New York. Almost five years passed before the parents could send for the children. My mother and her siblings arrived in 1911.
My father’s family left Ireland during the potato famine and the poverty and hunger which followed. They arrived in time to dig.
There are a number of interesting books written about the 1880s through the dawn of the 20th Century which describes the immense contributions of immigrants from around the world in creating our United States.
So, no, I am very definitely not anti-immigration. But the situation at our borders is a man-made political tragedy in which desperate people are the pawns. A humane, orderly process is necessary to protect the immigrants and the country they wish to enter. Coyotes, drug and human traffickers, terrorists, etc are real elements at the border.
Certainly our country’s concern over the further spread of Covid and its variants is a legitimate one. Vaccination should be mandatory before entry.
You support politicians who are anti-immigrant, and you either ignore this or sometimes explicitly support their actions. Someone who supports anti-immigrant actions is anti-immigrant.
The fact that you yourself come from immigrant stock, and that you are able to say things like "a humane, orderly process is necessary to protect the immigrants" while at the same time supporting cruel anti-immigrant actions makes it worse, not better.
As I said before, I'm never quite sure whether you're dishonest or willfully blind, but I'm also not sure it matters.
mtierney said:
So, no, I am very definitely not anti-immigration. But the situation at our borders is a man-made political tragedy in which desperate people are the pawns. A humane, orderly process is necessary to protect the immigrants and the country they wish to enter. Coyotes, drug and human traffickers, terrorists, etc are real elements at the border.
Sorry, that's not the Republican, anti-Biden way to treat people.
nohero said:
It's very simple, explains GOP Senator Cornyn. When you don't treat people like animals, this is what happens.
mtierney said:
So, no, I am very definitely not anti-immigration. But the situation at our borders is a man-made political tragedy in which desperate people are the pawns. A humane, orderly process is necessary to protect the immigrants and the country they wish to enter. Coyotes, drug and human traffickers, terrorists, etc are real elements at the border.
the notion that criminals trafficking drugs or humans are showing up at the border seeking legal status is just absurd. Instead of arguing with such stupid ideas we should just point out the irrationality and idiocy. The humanitarian crisis at the border has nothing to do with drug or human trafficking.
Remember when we had a Liar-in-chief who claimed that foreign terrorists were coming through the southern border:
https://apnews.com/article/4a7792c523ab4b5984893b38c988d70b
At least we don't need to waste time debunking these mythologies coming from the president. I'm sure the GOP will be spouting them here and there still.
It is my understanding that in Great Britain there is hostility to Polish Immigrants.
If blond haired blue eyed Poles were seeking to enter the US rather than brown people from Central America what would the discussion about immigration be like?
PVW writes...
“You support politicians who are anti-immigrant, and you either ignore this or sometimes explicitly support their actions. Someone who supports anti-immigrant actions is anti-immigrant.”
“The fact that you yourself come from immigrant stock, and that you are able to say things like "a humane, orderly process is necessary to protect the immigrants" while at the same time supporting cruel anti-immigrant actions makes it worse, not better.”
As I said before, I'm never quite sure whether you're dishonest or willfully blind, but I'm also not sure it matters.”
What does matter is willful ignorance on the part of people who will not accept what is written, or stated by others, if it doesn’t match up with their own conceit.
I have been, and will continue to be, a proponent for Legal Immigration. What is happening at the border is not legal, and hardly represents a welcoming introduction to America.
Without rules, regulations, preparation, and knowledge as to who the people coming are, you have chaos. Chaos is what you get when Republicans, Democrats, and Presidents cannot get a consensus on whether or not today is Tuesday.
STANV said:
It is my understanding that in Great Britain there is hostility to Polish Immigrants.
If blond haired blue eyed Poles were seeking to enter the US rather than brown people from Central America what would the discussion about immigration be like?
"Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?" Trump said, according to these people, referring to countries mentioned by the lawmakers.
Trump then suggested that the United States should instead bring more people from countries such as Norway, whose prime minister he met with Wednesday.
mtierney said:
What does matter is willful ignorance on the part of people who will not accept what is written, or stated by others, if it doesn’t match up with their own conceit.
I have been, and will continue to be, a proponent for Legal Immigration. What is happening at the border is not legal, and hardly represents a welcoming introduction to America.
