Pope Francis, Catholics, and Christians in the news worldwide

Catholic publication with a good obituary.

https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/ratzinger-benedict-pope-euology-sex-abuse-vatican-ii

Conclusion: "After the 'long nineteenth century' (as characterized by John O’Malley) of the Catholic Church was brought to an end by the calling of the council in 1959, Benedict XVI was in some ways the last pope of the delayed conclusion of the twentieth-century Catholic Church, a short century beginning with John XXIII and Vatican II and ending in 2013 with the election of the first non-European and non-Mediterranean pope. Joseph Ratzinger was a brilliant theologian and public intellectual, but also a provocative cleric who as pope had the courage to risk unpopularity. He will remain one of the most widely published and widely read popes in Church history, and likely one of the most controversial. Few committed Catholics will be indifferent or dispassionate about him."

He's with Fulton Sheen now.

Klinker said:

He's with Fulton Sheen now.

And we have our first miracle attributed to Pope Benedict, the resurrection of Mr. Klinker on MOL.

nohero said:

Klinker said:

He's with Fulton Sheen now.

And we have our first miracle attributed to Pope Benedict, the resurrection of Mr. Klinker on MOL.

Who cares?

mtierney said:

Into the hands of God….

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/pope-benedict-xvi-dies-at-95/

You demean yourself every time you reference this steaming pile of manure. Very unclassy introducing it in this context.

Ross Douthat somehow managed to write an entire article on Benedict without mentioning his problems with the issue of sexual abuse.

I find it shocking that the NYT would hire a columnist who is apparently so poorly informed.

GoSlugs said:

Ross Douthat somehow managed to write an entire article on Benedict without mentioning his problems with the issue of sexual abuse.

I find it shocking that the NYT would hire a columnist who is apparently so poorly informed.

not likely poorly performed. More likely dishonest.

I find commenting on the prejudiced beliefs of others to be foolhardy, so here is the story…

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/01/opinion/pope-benedict-xvi-catholic-church.html

mtierney said:

I find commenting on the prejudiced beliefs of others to be foolhardy, so here is the story…

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/01/opinion/pope-benedict-xvi-catholic-church.html

Indeed.  A story.  A story that fails to mention the single biggest issue in the man's long career, the issue that led to his resignation.  Some might see that as a significant omission but that would require a level of critical thinking that one does not normally find in a reader of the National Review.

A unique Man, Pope, Retiree, requires one of a kind  funeral arrangements…

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/31/world/europe/pope-benedict-funeral.html

mtierney said:

A unique Man, Pope, Retiree, requires one of a kind  funeral arrangements…

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/31/world/europe/pope-benedict-funeral.html

Not so much one-of-a-kind as first-of-its-kind, and a template for the future.

mtierney said:

I find commenting on the prejudiced beliefs of others to be foolhardy, so here is the story…

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/01/opinion/pope-benedict-xvi-catholic-church.html

Coincidentally, I find Ross Douthat's boosting of the prejudiced beliefs of the "backwardist" Catholics to be offensive. His latest column represents the misrepresentations that they (nd apparently Douthat) make in support of their efforts to put up barriers against others in the Church. 

The conclusion of that piece: "All we can say from his strange years as pope emeritus is that the way that Pope Benedict XVI sought to govern the church, to hold it together institutionally and theologically, has been challenged and partly reversed. ... But Joseph Ratzinger the scholar and theologian and writer, Joseph Ratzinger the champion of a certain idea of Catholic Christianity — well, he has only just begun to fight."

mtierney said:

A unique Man, Pope, Retiree, requires one of a kind  funeral arrangements…

I am sure Jesus would have fully approved of these expenditures.  I mean, its not like there are people going hungry in this world, is it?

That said, am I right in thinking that Benedict was more fired than retired?

GoSlugs said:

That said, am I right in thinking that Benedict was more fired than retired?

No, I think that's not correct. The papacy is probably the one job where the person holding it can literally say, "You can't fire me, I quit."

And a much better assessment than the dreck from Douthat is here -

"Despite expending so much of his theological capital in putting the brakes on internal debate in the Church, Pope Benedict XVI will be remembered as a reformer. Why? His brave and historic decision to resign from the papacy in 2013, which set off an earthquake inside the halls of clerical power. It wasn’t just that he became the first pope in some 600 years to renounce the Office of St Peter, which in itself was enough to earn a place in the history books. No, the real legacy of his resignation decision was twofold: he both reformed the office of the papacy by making it much easier for his successors to step down, and opened the way to the Francis pontificate. The resignation of Benedict was a dramatic step towards the demystification of the papacy, a development Francis continued by replacing the older monarchical style of papal governance with a servant-leadership model."

It should be remembered that, "inside baseball"-wise, Francis was the favorite for the papacy when Benedict resigned. So Benedict knew who would follow him.

nohero said:

No, I think that's not correct. The papacy is probably the one job where the person holding it can literally say, "You can't fire me, I quit."

And a much better assessment than the dreck from Douthat is here -

"Despite expending so much of his theological capital in putting the brakes on internal debate in the Church, Pope Benedict XVI will be remembered as a reformer. Why? His brave and historic decision to resign from the papacy in 2013, which set off an earthquake inside the halls of clerical power. It wasn’t just that he became the first pope in some 600 years to renounce the Office of St Peter, which in itself was enough to earn a place in the history books. No, the real legacy of his resignation decision was twofold: he both reformed the office of the papacy by making it much easier for his successors to step down, and opened the way to the Francis pontificate. The resignation of Benedict was a dramatic step towards the demystification of the papacy, a development Francis continued by replacing the older monarchical style of papal governance with a servant-leadership model."

It should be remembered that, "inside baseball"-wise, Francis was the favorite for the papacy when Benedict resigned. So Benedict knew who would follow him.

