Post Election Hate Crimes
Jackson_Fusion said:
http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/311500-ivanka-trump-children-harassed-on-jetblue-flight-report
And the story says:
An “out-of-control passenger” was “verbally berating” the 35-year-old daughter of President-elect Donald Trump and “jeering” at her children, according to TMZ.
“Your father is ruining the country,” the JetBlue passenger said to Trump, the entertainment news site reports.
“Why is she on our flight? She should be riding private,” the man, who was apparently holding his own kid in his arms, then exclaimed.
Another passenger on the flight out of John F. Kennedy International Airport told the site that Trump “ignored the guy and tried distracting her kids with crayons” before the man was escorted off the flight. As he was removed, the man reportedly yelled, “You’re kicking me off for expressing my opinion?”
Okay, so an abusive jerk was kicked off a plane, for harassing two public figures (since the story indicates that Jared Kushner was also there with his wife and children). That's what should have happened, not only for the couple and their family, but for the benefit of all of the other passengers.
Not sure of its relevance to the hate crime discussion.
Many of the stories are not hoaxes.
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2016/12/20/jama-forgives-bruchard-risch/
Tom_Reingold said:
nohero said:
(2) Assume the fake stories delegitimize every other claim (What appears to be the "Zoinks/Gilgul" approach).
In today's post-fact world, anyone who has ever been wrong, even once, is entirely untrustworthy. This includes the entire body of scientists throughout history. So that leaves absolutely no one to be trusted. How can a person assert anything in that context?
Not necessarily true. Trump repeatedly and blatantly lies in the face of facts and was still elected and is deemed trustworthy by many. Fact checking means nothing; lies are acceptable; the news is a farce; fact checking is dead because many wish to be FIRST instead of RIGHT.
@kibbegirl, I think you and I agree and are using different words to express the same thing. Trump and many others distrust climate science because some scientific theories have turned out to be untrue. Have you noticed how much people distrust meteorologists? The accuracy of forecasts is improving, but people speak as if it is worsening. There has been a lot of betrayal, but scientists are not to blame, especially when you see what the scientific process is and how it works.
Tom_Reingold said:
nohero said:
(2) Assume the fake stories delegitimize every other claim (What appears to be the "Zoinks/Gilgul" approach).
In today's post-fact world, anyone who has ever been wrong, even once, is entirely untrustworthy. This includes the entire body of scientists throughout history. So that leaves absolutely no one to be trusted. How can a person assert anything in that context?
Fortunately Tom, I can say I've never been wrong. I can further say that, therefore, you can trust me.
Jackson_Fusion said:
http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/311500-ivanka-trump-children-harassed-on-jetblue-flight-report
This article saddened me but that the same time I thought, why did she not stand up for herself especially while her children were with her? At the very least engage the person in conversation or an actual argument to whatever they are griping about. Otherwise, to me, it appears Mrs. Trump thinks citizens are beneath her and not worth engaging in conversation. How in the world can you understand the whole of society if one does not engage in conversation with the whole of society?
Sitting back in the corner of the table watching people (as all the current political news photographs concur), certainly benefits her psyche for awhile, but her father is about to be the next president. She has no excuse for her simple presence kicking an unarmed opinionated passenger off a flight and she is long past the point of this being the first time it happens.
I can't help but think...toughen up buttercup. I've had to do it and so have many others. No one has ever kicked an opinionated person off a flight for me to my knowledge, especially the man that refused to allow me, a female, to sit next to him, nor would I expect them to. An opportunity to teach children the realities of being the relative of a highly publicized businessman...ahem politician.
mrincredible said:
Fortunately Tom, I can say I've never been wrong. I can further say that, therefore, you can trust me.
Of course. You are, after all, Mr. Incredible.
And I have lied only once.
CompassRose said:
Jackson_Fusion said:
http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/311500-ivanka-trump-children-harassed-on-jetblue-flight-report
This article saddened me but that the same time I thought, why did she not stand up for herself especially while her children were with her? At the very least engage the person in conversation or an actual argument to whatever they are griping about. Otherwise, to me, it appears Mrs. Trump thinks citizens are beneath her and not worth engaging in conversation. How in the world can you understand the whole of society if one does not engage in conversation with the whole of society?
Sitting back in the corner of the table watching people (as all the current political news photographs concur), certainly benefits her psyche for awhile, but her father is about to be the next president. She has no excuse for her simple presence kicking an unarmed opinionated passenger off a flight and she is long past the point of this being the first time it happens.
I can't help but think...toughen up buttercup. I've had to do it and so have many others. No one has ever kicked an opinionated person off a flight for me to my knowledge, especially the man that refused to allow me, a female, to sit next to him, nor would I expect them to. An opportunity to teach children the realities of being the relative of a highly publicized businessman...ahem politician.