Without rules, regulations, preparation, and knowledge as to who the people coming are, you have chaos. Chaos is what you get when Republicans, Democrats, and Presidents cannot get a consensus on whether or not today is Tuesday.
People presenting themselves at the border as migrants requesting asylum are following the legal process. That's the topic of conversation, in all of the "border crisis" talk.
mtierney said:
PVW writes...
“You support politicians who are anti-immigrant, and you either ignore this or sometimes explicitly support their actions. Someone who supports anti-immigrant actions is anti-immigrant.”“The fact that you yourself come from immigrant stock, and that you are able to say things like "a humane, orderly process is necessary to protect the immigrants" while at the same time supporting cruel anti-immigrant actions makes it worse, not better.”
As I said before, I'm never quite sure whether you're dishonest or willfully blind, but I'm also not sure it matters.”
What does matter is willful ignorance on the part of people who will not accept what is written, or stated by others, if it doesn’t match up with their own conceit.
I have been, and will continue to be, a proponent for Legal Immigration. What is happening at the border is not legal, and hardly represents a welcoming introduction to America.
Without rules, regulations, preparation, and knowledge as to who the people coming are, you have chaos. Chaos is what you get when Republicans, Democrats, and Presidents cannot get a consensus on whether or not today is Tuesday.
You have no idea how much you don't know.
What is happening at the border is very legal.
Educate yourself.
https://theweek.com/articles/973376/there-no-immigration-crisis
mtierney said:
PVW writes...
“You support politicians who are anti-immigrant, and you either ignore this or sometimes explicitly support their actions. Someone who supports anti-immigrant actions is anti-immigrant.”“The fact that you yourself come from immigrant stock, and that you are able to say things like "a humane, orderly process is necessary to protect the immigrants" while at the same time supporting cruel anti-immigrant actions makes it worse, not better.”
As I said before, I'm never quite sure whether you're dishonest or willfully blind, but I'm also not sure it matters.”
What does matter is willful ignorance on the part of people who will not accept what is written, or stated by others, if it doesn’t match up with their own conceit.
I have been, and will continue to be, a proponent for Legal Immigration. What is happening at the border is not legal, and hardly represents a welcoming introduction to America.
Without rules, regulations, preparation, and knowledge as to who the people coming are, you have chaos. Chaos is what you get when Republicans, Democrats, and Presidents cannot get a consensus on whether or not today is Tuesday.
Trump aggressively reduced legal immigration. Furthermore, Trump, as a matter of policy, kidnapped children from their parents in an attempt to deter immigration. Several hundred of these children have yet to be reunited with their parents, because Trump and his officials made no provision for that. Because the cruelty was the point.
Whatever pleasant lies you tell yourself about what you believe, your actions are those of someone who opposes immigration and supports cruelty against children.
PVW said:
Whatever pleasant lies you tell yourself about what you believe, your actions are those of someone who opposes immigration and supports cruelty against children.
Aha, the conceit of someone who thinks the only truth is his own is blinding.
mtierney said:
PVW said:
Whatever pleasant lies you tell yourself about what you believe, your actions are those of someone who opposes immigration and supports cruelty against children.
Aha, the conceit of someone who thinks the only truth is his own is blinding.
If I missed the posts where you went on the record denouncing Trump's immigration policies, please bring them to my attention.
Is there any kind of trade agreement or economic partnership, either through private corporations or government arrangements that could be made with countries in Central America that could offer both financial security and protection for a segment of the population?
I'm not suggesting this as a solution to some of the issues discussed on this thread but as we restrict trade with countries that we impose sanctions upon, is there any way we can strengthen partnerships and trade in our continent, eventually expanding our cooperation with countries in South America? I realize we have tried such agreements but it seems like now is the time for a concentrated effort.
Climate change will most likely effect migration between our two continents so it seems inevitable that we will face joint challenges. Our land and oceans will probably be similarly effected. I realize this may be over simplifying it but why not turn our attention South?
Morganna said:
Is there any kind of trade agreement or economic partnership, either through private corporations or government arrangements that could be made with countries in Central America that could offer both financial security and protection for a segment of the population?
I'm not suggesting this as a solution to some of the issues discussed on this thread but as we restrict trade with countries that we impose sanctions upon, is there any way we can strengthen partnerships and trade in our continent, eventually expanding our cooperation with countries in South America? I realize we have tried such agreements but it seems like now is the time for a concentrated effort.
