Stanford Rape Case
Nobody said that drinking justifies the crime. I just happen to believe that there are some people who need to avoid getting drunk because what the drink might uncover is too ugly.
Robert_Casotto said:
Thank God Judges like this guy have to run for re-election in California. Here, we're ususally stuck with them for life.
Usually, but not always. A Superior Court Judge is appointed for a limited term. (5 Years?). Only if reappointed does he or she get tenure until retirement age of 70. And Judges can be impeached.
There are constituencies in this country where a Judge who gave a College Athlete a severe sentence would, as a result, not be re-elected.
I do not for a single second believe that simply being drunk would turn a "decent" kid into a rapist. Really? Strip an unconscious girl, rape her, stick foreign objects into her vagina? You think THAT is the action of a decent young man? No freaking way. Even under the influence. On some level he thought what he was doing was okay. This is not the same as two drunk teens having sex.
tjohn said:
Nobody said that drinking justifies the crime. I just happen to believe that there are some people who need to avoid getting drunk because what the drink might uncover is too ugly.
Hopefully this defendant has discovered that about himself at a young age and will atone by living an exemplary life.
PeggyC said:
I do not for a single second believe that simply being drunk would turn a "decent" kid into a rapist. Really? Strip an unconscious girl, rape her, stick foreign objects into her vagina? You think THAT is the action of a decent young man? No freaking way. Even under the influence. On some level he thought what he was doing was okay. This is not the same as two drunk teens having sex.
If a person harbors demons that might be released when they are drunk, does that make that person a monster?
tjohn said:
PeggyC said:
I do not for a single second believe that simply being drunk would turn a "decent" kid into a rapist. Really? Strip an unconscious girl, rape her, stick foreign objects into her vagina? You think THAT is the action of a decent young man? No freaking way. Even under the influence. On some level he thought what he was doing was okay. This is not the same as two drunk teens having sex.
If a person harbors demons that might be released when they are drunk, does that make that person a monster?
Yes, I think so.
tjohn said:
Oh, I agree totally. The father should have consulted with a PR person when crafting that letter. I can believe that Brock Turner is basically a decent person. However, while under the influence of the demon drink, he did something terrible and he can't undo it and has to pay the price.
I read a post by a young man that rang true to me. He said that intoxication unlocks your inner tendencies that you'd edit, filter, or control while sober. Intoxication does not make you do something that is not already part of your inner self. It just unlocks the filters and throws away the keys.
I agree completely. And while I am not an expert in what is being done to control campus rapes, I do believe that any solutions that don't ultimately address the problem of drunkenness will be incomplete.
shoshannah said:
tjohn said:
Oh, I agree totally. The father should have consulted with a PR person when crafting that letter. I can believe that Brock Turner is basically a decent person. However, while under the influence of the demon drink, he did something terrible and he can't undo it and has to pay the price.
I read a post by a young man that rang true to me. He said that intoxication unlocks your inner tendencies that you'd edit, filter, or control while sober. Intoxication does not make you do something that is not already part of your inner self. It just unlocks the filters and throws away the keys.
PeggyC said:
I do not for a single second believe that simply being drunk would turn a "decent" kid into a rapist. Really? Strip an unconscious girl, rape her, stick foreign objects into her vagina? You think THAT is the action of a decent young man? No freaking way. Even under the influence. On some level he thought what he was doing was okay. This is not the same as two drunk teens having sex.
Exactly what she said.
tjohn said:
I agree completely. And while I am not an expert in what is being done to control campus rapes, I do believe that any solutions that don't ultimately address the problem of drunkenness will be incomplete.
How do you "address the problems of drunkenness"? We tried prohibition and that ended in a nightmare of violence and crime.
It will be a slow, eternal process. But things do change gradually. For example, a stronger law enforcement response to drunk driving has helped in this regard.
With campus drinking, I guess you need two buddy systems. One to protect drunks from becoming victims and one to prevent other drunks from doing bad things (kind of like taking away the car keys).
Klinker said:
tjohn said:
I agree completely. And while I am not an expert in what is being done to control campus rapes, I do believe that any solutions that don't ultimately address the problem of drunkenness will be incomplete.
How do you "address the problems of drunkenness"? We tried prohibition and that ended in a nightmare of violence and crime.
