Post Election Hate Crimes
What can't be lost in this tit for tat--short, out of context videos showing this, short, out of context videos showing that--is that the Republicans nominated a man who ran on a platform of xenophobia, racism, sexism and anti-Semitism. Then over 60 million Americans voted for him.
Some useful advice for peacefully challenging racism. Although the second link is titled "Islamophobic" the advice is useful for any type of harassment.
https://www.splcenter.org/20150126/speak-responding-everyday-bigotry
http://www.themarysue.com/bystanders-harassment-guide/
dave23 said:
What can't be lost in this tit for tat--short, out of context videos showing this, short, out of context videos showing that--is that the Republicans nominated a man who ran on a platform of xenophobia, racism, sexism and anti-Semitism. Then over 60 million Americans voted for him.
No word if any additional context is being provided in treating the 74 year old's split head.
Sorry I owe you an answer to your question.
No I can't agree at all. Both are acts of vandalism. But one seems inspired by Trump's repeated denigration of Muslims. I don't remember Clinton calling for a ban on whites entering the country.
In the one case some petty jackass decided that the best response to Trump's election was to harass the people who feel most threatened and vulnerable by that election. So yes I believe it was a Trump supporter who scrawled his name on the Muslim prayer room at NYU.
I see no evidence to connect Clinton supporters to the vandalism in NOLA. I see someone acting out of anger and fear of what a Trump presidency means for blacks.
Both actions were repugnant. And both should be punished if possible. But I see one action SPECIFICALLY inspired by the Trump campaign.
Jackson_Fusion said:
I'm sure you'll agree that you can no more blame Trump supporters for some unknown person writing his name on a door than you can blame Hillary supporters for painting "die whites die" on the Lee memorial in NOLA, right?
mrincredible said:
Sorry I owe you an answer to your question.
No I can't agree at all. Both are acts of vandalism. But one seems inspired by Trump's repeated denigration of Muslims. I don't remember Clinton calling for a ban on whites entering the country.
In the one case some petty jackass decided that the best response to Trump's election was to harass the people who feel most threatened and vulnerable by that election. So yes I believe it was a Trump supporter who scrawled his name on the Muslim prayer room at NYU.
I see no evidence to connect Clinton supporters to the vandalism in NOLA. I see someone acting out of anger and fear of what a Trump presidency means for blacks.
Both actions were repugnant. And both should be punished if possible. But I see one action SPECIFICALLY inspired by the Trump campaign.
Jackson_Fusion said:
I'm sure you'll agree that you can no more blame Trump supporters for some unknown person writing his name on a door than you can blame Hillary supporters for painting "die whites die" on the Lee memorial in NOLA, right?
So no one saw, in either case, who put the graffiti up. In one case, it was at notorious Trump hotbed NYU. The other, found after an anti trump protest.
One, we totally know who did it. The other, a real head scratcher.
In one case, a candidate's name was written. We clearly know what that meant- a vicious threat.
In the other case, it's not so clear. "Die whitey die" can mean so many things. Very nuanced.
Thanks for responding.
Jackson_Fusion said:
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/black-lives-matter-protester-attacks-lives-matter-foe-74-article-1.2869067
No word if any additional context is being provided in treating the 74 year old's split head.
I guess that proves that Trump is an inclusive, open, anti-xenophobic Republican president-in-waiting. You got me again!
In today's atmosphere I think the Trump graffiti is actually more threatening. A Muslim has a lot more to fear today than a white person.
Black people have been subject to decades of racism not even counting the slavery Lee fought to preserve. They don't need Hillary Clinton to stir up any anger against white people but Trump's election could certainly do it.
The Trump jackass who wrote on the Muslim prayer room door? What indignities and suffering have been visited upon him (or her) by their fellow Muslim students? How disenfranchised the vandal must feel to lash out at their oppressors.
And lest we stray from the point, keep your mind open please and think about what atmosphere exists in the entire nation. And what the Trump election means for that atmosphere.
mrincredible said:
In today's atmosphere I think the Trump graffiti is actually more threatening. A Muslim has a lot more to fear today than a white person.
Black people have been subject to decades of racism not even counting the slavery Lee fought to preserve. They don't need Hillary Clinton to stir up any anger against white people but Trump's election could certainly do it.
The Trump jackass who wrote on the Muslim prayer room door? What indignities and suffering have been visited upon him (or her) by their fellow Muslim students? How disenfranchised the vandal must feel to lash out at their oppressors.
And lest we stray from the point, keep your mind open please and think about what atmosphere exists in the entire nation. And what the Trump election means for that atmosphere.
I missed the story where the "Trump supporter" NYU person was caught. Who was it? How did they catch them? I confess that I suspected perhaps it may have been as much written by a "Trump supporter" as the ridiculous tar and feather flyer you posted at the start of the thread, but I guess not! What outlet is reporting this?