The harasser deleted his tweet where he bragged that his husband was quote chasing them down to harass them.
She's supposed to "engage" these idiots? With what? She is traveling with a 5 year old, a 3 year old and an 8 month old. These brave warriors decided to get in her face while she's trapped in a metal tube and, their words, "harass her", and she's in the wrong for not seeking to "engage" them? She's traveling coach on JetBlue. What a princess!
Teach her 5, 3 and 8 month old the "realities" of what?
These dudes are idiots and scumbags. I would say the same thing if someone got in Chelsea Clinton's face, especially with her kids. Decent people of strong opinions know when and how to express them. Lunatics and adult babies don't.
They were so proud of themselves they started changing their story and deleting tweets when they didn't get the universal acclaim they expected. Whoops, the internet doesn't forget.
You don't engage irrational people because they do irrational things.
Because they are so wealthy, successful, and all knowing, they are flying with the common folk in which they refuse to engage the common folk? It does not matter that the woman's husband may have been irrational. What is the Trump plan for addressing such things? Are they to ignorant to understand that the popular vote went to Clinton? They literally have to have expected such things as this that happened on this flight. They are no more immune than the rest of us.
I'm sure many people think I'm irrational for not letting them block my driveway for any given time frame, if any one of them would have put themselves in my position...constantly having their driveway blocked, they would have come to my same conclusion. Again...toughen up buttercup.
Jackson_Fusion said:
CompassRose said:
Jackson_Fusion said:
http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/311500-ivanka-trump-children-harassed-on-jetblue-flight-report
This article saddened me but that the same time I thought, why did she not stand up for herself especially while her children were with her? At the very least engage the person in conversation or an actual argument to whatever they are griping about. Otherwise, to me, it appears Mrs. Trump thinks citizens are beneath her and not worth engaging in conversation. How in the world can you understand the whole of society if one does not engage in conversation with the whole of society?
Sitting back in the corner of the table watching people (as all the current political news photographs concur), certainly benefits her psyche for awhile, but her father is about to be the next president. She has no excuse for her simple presence kicking an unarmed opinionated passenger off a flight and she is long past the point of this being the first time it happens.
I can't help but think...toughen up buttercup. I've had to do it and so have many others. No one has ever kicked an opinionated person off a flight for me to my knowledge, especially the man that refused to allow me, a female, to sit next to him, nor would I expect them to. An opportunity to teach children the realities of being the relative of a highly publicized businessman...ahem politician.
The harasser deleted his tweet where he bragged that his husband was quote chasing them down to harass them.
She's supposed to "engage" these idiots? With what? She is traveling with a 5 year old, a 3 year old and an 8 month old. These brave warriors decided to get in her face while she's trapped in a metal tube and, their words, "harass her", and she's in the wrong for not seeking to "engage" them? She's traveling coach on JetBlue. What a princess!
Teach her 5, 3 and 8 month old the "realities" of what?
These dudes are idiots and scumbags. I would say the same thing if someone got in Chelsea Clinton's face, especially with her kids. Decent people of strong opinions know when and how to express them. Lunatics and adult babies don't.
They were so proud of themselves they started changing their story and deleting tweets when they didn't get the universal acclaim they expected. Whoops, the internet doesn't forget.
You don't engage irrational people because they do irrational things.
Shouldn't family members be getting Secret Service protection now?
I just figured out who CompassRose is.
I hold no love for any of the Trumps, but someone harassing a young mother with small children on an Airplane ought to be kicked off.
LOST said:
I just figured out who CompassRose is.
I hold no love for any of the Trumps, but someone harassing a young mother with small children on an Airplane ought to be kicked off.
I hope I am hot found to be harrassing a young mother with small children. I am older so maybe that ties into it? I hope I am not kicked off. I will try to find better ways to express.
If you know who I am, then feel free to express any time. I don't want the alternative.
CompassRose said:
Because they are so wealthy, successful, and all knowing, they are flying with the common folk in which they refuse to engage the common folk? It does not matter that the woman's husband may have been irrational. What is the Trump plan for addressing such things? Are they to ignorant to understand that the popular vote went to Clinton? They literally have to have expected such things as this that happened on this flight. They are no more immune than the rest of us.
Why should anyone being harassed on a plane be expected to engage? Also, why shouldn't they take a commercial flight? If they take a private plane then they'll be accused of being very elitist. They take this commercial flight and you disparage them for mixing with the common folk but not engaging the commoners when harassed.
btw - Common is coach. I suspect these passengers were not flying coach.
BG9 said:
CompassRose said:
Because they are so wealthy, successful, and all knowing, they are flying with the common folk in which they refuse to engage the common folk? It does not matter that the woman's husband may have been irrational. What is the Trump plan for addressing such things? Are they to ignorant to understand that the popular vote went to Clinton? They literally have to have expected such things as this that happened on this flight. They are no more immune than the rest of us.
