Tara Reade should get a fair hearing, and we should look into any complaints she has filed a the time. But Biden also deserves a fair shake. What we should not do: - ram it through like the republicans did with Dr Ford & Kavanaugh - endlessly string this out just for smearing either side (as the Republicans will do, because that's just who they are) - jump to conclusions about who is right and who is wrong (there likely will not be evidence either way, so it will come down to who is more believable)
Mika Brzezinski did extensive coverage of the Reade allegations this morning. I didn't feel she editorialized, she shared many of the headlines and quotes that have surfaced in the last few days. It covered an entire block so anyone researching might want to look at it.
What did you think of the Vox article that PVW linked to?
Oh, I read it. I also read a statement from her ex-husband in a contentious divorce proceedings back in that time. The references to “the incident” appear in documents and confirmed as known by the ex.
From Vox:
“Reade’s supporters on the left see the Democratic establishment’s response to her accusation as hypocritical, particularly when compared to how party leaders rallied around Christine Blasey Ford when she testified in the Brett Kavanaugh confirmation hearings. In Ford’s case, there was near-universal support for her. Critics on the left say that Democrats should stand up for Reade, and that the “believe women” rallying cry should apply even when it’s not politically convenient.
“But Democrats have largely lined up behind Biden. Top Barack Obama alumni have said that they vetted Biden fully in 2008 and found no evidence of the kind of behavior Reade describes. Rising Democratic star Stacey Abrams recently said, “I believe Joe Biden.” Sen. Elizabeth Warren penned an op-ed with Biden. Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand, seen as a Me Too leader for her push to oust Sen. Al Franken after he was accused of sexual misconduct, headlined an event for Biden this week.
“Many liberals have said now and during the Franken saga that the Democratic Party has held itself to a ridiculous standard. Donald Trump has admitted on tape to what Reade accuses Biden of doing and still denies the accounts of more than 20 women who have accused him of sexual misconduct. And given that the goal of beating Trump is paramount this fall, some see dwelling on an accusation that has yet to be definitively proven as a damaging distraction.”
Oh, I read it. I also read a statement from her ex-husband in a contentious divorce proceedings back in that time. The references to “the incident” appear in documents and confirmed as known by the ex.
The ex’s 1996 statement: “On several occasions petitioner related a problem that she was having at work regarding sexual harassment in U.S. Senator Joe Biden’s office.”
Oh, I read it. I also read a statement from her ex-husband in a contentious divorce proceedings back in that time. The references to “the incident” appear in documents and confirmed as known by the ex.
From Vox:
“Reade’s supporters on the left see the Democratic establishment’s response to her accusation as hypocritical, particularly when compared to how party leaders rallied around Christine Blasey Ford when she testified in the Brett Kavanaugh confirmation hearings. In Ford’s case, there was near-universal support for her. Critics on the left say that Democrats should stand up for Reade, and that the “believe women” rallying cry should apply even when it’s not politically convenient.
“But Democrats have largely lined up behind Biden. Top Barack Obama alumni have said that they vetted Biden fully in 2008 and found no evidence of the kind of behavior Reade describes. Rising Democratic star Stacey Abrams recently said, “I believe Joe Biden.” Sen. Elizabeth Warren penned an op-ed with Biden. Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand, seen as a Me Too leader for her push to oust Sen. Al Franken after he was accused of sexual misconduct, headlined an event for Biden this week.
“Many liberals have said now and during the Franken saga that the Democratic Party has held itself to a ridiculous standard. Donald Trump has admitted on tape to what Reade accuses Biden of doing and still denies the accounts of more than 20 women who have accused him of sexual misconduct. And given that the goal of beating Trump is paramount this fall, some see dwelling on an accusation that has yet to be definitively proven as a damaging distraction.”
It’s about politics — not justice.
you're missing something really important -- the FBI completely shut down any investigation into Kavanaugh's past. Liberals are saying that Reade's allegation SHOULD be investigated.
And in the end, Kavanaugh's obvious lying under oath, and his unhinged demeanor were the reasons for voting against his confirmation, not the accusations against him, even if deemed credible, were never going to be provable.
Like I said. She was affected by the trauma her entire life, perhaps sub-consciously.
Did any one posting here, now, question Dr Ford’s allegations?
doesn't anyone reading initial reports of an allegation question them? A rational person gathers the information with an open mind and then decides if the allegation is credible. In the case of Dr. Ford, she seemed credible enough because she had nothing to gain (and a lot to lose) by making her allegation. But even then, there's always a question of recollection after so many years (e.g., could she have been mistaken about which boy it was?)
But there's also the manner in which the accused responds to consider. Kavanaugh was obviously lying at many points during his testimony, and at other times his explanations made no logical sense. That and his belligerence and entitled attitude made him and his denials far less credible than Ford.
His response showed someone who does not have the temperament, honesty or integrity to qualify for a seat on the SCOTUS.