Climate change will most likely effect migration between our two continents so it seems inevitable that we will face joint challenges. Our land and oceans will probably be similarly effected. I realize this may be over simplifying it but why not turn our attention South?
Absolutely. Emigrating is a big deal. To pick up and leave your friends, family, and community and move to a place you've never been, where you know few people, and which requires a long, dangerous trip to get to, is something most people don't want to do. Investing in making it easier for people to stay, which most want to do anyway, would be a good use of our resources and benefit everyone. I mentioned the problem of gang violence earlier, but to your point on climate change, many of the current migrants are being driven by continuing fallout from hurricanes.
If the past four years were a novel instead of real life, there's be something satisfying in having Trump's downfall come thanks to a pandemic after all his anti-immigrant demagoguery. This idea that a border can actually be a wall that hermetically seals a country off from the outside is as short-sighted as the idea that individual action alone can save you from disease. The spread of Covid, and other zoonotic diseases can't be separated from our mistreatment of the environment and its accompanying habitat destruction, and stopping its spread has required collective social action as scientists collaborate globally and countries and communities adapt to limit spread. Similarly, you can't just talk about migration without talking about climate change and economics and all the other collective challenges and activities that span borders.
Morganna said:
Is there any kind of trade agreement or economic partnership, either through private corporations or government arrangements that could be made with countries in Central America that could offer both financial security and protection for a segment of the population?
The Biden adminstraton sent envoys to Mexico and Guatemala this week to discuss ways to stem the migrant flow. Juan Gonzalez, the National Security Council's senior director for the western hemisphere, will meet with Guatemalan officials and representatives from civil society and non-governmental organizations.
"Gonzalez’ aim in Guatemala is to “address root causes of migration in the region and build a more hopeful future in the region."
Building on what Morgana wrote, perhaps the time as come again to seek “all hands on deck” approach” to the exodus. Problem with the planning and execution of such peaceful and productive approach, reflective of climate change, however, is what do we tell those hundreds of thousands of people now on the border?
As far as the legality of seeking asylum here by crossing the border into the United States, my guess is the law did not anticipate bus, boat, and truck loads of migrants arriving simultaneously.
“On 2 December 1823, President James Monroe delivered the 'Monroe Doctrine' which would eventually influence Secretary of State James G. Blaine to push for the creation of the Pan-American Conferences. In this speech, President Monroe stated that any further attempts by the Europeans to colonize the Americas (North, Central and South) would be seen as an act of aggression that would include intervention by the United States. This doctrine was set in place in order to ensure that the colonies that were currently in place (and independent) would remain that way and to ensure that the Americas would be able to remain independent of each other and yet bond each other together at the same time. This unofficial union of the countries that comprised North, Central and South America would allow for relationships to slowly develop between the countries.
“In an attempt to solidify the idea of the "Western Hemisphere", Secretary of State James. G. Blaine determined that if the United States were to be the country that put forward the idea of a Union of the Americas, the United States would hold the upper hand and would be able to guide the agenda as well as carry heavy weight in major decision-makings. Another reason for this union was for the United States to be financially benefited from the other countries – this is an aspect that the other countries soon realized, and through the conferences, attempted to prevent this from occurring.
However, when President Garfield was assassinated, Blaine was removed from his post and the process for creating the Pan-American Conference was slowed down. Eventually, through the lobbying of Congress, Blaine was able to schedule the first Pan- American Conference in January 1889.
Pan-Americanism
First used in the New York Evening Post in 1888, the term "Pan-Americanism" rose. Pan-Americanism refers to the movement toward commercial, social, economic, military, and political cooperation among the nations of North, Central, and South America. The term was largely used the following year at the first Pan-American Conference in Washington D.C.[2]”
mtierney said:
Building on what Morgana wrote, perhaps the time as come again to seek “all hands on deck” approach” to the exodus. Problem with the planning and execution of such peaceful and productive approach, reflective of climate change, however, is what do we tell those hundreds of thousands of people now on the border?
As far as the legality of seeking asylum here by crossing the border into the United States, my guess is the law did not anticipate bus, boat, and truck loads of migrants arriving simultaneously.