Why should anyone being harassed on a plane be expected to engage? Also, why shouldn't they take a commercial flight? If they take a private plane then they'll be accused of being very elitist. They take this commercial flight and you disparage them for mixing with the common folk but not engaging the commoners when harassed.
btw - Common is coach. I suspect these passengers were not flying coach.
Why should flying coach have anything to do with having or not having opinons?
CompassRose said:
LOST said:
I just figured out who CompassRose is.
I hold no love for any of the Trumps, but someone harassing a young mother with small children on an Airplane ought to be kicked off.
I hope I am hot found to be harrassing a young mother with small children. I am older so maybe that ties into it? I hope I am not kicked off. I will try to find better ways to express.
If you know who I am, then feel free to express any time. I don't want the alternative.
I am so upset about my last post. Again I completely accept the responsibility for my poor wordage. I am not up to the same intellectual level as most of you and I am upset by what may be my own verbal ignorance or wordage. @Lost I apologize. I was simply thinking from my own perspective not that of others. It was in fact inconsiderate and I do acknowledge that. This entire situation over the last few months has me thinking in different and not so PC ways. Your advice to "edit" is good advice and not lost on me.
CompassRose said:
CompassRose said:
LOST said:
I just figured out who CompassRose is.
I hold no love for any of the Trumps, but someone harassing a young mother with small children on an Airplane ought to be kicked off.
I hope I am hot found to be harrassing a young mother with small children. I am older so maybe that ties into it? I hope I am not kicked off. I will try to find better ways to express.
If you know who I am, then feel free to express any time. I don't want the alternative.
I am so upset about my last post. Again I completely accept the responsibility for my poor wordage. I am not up to the same intellectual level as most of you and I am upset by what may be my own verbal ignorance or wordage. @Lost I apologize. I was simply thinking from my own perspective not that of others. It was in fact inconsiderate and I do acknowledge that. This entire situation over the last few months has me thinking in different and not so PC ways. Your advice to "edit" is good advice and not lost on me.
If you recognize that your emotions are making you think a bit differently than you normally would (I think that's what you're saying) I don't find that to be a characteristic of someone of poor intellect.
Lots of people can't see through the coloring their emotions add to their thinking and it's good that you can 
No need to beat yourself up.
But can we at least agree that being rude and disruptive on an airplane isn't what anyone would consider a hate crime?
ml1 said:
But can we at least agree that being rude and disruptive on an airplane isn't what anyone would consider a hate crime?
Agreed. This is where I seem to have lost something? I generally speak up for myself if I feel I am wronged, as my mother and other female models did for themselves when I was a child in their presence. I think my disconnect is that other folks did not or have not had this experience. I truly had never given it much thought until this evening. My father was generally always working his tail off, so unfortunately my experiences with him for this type of experience are non-existent.
I am curious what the the children's father would have done in this same situation and why the children never seem to be in this situation with the father. Is it only a story because we pity the mother more?
Verbally berating known people is not a hate crime. A hate crime is targeting an anonymous person solely for being a member of a group.
dave said:
Verbally berating known people is not a hate crime. A hate crime is targeting an anonymous person solely for being a member of a group.
Correct. However, bringing it up appears to have been successful in derailing the original conversation.
and then wouldn't you know it, the story of a man being "out of control" and "berating" Ivanka and her kids seems to be exaggerated to say the least. Sheesh, if you can't trust TMZ who can you trust.
Seems the harasser don't like getting harassed. But then, who does, really.
http://nypost.com/2017/01/06/man-who-harassed-ivanka-trump-on-flight-gets-quiet-on-air/
Ivanka having to fly coach is punishment enough, for her. Dude should have left her alone.
Maybe time to revive this thread.
I still don't know if hate crimes are actually up since November 2016. But the toxic anti-immigrant rhetoric of the Trump campaign is echoed in the beliefs of a man who took 20 lives this weekend.
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This is great news to get so close to the holidays!
Clearly the burning of Black churches can now be ignored since a Black man has been arrested in connection with one of the latest. This also throws into question the hundreds of church burnings dating back to the mid 19th century. Perhaps they were all the result of disgruntled or mentally ill Black congregants and not the result of terrorist activities undertaken by white racists.
And what about those extra sensitive Muslims (and Sikhs, and Indians and dark skinned Asians) who insist on citing instances of biased treatment and or violence at the hands of aggressively ignorant Americans? Well, clearly they are all over reacting or simply lying.
Dylan Noble is an unarmed man shot and killed by police in California. The media reported that he was inebriated and had traces of cocaine in his system when he was murdered. The cops that killed him will not face charges. Noble is white. This obviously negates the entire Black Lives Matter movement.
I also hear that it's going to be 50 degrees on Christmas Day. So much for all that conspiracy theory claptrap about "winter" and "snow". Spring is on the way!