The document, which was filed in the California Superior Court and dated March 25, 1996, neither says who committed the harassment nor does it reference Reade's more recent allegation of sexual assault.
Dronen's filing had been written while contesting a restraining order Reade filed against him after filing for divorce, the Tribune reported.
Oh, I read it. I also read a statement from her ex-husband in a contentious divorce proceedings back in that time. The references to “the incident” appear in documents and confirmed as known by the ex.
From Vox:
“Reade’s supporters on the left see the Democratic establishment’s response to her accusation as hypocritical, particularly when compared to how party leaders rallied around Christine Blasey Ford when she testified in the Brett Kavanaugh confirmation hearings. In Ford’s case, there was near-universal support for her. Critics on the left say that Democrats should stand up for Reade, and that the “believe women” rallying cry should apply even when it’s not politically convenient.
“But Democrats have largely lined up behind Biden. Top Barack Obama alumni have said that they vetted Biden fully in 2008 and found no evidence of the kind of behavior Reade describes. Rising Democratic star Stacey Abrams recently said, “I believe Joe Biden.” Sen. Elizabeth Warren penned an op-ed with Biden. Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand, seen as a Me Too leader for her push to oust Sen. Al Franken after he was accused of sexual misconduct, headlined an event for Biden this week.
“Many liberals have said now and during the Franken saga that the Democratic Party has held itself to a ridiculous standard. Donald Trump has admitted on tape to what Reade accuses Biden of doing and still denies the accounts of more than 20 women who have accused him of sexual misconduct. And given that the goal of beating Trump is paramount this fall, some see dwelling on an accusation that has yet to be definitively proven as a damaging distraction.”
It’s about politics — not justice.
you're missing something really important -- the FBI completely shut down any investigation into Kavanaugh's past. Liberals are saying that Reade's allegation SHOULD be investigated.
And in the end, Kavanaugh's obvious lying under oath, and his unhinged demeanor were the reasons for voting against his confirmation, not the accusations against him, even if deemed credible, were never going to be provable.
She didn't miss anything, she just did what I said she would -- took out of the article only that which she sees as damaging to Democrats and favorable to Republicans. I'm surprised I was able to pique her into responding at all, but not at all surprised at the content of her response.
Like I said. She was affected by the trauma her entire life, perhaps sub-consciously.
Did any one posting here, now, question Dr Ford’s allegations?
doesn't anyone reading initial reports of an allegation question them? A rational person gathers the information with an open mind and then decides if the allegation is credible. In the case of Dr. Ford, she seemed credible enough because she had nothing to gain (and a lot to lose) by making her allegation. But even then, there's always a question of recollection after so many years (e.g., could she have been mistaken about which boy it was?)
But there's also the manner in which the accused responds to consider. Kavanaugh was obviously lying at many points during his testimony, and at other times his explanations made no logical sense. That and his belligerence and entitled attitude made him and his denials far less credible than Ford.
His response showed someone who does not have the temperament, honesty or integrity to qualify for a seat on the SCOTUS.
I would have thought that you would have figured out by now that Ms. Mtierney doesn't take in all the words in your responses to her. Those questions she asked were posted 8 minutes after your post which already addressed her point.
I would have thought that you would have figured out by now that Ms. Mtierney doesn't take in all the words in your responses to her. Those questions she asked were posted 8 minutes after your post which already addressed her point.
I kind of assumed she doesn't read most of my posts. Every hundredth or so gets a response. And usually some sort of passive-aggressive non-response response at that.
doesn't anyone reading initial reports of an allegation question them? A rational person gathers the information with an open mind and then decides if the allegation is credible. In the case of Dr. Ford, she seemed credible enough because she had nothing to gain (and a lot to lose) by making her allegation. But even then, there's always a question of recollection after so many years (e.g., could she have been mistaken about which boy it was?)
But there's also the manner in which the accused responds to consider. Kavanaugh was obviously lying at many points during his testimony, and at other times his explanations made no logical sense. That and his belligerence and entitled attitude made him and his denials far less credible than Ford.
His response showed someone who does not have the temperament, honesty or integrity to qualify for a seat on the SCOTUS.
I thought this summed it up perfectly.
I had another thought. In the case of Kavanaugh, after the televised hearing, the decision was in the hands of Congress and based on the numbers we knew he would probably be approved. And it is important to note this is a lifetime appointment.
In the case of Biden, whether or not there will be a formal hearing, the decision will be in the hands of the voters, so Republicans should understand that fairness in the minds of the public will determine the outcome. And we would be looking at 4 years, with the opportunity of impeachment if later evidence surfaced.
Tara Reade should get a fair hearing, and we should look into any complaints she has filed a the time. But Biden also deserves a fair shake. What we should not do:
- ram it through like the republicans did with Dr Ford & Kavanaugh
- endlessly string this out just for smearing either side (as the Republicans will do, because that's just who they are)
- jump to conclusions about who is right and who is wrong (there likely will not be evidence either way, so it will come down to who is more believable)