Can we say privilege? Please... if this was a kid from the hood, with a public defendant, he would have received a very severe term in jail. Even a start athlete without the means and a minority would get treated very differently even if there is no actual proof as it was in this case.
http://www.tosavealife.com/teen-sent-prison-rape-didnt-commit-opens-brock-turner-sentence/#.V1g6whTCiqs.facebook
boomie said:
tjohn I find your opinions in this case shameful and ridiculous.
Why is that? Did I say that Turner shouldn't be punished?
I just do not live in some dream world where people will someday treat each other decently without some programs to make that happen. I accept that it is an effort that never ends.
I live in a world where basically decent people can do terrible things.
shoshannah said:
I read a post by a young man that rang true to me. He said that intoxication unlocks your inner tendencies that you'd edit, filter, or control while sober.
That's what our pharmacology professor told us.
Alcohol is a depressant. But it works first on the higher level brain centers, the centers of judgment and inhibitions.
tjohn said:
boomie said:
tjohn I find your opinions in this case shameful and ridiculous.
Why is that? Did I say that Turner shouldn't be punished?
I just do not live in some dream world where people will someday treat each other decently without some programs to make that happen. I accept that it is an effort that never ends.
I live in a world where basically decent people can do terrible things.
I find your opinions on this offensive. If this man committed murder while he was drunk or beat the living crap out of his girlfriend or held up a liquor store and shot the owner or molested a child, would you have such compassion?
marylago said:
tjohn said:
boomie said:
tjohn I find your opinions in this case shameful and ridiculous.
Why is that? Did I say that Turner shouldn't be punished?
I just do not live in some dream world where people will someday treat each other decently without some programs to make that happen. I accept that it is an effort that never ends.
I live in a world where basically decent people can do terrible things.
I find your opinions on this offensive. If this man committed murder while he was drunk or beat the living crap out of his girlfriend or held up a liquor store and shot the owner or molested a child, would you have such compassion?
The judge who let the Afluenza kid go on probation after killing 4 people and leaving one severely handicap did...
pmartinezv said:
marylago said:
tjohn said:
boomie said:
tjohn I find your opinions in this case shameful and ridiculous.
Why is that? Did I say that Turner shouldn't be punished?
I just do not live in some dream world where people will someday treat each other decently without some programs to make that happen. I accept that it is an effort that never ends.
I live in a world where basically decent people can do terrible things.
I find your opinions on this offensive. If this man committed murder while he was drunk or beat the living crap out of his girlfriend or held up a liquor store and shot the owner or molested a child, would you have such compassion?
The judge who let the Afluenza kid go on probation after killing 4 people and leaving one severely handicap did...
Don't even get me started on that one... That was a travesty.
But let's face it, rich white young men fare far better in our justice system than most other people.
marylago said:
But let's face it, rich white young men fare far better in our justice system than most other people.
Exactly. Let's call this for what it is, please.
marylago said:
tjohn said:
boomie said:
tjohn I find your opinions in this case shameful and ridiculous.
Why is that? Did I say that Turner shouldn't be punished?
I just do not live in some dream world where people will someday treat each other decently without some programs to make that happen. I accept that it is an effort that never ends.
I live in a world where basically decent people can do terrible things.
I find your opinions on this offensive. If this man committed murder while he was drunk or beat the living crap out of his girlfriend or held up a liquor store and shot the owner or molested a child, would you have such compassion?
Look, if I was the victim's father, I might be serving time for murder right now. However, I don't really think that piling on Turner or his family or the judge is part of any particular solution - well, in the case of the judge, maybe the problem of disparate sentencing. I have not heard stories suggesting that Turner has a history of being a predator. I am pretty sure he didn't wake up that day thinking he would go to a party, get really drunk and rape some women.
Sometimes a pillar of society will be found out to have committed horrible crimes. Friends and family will say they can't believe it, they never thought, they never suspected. But the evil had been there all along, hidden. Perhaps this one got caught before his crimes, hidden by his achievements, started to add up.
I also want to add that I have a close friend who's daughter was date raped in college a little over a year ago. She woke up, naked, in his apartment. She surmised that he drugged her drink. Because she was scared and confused, she went home and showered before she reported it. This criminal has never been charged because there was no physical evidence. My friend and her husband are sick over this Stanford case.
pmartinezv said:
marylago said:
But let's face it, rich white young men fare far better in our justice system than most other people.
