I think a very important component in the abortion issue is the often “missing link”: Men. It’s been said that while a woman can only have one child a year, a man can impregnate 100 women.
What do Catholic women do over there, caught in a medical conundrum?? My adopted sister’s Catholic, educated by nuns, still prefers to pray in Latin (which she understand). Her daughter’s first pregnancy was found to be non-viable midway - the baby’s brain had stopped growing and would never resume. All her obstetrics team recommended termination, but they don’t believe in it. Her body was too healthy and gave no indication it would complete a miscarriage. In the USA, what’s she to do???
Here, tearfully, she consulted a medical priest. Amongst other things, they prayed, accepted that it was not a judgement nor a ‘test’, and accepted Gd had given her advisors and support to enable her to get through this, fix what could be fixed and try again. No shame, no sin.
Had the termination. Discovered there were genetic issues to overcome. Now is mother to the brightest button of a 6yr old girl you could imagine.
In 1950, it is estimated that 1.5 million illegal abortions were performed in the US. The population of the US in 1950 was 151 million so that works out to a little less than 1,000 abortions per 100,000 Americans.
In 2020 991,000 legal abortions were performed in the United States. With the increase in population, that works out to approximately 282 legal abortions per 100,000 Americans.
The obvious conclusion here is that cheap, easy, abundant birth control results in far fewer unwanted pregnancies. The effects of "female promiscuity" are hard to quantify but they certainly don't seem to have increased the numbers.
I've long believed that mtierney doesn't give a fig about "babies" but, instead, is motivated by a desire to insure that women do not enjoy their sexuality.
I don't know what life experiences led to this pathology but, in addition to my scorn, mtierney also has my pity.
What do Catholic women do over there, caught in a medical conundrum?? My adopted sister’s Catholic, educated by nuns, still prefers to pray in Latin (which she understand). Her daughter’s first pregnancy was found to be non-viable midway - the baby’s brain had stopped growing and would never resume. All her obstetrics team recommended termination, but they don’t believe in it. Her body was too healthy and gave no indication it would complete a miscarriage. In the USA, what’s she to do???
Here, tearfully, she consulted a medical priest. Amongst other things, they prayed, accepted that it was not a judgement nor a ‘test’, and accepted Gd had given her advisors and support to enable her to get through this, fix what could be fixed and try again. No shame, no sin.
Had the termination. Discovered there were genetic issues to overcome. Now is mother to the brightest button of a 6yr old girl you could imagine.
You can provide all the reasonable examples you want to these people, but you can't reason people out of opinions they didn't reason themselves into. It's all baby murder to them. All of it. It's a death cult, women are just collateral damage.
As for holding men accountable - well, that's just impossible to enforce.
Why? Are you saying men are animals, and, as such, get a pass?
“Slam, bam, thank you, mam,” mentality? Where is the equality?
In reality, just because a man COULD get 100 women pregnant a week, it doesn't mean a man actually has that much sex. I mean, haven't so-called conservatives been lamenting the loss of "real men" recently? Tucker Carlsen wants us to tan our balls to increase our testosterone, others sells us little blue pills to get it up, the consensus among the right is that "manhood" is dying out and that we should be more aggressive and less empathetic to women, banging every woman that moves, but only if those women are "pure" or "chaste." Check out the Incel movement. Check out Purity Culture. If anyone doesn't give a flying fig about equality, it's "cons."
Some of us are trying to spread a culture of equal respect, partly by changing the language (because language and thought evolve hand-in-hand) but primarily by understanding that, as a man, women are human beings and not meatsacks with wombs destined to carry our offspring, whether we decide to stay with them or not.
Conservatives usually blame women who have abortions as “loose” or irresponsible… but life begins at ejaculation. They will never tell the men to be careful.. they just claim that it’s “God’s will” the man’s sperm fertilized the woman’s egg…
Why? Are you saying men are animals, and, as such, get a pass?
“Slam, bam, thank you, mam,” mentality? Where is the equality?
This may have been your experience of sexuality but I can assure you that many people have different, better experiences. Your argument is doomed because your premise is faulty.
Mtierney, I’m confused. In my 20s, a man broke into my apartment while I was asleep. He stole from me, trashed my study, then crept into my bed and tried to rape me. Are you implying that somehow I’m responsible for his actions even now, because we didn’t catch him??
I fought back, injured him, chased him out, screamed for help, called the police… what more could I do?
Mtierney, I’m confused. In my 20s, a man broke into my apartment while I was asleep. He stole from me, trashed my study, then crept into my bed and tried to rape me. Are you implying that somehow I’m responsible for his actions even now, because we didn’t catch him??
I fought back, injured him, chased him out, screamed for help, called the police… what more could I do?
You have the tolerance of a saint to be so restrained in your discussions with MT.
Mtierney, I’m confused. In my 20s, a man broke into my apartment while I was asleep. He stole from me, trashed my study, then crept into my bed and tried to rape me. Are you implying that somehow I’m responsible for his actions even now, because we didn’t catch him??
I fought back, injured him, chased him out, screamed for help, called the police… what more could I do?
Joanne, the abortion ban under discussion is not focused on the crime of rape — seems to me you did all the right things. What did the police do?