In any case, the atmosphere where the name "Trump" is more objectionable than "die whitey die" must be one where sweet Mother Earth is now being burned legally. See? Democracy doesn't always suck!
I am interested in your thoughts on how incitement to racial killing is somewhat understandable because Robert E. Lee and stuff. Tell me more.
I must say I was surprised when Michael Moore flipped his **** today when someone suggested that people who voted for Trump were racists. Who knew he was such a supremacist.
Jackson_Fusion said:
I must say I was surprised when Michael Moore flipped his **** today when someone suggested that people who voted for Trump were racists. Who knew he was such a supremacist.
Michael Moore was mad because he had been trying to explain for the past year why people in the rust belt were going to vote for Trump... but few seemed to listen. Trump told the rust belt that he would impose a large tax on cars if their companies moved to Mexico so that no one would buy their cars if they left the USA. The rust belt workers voted based on that false sense of job security.
It's not that MM thinks that Trump's isn't a racist, or that Trump didn't appeal to racists, it's that there were economic-hope factors at play that made formerly blue states go red.
sprout said:
Jackson_Fusion said:
I must say I was surprised when Michael Moore flipped his **** today when someone suggested that people who voted for Trump were racists. Who knew he was such a supremacist.
Michael Moore was mad because he had been trying to explain for the past year why people in the rust belt were going to vote for Trump... but few seemed to listen. Trump told the rust belt that he would impose a large tax on cars if their companies moved to Mexico so that no one would buy their cars if they left the USA. The rust belt workers voted based on that false sense of job security.
It's not that MM thinks that Trump's isn't a racist, or that Trump didn't appeal to racists, it's that there were economic-hope factors at play that made formerly blue states go red.
Thanks. I guess the part where he said "they're not racists" threw me off. But! He is a guy who is more wrong than right quite often.
Jackson_Fusion said:
sprout said:
Jackson_Fusion said:
I must say I was surprised when Michael Moore flipped his **** today when someone suggested that people who voted for Trump were racists. Who knew he was such a supremacist.
Michael Moore was mad because he had been trying to explain for the past year why people in the rust belt were going to vote for Trump... but few seemed to listen. Trump told the rust belt that he would impose a large tax on cars if their companies moved to Mexico so that no one would buy their cars if they left the USA. The rust belt workers voted based on that false sense of job security.
It's not that MM thinks that Trump's isn't a racist, or that Trump didn't appeal to racists, it's that there were economic-hope factors at play that made formerly blue states go red.
Thanks. I guess the part where he said "they're not racists" threw me off. But! He is a guy who is more wrong than right quite often.
MM was trying to have people actually understand why Trump would win by explaining real-life nuances at play. He knew that the statement that "all Trump supporters are racists" was a stereotype, and was trying to get people to see beyond that... in order to understand what Clinton was really up against. This is what he tries to do in his documentaries -- get the viewer to see the world from various other people's points of view.
One interesting thing about his attempts to have people understand these nuances was that right-wingers would take his quotes out of context, and said "Look --- MM's pro-Trump!!". It looks like you fell for one of those edits.
MM was very anti-Trump, and even indicated that he would break his promise never to vote for a Clinton due to how horrible Trump was.
I guess you can keep the La "trump hat" story up- was a crime, but not by anyone wearing a trump hat.
She's been arrested for filing a false report. Way to bring us together.
aaaaannnd another one. Hoax, that is
http://www.mndaily.com/article/2016/11/umpd-not-involved-in-handcuffed-university-student
Jackson_Fusion to suggest Trump's unprecedented torrent of racism, religious hatred and misogyny hasn't unleashed a wave of hate that includes violence is to deny reality. Because some of the examples cited above are either hoaxes or can't be tied to Trump's words is irrelevant, as there have been beatings at his rallies and elsewhere that he clearly inspired.
Is it unfair to lay this repugnant beating from last August at Trump's doorstep ? Or does their history of racial violence absolve Trump?
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2016/05/16/brothers-plead-guilty-beating-homeless-immigrant/jpbvoo23yr2sntgKwtQ6KI/story.html
Might Trump's inital refusal to condemn the attack be construed as a message of support? Or telling supporters to kick the crap out of those they don't agree with, or to shoot Hillary Clinton (just a brief selection) possibly have real world consequences? How did someone who didn't advocate racist violence become the first Presidential candidate to gain endorsments from a rainbow coaltion of white supremicists?
http://motherjones.com/politics/2016/09/trump-supporters-neo-nazis-white-nationalists-kkk-militias-racism-hate
Please give comparable examples on the part of Democratic candidates (not those loosely tied to Black Lives Matter) that could be tied to subsequent attacks. I could
Alright, before the critique, I withdraw my use of the word "wave." That isn't to say there haven't been incidents where the perpetrators are on record as being emboldened by Trump's rhetoric.