Exactly. Let's call this for what it is, please.
Poor defendants of color rarely get the benefit of having their crimes attributed to the perils of binge drinking or the culture of campus promiscuity.
tjohn said:
marylago said:
tjohn said:
boomie said:
tjohn I find your opinions in this case shameful and ridiculous.
Why is that? Did I say that Turner shouldn't be punished?
I just do not live in some dream world where people will someday treat each other decently without some programs to make that happen. I accept that it is an effort that never ends.
I live in a world where basically decent people can do terrible things.
I find your opinions on this offensive. If this man committed murder while he was drunk or beat the living crap out of his girlfriend or held up a liquor store and shot the owner or molested a child, would you have such compassion?
Look, if I was the victim's father, I might be serving time for murder right now. However, I don't really think that piling on Turner or his family or the judge is part of any particular solution - well, in the case of the judge, maybe the problem of disparate sentencing. I have not heard stories suggesting that Turner has a history of being a predator. I am pretty sure he didn't wake up that day thinking he would go to a party, get really drunk and rape some women.
So, because it was premeditated, and because he has no prior history, he should get a pass? If she was your daughter/sister/wife, would you still give him a pass?
If he was my son, although I would go to bat for him to get a low sentence, I would at least hope that he learned a lesson. Otherwise, the next time it happens, and it likely will, it will be on me as I would have aided him in having a next time by not learning anything from the first. And what makes us think this is the first time? Perhaps this is the first time he got caught?
Stoughton said:
pmartinezv said:
marylago said:
But let's face it, rich white young men fare far better in our justice system than most other people.
Exactly. Let's call this for what it is, please.
Poor defendants of color rarely get the benefit of having their crimes attributed to the perils of binge drinking or the culture of campus promiscuity.
Or get leniency for being their first time, or for not having a record.
Case in point, what about the life of this 14yr old who THREW A ROCK and who is being charge AS AN ADULT?
http://krqe.com/2016/06/03/14-year-old-charged-with-felony-after-throwing-rocks-at-police-in-trump-rally/
"Griego has no prior criminal history. The judge set his bond at $10,000 cash or surety. He’s currently being held at the juvenile detention center."
Whoever said that the law was blind, was white.
Who knows. I don't really care what happens to Turner other than that he not receive any special treatment. I find more interesting the discussion of how to deal with campus rape cases where alcohol (versus premeditation / deliberate drugging) is a factor. I am saying that when you pickle a group of young people in alcohol, sometimes, bad things are going to happen. The question, then, is how to prevent this.
tjohn said:
Who knows. I don't really care what happens to Turner other than that he not receive any special treatment. I find more interesting the discussion of how to deal with campus rape cases where alcohol (versus premeditation / deliberate drugging) is a factor. I am saying that when you pickle a group of young people in alcohol, sometimes, bad things are going to happen. The question, then, is how to prevent this.
First step: Ensure the prevailing culture & legal system does not allow drunkenness to be an acceptable excuse or mitigating factor for a violent act of rape.
Most rape cases do not get reported because women have been taught that they must have done something wrong if it happened to them. I daresay that there are a LOT of women you know that were the victim of at least date rape.
We do not know if Turner has done this before and we probably never will. We probably would know if he had committed some other heinous act, where the reporting statistics are much greater.
mjh said:
tjohn said:
Who knows. I don't really care what happens to Turner other than that he not receive any special treatment. I find more interesting the discussion of how to deal with campus rape cases where alcohol (versus premeditation / deliberate drugging) is a factor. I am saying that when you pickle a group of young people in alcohol, sometimes, bad things are going to happen. The question, then, is how to prevent this.
First step: Ensure the prevailing culture & legal system does not allow drunkenness to be an acceptable excuse or mitigating factor for a violent act of rape.
Amen!
I think the judge was swayed by the many letters asking for mercy. Included is a retired former federal prosecutor, former teachers and childhood friends.
Also, the county probation department recommended less than a year in county jail.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-stanford-rape-brock-turner-letters-20160606-snap-htmlstory.html
http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/index.ssf/2016/06/what_went_into_judges_lenient.html