This may have been your experience of sexuality but I can assure you that many people have different, better experiences. Your argument is doomed because your premise is faulty.
Kind of similar to multiple posts, doesn’t it?
Today’s Times mini puzzle opener was a no-brainer. What is that stuff, anyway?
As for holding men accountable - well, that's just impossible to enforce.
Why? Are you saying men are animals, and, as such, get a pass?
“Slam, bam, thank you, mam,” mentality? Where is the equality?
Nothing of the sort I am saying that at the end of the day, it is a good deal easier for a man to walk away from an unplanned pregnancy than it is for a woman. And in the wonderful new world of forced child bearing, I suppose we will see more women resorting to desperate measures
I am all for efforts and initiatives to hold men accountable. Are you planning to use the full weight of the law to make men pay child support - as many states will use the full weight of the law to force women to carry pregnancies to term regardless of the circumstances.
Since “hooking up” and online anonymous “dating” , is acceptable by generations of women since Roe passed, has that promiscuous behavior, without responsibility for unintended consequences, given men a free pass? I would like women to be as active promoting the issue of male responsibility in their protests.
Yes, I am old-fashioned, perhaps, but not wrong about mutual respect being a vital required ingredient for relationships.
Why is promiscuity a large part of the issue if some statistics state that 73% of abortions are performed on married women?
Instead of focusing on our loose morals, why not cut women some slack and consider that the average woman is fertile for about 40 years. With contraceptives not completely reliable isn't it possible that an accident might occur?
I think a very important component in the abortion issue is the often “missing link”: Men. It’s been said that while a woman can only have one child a year, a man can impregnate 100 women. Why are pro-abortion activists and demonstrators predominantly composed of women? They carry the burden/child, but males are the other half of the parenting
Since “hooking up” and online anonymous “dating” , is acceptable by generations of women since Roe passed, has that promiscuous behavior, without responsibility for unintended consequences, given men a free pass? I would like women to be as active promoting the issue of male responsibility in their protests.
Yes, I am old-fashioned, perhaps, but not wrong about mutual respect being a vital required ingredient for relationships.
mtierney, this is your perfect post.
encapsulates everything that is wrong with your attitudes.
from a lack of (self-)awareness to a complete misreading of history, it covers it all.
I've posted this twitter thread before, so if some of you are getting tired of it, I apologize.
I think it's the best explanation of a man's role in the abortion issue.
I’m a mother of six, and a Mormon. I have a good understanding of arguments surrounding abortion, religious and otherwise. I've been listening to men grandstand about women's reproductive rights, and I'm convinced men actually have zero interest in stopping abortion. Here's why…
Sorry for late reply: was out for several hours after posting.
I wanted to add: I’m 66 next month. I still jump and scream if people approach me silently, and I’m unaware they’re nearby. I can still feel that man’s cold hand and knee between my legs. But I’ve been married for 35years. The horror of rape and abuse doesn’t go away, and shouldn’t be compounded by unwanted pregnancy. In my case, my upstairs neighbour raced downstairs in about 5 mins. And 6 tall, strong police officers crowded my kitchen within 20-30 mins, calming me, collecting evidence & statements, calling alerts etc. Within 2 hours they had a couple of suspects but none had bite marks on their wrists and to be released… the trail went cold after a few days, and that was it. Thank Heaven he didn’t complete his intentions, and my self-defense training kicked in.
But that’s not the point. Rape is always opportunistic and frequently about misplaced frustration, power and anger. The victim often has nothing to do with the perpetrator’s causes. Saying a pregnancy resulting from rape/violent rape is Gd’s will, and Gd is Love so it’s All Good is a perversion of scripture and of victim experience. I’m mentioning this because most States don’t want to make an exception for terminations in cases of rape or incest. And also because earlier you wrote we need to get promiscuous men to stop. Well, I don’t know how many other women this man attacked. And your Supreme Court appears to be wanting to limit access to contraception. So how do we stop men??
Before anyone comments on the link, let me admit the legal thought processes covered are way out of my wheelhouse. I am confident, however, that the legal minds on this thread will clarify the complexity of the Supreme Court’s actions — both about abortion and gun rights.
It’s of special interest since it points out both Democrat and Conservative participation in the process.
Before anyone comments on the link, let me admit the legal thought processes covered are way out of my wheelhouse. I am confident, however, that the legal minds on this thread will clarify the complexity of the Supreme Court’s actions — both about abortion and gun rights.
It’s of special interest since it points out both Democrat and Conservative participation in the process.
I have no idea what point you think is being made via the article, so it's not possible to comment without guessing, and that's a waste of time.
[Edited to add] I will note that holding anyone other than the GOP primarily responsible for the current court is like Paul Surovell blaming countries other than Russia for the Ukraine war.
That bathtub joke is about as tired as a joke can be. I think Mtierney has posted it here at least a half dozen times. It might have been worth a chuckle, the first time but now it just elicits a moan.
My favorite response to it from the reddit joke thread is as follows.
But by offering those specific items, they are implying that those are the only items to be used. Otherwise, why hand them to him?
"Communicating badly, then acting smug when you're misunderstood is not cleverness."
Never pay attention to locker room talk.