“On 2 December 1823, President James Monroe delivered the 'Monroe Doctrine' which would eventually influence Secretary of State James G. Blaine to push for the creation of the Pan-American Conferences. In this speech, President Monroe stated that any further attempts by the Europeans to colonize the Americas (North, Central and South) would be seen as an act of aggression that would include intervention by the United States. This doctrine was set in place in order to ensure that the colonies that were currently in place (and independent) would remain that way and to ensure that the Americas would be able to remain independent of each other and yet bond each other together at the same time. This unofficial union of the countries that comprised North, Central and South America would allow for relationships to slowly develop between the countries.
“In an attempt to solidify the idea of the "Western Hemisphere", Secretary of State James. G. Blaine determined that if the United States were to be the country that put forward the idea of a Union of the Americas, the United States would hold the upper hand and would be able to guide the agenda as well as carry heavy weight in major decision-makings. Another reason for this union was for the United States to be financially benefited from the other countries – this is an aspect that the other countries soon realized, and through the conferences, attempted to prevent this from occurring.
However, when President Garfield was assassinated, Blaine was removed from his post and the process for creating the Pan-American Conference was slowed down. Eventually, through the lobbying of Congress, Blaine was able to schedule the first Pan- American Conference in January 1889.
Pan-Americanism
First used in the New York Evening Post in 1888, the term "Pan-Americanism" rose. Pan-Americanism refers to the movement toward commercial, social, economic, military, and political cooperation among the nations of North, Central, and South America. The term was largely used the following year at the first Pan-American Conference in Washington D.C.[2]”
let's be clear. there are not "hundreds of thousands" of migrants currently massed at the border.
and there are newer laws than whatever the hell mtierney is talking about.
She just regurgitates the parrot siht from her conservative news outlets. Apparently lying has no consequences for these “Christians” ...
Hundreds of thousands are the amounts amassed in the other guy’s bank account
There was a cosmetic company founded by a woman that used natural ingredients from all over the world and practiced fair trade. The closest one I could find today is called Origins but I haven't established if that one is free trade, however it's that concept that is running through my mind as one type of business that could work in Central America. One of my first business plans was a cosmetic company with ingredients not tested on animals before it was a thing.
This company Origins has done some amazing things with climate change as an important consideration of their mission.
IT'S OUR NATURE TO DO GOOD
We believe it’s our responsibility to give back to nature and we endeavor to make choices that help reduce our impact on the planet.
TREE PLANTING
TODAY
We’re tree-obsessed and to-date, we’ve planted and pledged 1,307,847 tree saplings (and counting) to help Green the Planet.
TOMORROW
We’re thinking big and we’ve committed to planting over 625,000 trees this year to help offset carbon emissions and combat climate change.
Learn More
MINIMAL PACKAGING
TODAY
All of our cartons are FSC-certified, made with paperboard from responsibly managed forests. 55% of our packaging by weight is recyclable, refillable, reusable, recycled or recoverable.
TOMORROW
We’re on it—by 2023 our goal is to ensure that at least 80% of our packaging by weight is recyclable, refillable, reusable, recycled or recoverable.
CONSCIOUS MANUFACTURING
TODAY
We use 100% renewable electricity to manufacture our products in primary facilities. Because it’s the right thing to do.
TOMORROW
But we’re not done. By the end of 2020, we will achieve zero-industrial waste-to-landfill for all global manufacturing and distribution sites.2
OUR STORES
- We prioritize the use of low-emitting, recyclable and/or recycled materials in all our new store fixtures and visual merchandising.
- We’re using materials that emit no or low VOCs and/or contain post-industrial recycled content for the wall finishings in our new stores.
- Counters in our new stores are made with FSC certified paper and/or post-consumer recycled paper; they are also Greenguard certified.
- Origins is proud to power all of our freestanding stores in North America with 100 percent renewable electricity.
Thanks for the positive response! Too bad other posters lack constructive thoughts.
ml1 said:
let's be clear. there are not "hundreds of thousands" of migrants currently massed at the border.
Don’t take my word for it.....
ml1’s says...”Honest coverage of this issue wouldn't lay the blame on a White House that doesn't have the means to solve it alone. Honest coverage would be identifying GOP obstruction in Congress as the main culprit.”
News flash:
The Democrats are in the majority.
Another news flash:
Democrats should have built on the foundation that was in place, rather than a egocentric need to upturn the system and confuse everyone — certainly the immigrant rush has been laid right at Joe’s feet.