Surely you can't be arguing that Benedict intended to clear the way for his ideological nemesis?

My understanding is that the situation with the abuse scandal had become untenable and that the Cardinals knew that Benedict, with his hands dirty from his malfeasance in Germany, would only continue to make things worse.

Taken from nohero’s post above. 

“he both reformed the office of the papacy by making it much easier for his successors to step down, and opened the way to the Francis pontificate”

I think he was the first pope to meet with the victims, and the first one to apologize. Also the first to launch a process of reform, even though the liberal Catholics were critical of him. 

Jaytee said:

Taken from nohero’s post above. 

“he both reformed the office of the papacy by making it much easier for his successors to step down, and opened the way to the Francis pontificate”

I think he was the first pope to meet with the victims, and the first one to apologize. Also the first to launch a process of reform, even though the liberal Catholics were critical of him. 

I think this is an extremely optimistic interpretation of his actions.  The recent German inquiry was extremely damning of Ratzinger and the Vatican must have known that info was out there, even if they refused to share it with the proper authorities. 

As for apologies, Benedict apologized in February 2022, years after he was fired and only in the face of the damning evidence from the German inquiry.  Even then, he refused to admit any personal wrong doing, even though that wrong doing had been exhaustively reported in the German inquiry.

GoSlugs said:

Surely you can't be arguing that Benedict intended to clear the way for his ideological nemesis?

My understanding is that the situation with the abuse scandal had become untenable and that the Cardinals knew that Benedict, with his hands dirty from his malfeasance in Germany, would only continue to make things worse.

But that's exactly what he did, he cleared the way for Francis (the "nemesis" part may be what you picked up from some of the "spinners").

Jaytee said:

Taken from nohero’s post above. 

“he both reformed the office of the papacy by making it much easier for his successors to step down, and opened the way to the Francis pontificate”

I think he was the first pope to meet with the victims, and the first one to apologize. Also the first to launch a process of reform, even though the liberal Catholics were critical of him. 

Is that last paragraph a quote from the article, also, because I didn't post that.

Re: Ross Douthat and how the NY Times reporting on the Church goes now, this columnist sums up how I feel about it. 

"The latest instance was the October 12th column by Ross Douthat titled 'How Catholics Became Prisoners of Vatican II'. Published for the 60th anniversary of John XXIII's opening of Second Vatican Council (1962-65), it offered the usual post hoc, propter hoc narrative on Vatican II that is typical of those who identify Catholicism with the trajectories of post-industrial, secularized Western societies and who completely ignore the global Church. In keeping with his personal style, Douthat also made no effort to give a fair presentation of the Council's theology to readers of one of the most important newspapers in the world."

Read more at: https://international.la-croix.com/news/signs-of-the-times/losservatore-americano/16762

nohero said:

Is that last paragraph a quote from the article, also, because I didn't post that.

no it’s not, that was mine. It apparently picked up the font from your post. 

Benedict was most likely God’s Rottweiler as some conservatives claim. A man who tried to stand in the way of reforms, these reforms which were meant to be instated in the sixties by the second Vatican council. It’s all coming to fruition through Francis. 

Jaytee said:

Benedict was most likely God’s Rottweiler as some conservatives claim.

God doesn't really need a dog, he can take care of himself. 

If only Benedict had used his claws and fangs to defend the defenseless.

Slight drift: how do you pronounce Douthat?? I just can’t get past a mumble in my head. 
Return to discussion: Of course, George Pell is strenuously defending Ratzinger/Benedict XVI, upholding his blameless reputation and top-notch academic/theological records. Of course. 

Makes my stomach turn. It’s possible to acknowledge a revered leader had faults but still was inspiring and guiding in other ways… as others here are affirming, not acknowledging the great misjudgement of his career is continuing the hurt and mistreatment of those victims. (And of course Pell knows that from his own experience. *shudder*)

joanne said:

Slight drift: how do you pronounce Douthat?? 

I could tell you how I pronounce Douthat but it's not really suitable for a family website.

Suffice to say, nothing ever comes out of that guy's pen that isn't contemptible and wrong.  He's the sort of low character that you would expect to find scribbling at a rag like the National Review, not the Gray Old Lady.

In my mind, his name sounds a little like Doubt-that but then I think ‘that can’t be right’, and try other ways…

More on the pope emeritus  by Douthat….

https://dnyuz.com/2023/01/01/the-first-afterlife-of-pope-benedict-xvi/

GoSlugs said:

God doesn't really need a dog, he can take care of himself. 

If only Benedict had used his claws and fangs to defend the defenseless.

Because of the conservative Catholics Benedict ended up with fleas and ticks.. 

mtierney said:

More on the pope emeritus  by Douthat….

https://dnyuz.com/2023/01/01/the-first-afterlife-of-pope-benedict-xvi/

It's not "more", it's the same column you posted yesterday, just from a different website. 

nohero said:

mtierney said:

I find commenting on the prejudiced beliefs of others to be foolhardy, so here is the story…

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/01/opinion/pope-benedict-xvi-catholic-church.html

Coincidentally, I find Ross Douthat's boosting of the prejudiced beliefs of the "backwardist" Catholics to be offensive. His latest column represents the misrepresentations that they (and apparently Douthat) make in support of their efforts to put up barriers against others in the Church. 

The conclusion of that piece: "All we can say from his strange years as pope emeritus is that the way that Pope Benedict XVI sought to govern the church, to hold it together institutionally and theologically, has been challenged and partly reversed. ... But Joseph Ratzinger the scholar and theologian and writer, Joseph Ratzinger the champion of a certain idea of Catholic Christianity — well, he has only just begun to fight."

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/253258/funeral-of-pope-benedict-xvi