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/10-hate-crimes-inspired-donald-trumps-hateful-rhetoric
If there is no uptick in violence inspired by Trump, hopefully the groups who he denigrated will realize their fears are unjustified.
we need to avoid being so credulous. Many of these stories will turn out to be hoaxes. And then when too many people cry "wolf," the real stories will be disbelieved. Like this one:
Mr. Blackcat's friend in California, who is Filipino, said that his sister came out of a supermarket and was shouted at to "go back to China!"
Some of this sh*t is real.....
blackcat said:
Mr. Blackcat's friend in California, who is Filipino, said that his sister came out of a supermarket and was shouted at to "go back to China!"
Some of this sh*t is real.....
She should have said "go back to Europe".
Jackson_Fusion said:
Not another one!
http://www.phillyvoice.com/police-no-official-report-ugly-racial-incident-del-gas-station/
Just a few more before you get to 60 million. Keep up the good work!
dave23 said:
Jackson_Fusion said:
Not another one!
http://www.phillyvoice.com/police-no-official-report-ugly-racial-incident-del-gas-station/
Just a few more before you get to 60 million. Keep up the good work!
Never claimed all of Hillary's supporters were trying to incite racial terror. The vast, vast majority aren't out rioting, beating people in the street, and reporting fake crimes.
More likely that they vent harmlessly on message boards or whatever.
Be careful painting people with too broad a brush, no matter how many fires, broken windows, and faked tales of terror you hear and see in the media. People are generally good Dave!
Cousin Casotto was wearing a Devils jersey in Queens yesterday and was shouted at to "Go back to Jersey".
I say that all the time about people that boast that their families were one of the first off the Mayflower. They were the first illegals....
dave said:
blackcat said:
Mr. Blackcat's friend in California, who is Filipino, said that his sister came out of a supermarket and was shouted at to "go back to China!"
Some of this sh*t is real.....
She should have said "go back to Europe".
Robert_Casotto said:
Cousin Casotto was wearing a Devils jersey in Queens yesterday and was shouted at to "Go back to Jersey".
At least he got to choose whether or not to be a Devils fan.
Here's some more reprehensible behavior from some Trump supporters and the terrific community response.
And these Trump supporters have been in the news but it bears repeating. Trump can now disavow and condemn them but it was his racist campaign that gave them a stronger voice.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/
If you voted Trump you stood with these people.
Oh hey, I know this thread fell into the memory hole as a lot of the "hate crimes" ended up being fake, which is disappointing for those hoping to get people all upset.
As it turns out however there has been systematic repression of hate activity reporting, and shockingly (shockingly!!!!) it comes from an organization so very many credulous people have come to trust as their one stop "hate crime hysteria" source.
https://www.google.com/amp/nypost.com/2016/12/05/report-buried-trump-related-hate-crimes-against-white-kids/amp/?client=safari
St. Morris, why have you forsaken us?
SPLC #fakenews
Jackson_Fusion said:
Oh hey, I know this thread fell into the memory hole as a lot of the "hate crimes" ended up being fake, which is disappointing for those hoping to get people all upset. ...
Sometimes threads stop getting attention because they slip down the list, not because the topic isn't still relevant.
Some clown threatened a woman in hijab in NYC the other day. She was an off-duty NYPD officer - so he's a loser. That's only one of many current examples.
I hear your anger and disappointment .
I am not sure why I started this thread. I'm scared about what the next four years holds for people who don't look like me. I hope I would be courageous enough to stand with someone who was being mistreated for their religion, ethnic background, disability or political affiliation.
I don't know if these attacks are increasing in frequency in the post election period but I do know that the worst thing we could do is ignore them. Look for facts, yes. Expect law enforcement to do its job, yes. But also don't dismiss these stories and the people who are telling them. Or worse just decide there is nothing we can do.
George W Bush called on the country to not lash out at Muslims in the horrible wake of the September 11th attacks. I respected him for that move. I think it's time for Trump to make his own statement denouncing anyone who would invoke his name to attack, insult or demean someone. But we the people have a responsibility here to watch out for each other now matter who is being attacked to speak out. I want to keep this discussion polite and civil but I think this is a discussion worth having.
Jackson again I hope you're right and that in four years we can look back in relief that this was an anomaly and not the thin end of a wedge in our society.
And I don't see why you're so dismissive of the flyer. It doesn't matter how crude or immature it is. It expresses a hateful and vile sentiment. It contributes to an atmosphere and attitude that normalizes that kind of behavior.