Police Officer Punches Woman While Arresting Her
mjc said:
apple44 says: "Are people really that tone deaf? Do they not realize you can lose your job and/or your reputation by making dumb statements publicly? Apparently the answer is 'yes.'"
see thread re: Roseanne Barr
But as a counterpoint, see thread re Stephanie Muhammad of the SOMA BOE.
jmitw said:
its relevant because she has a history of violence and may have really been fighting the cops.
She did not JUST give lip.
She WAS engaged in illegal activity..underage possession of alcohol in a no alcohol allowed area....one point she supposedly admitted she was drinking even though the breathalyzer was supposedly negative (maybe she meant she wasn't legally drunk according to the breathalyzer?)
this is why cops think they can punch someone in the head. They figure that a lot of citizens frankly don't care if the cops rough somebody up in the course of making an arrest.
Again, these were summer rent-a-cops.
--- should be worth about $50k in court after all the headaches she will not be able to get rid of. Oh, and the trauma.
She's a hot mess so...
She was giving the cops the business so...
She had alcohol (maybe unopened) on the beach so...
She had priors so...
Assuming all that is true, when do the officers respond with professionalism and good judgement? A officer who cannot contain his anger n public, risking his career and knowing full well that everyone has a phone, clearly doesn't care about his career and/or knows he will not be reprimanded. Let's see which it becomes.
ml1 said:
jmitw said:this is why cops think they can punch someone in the head. They figure that a lot of citizens frankly don't care if the cops rough somebody up in the course of making an arrest.
its relevant because she has a history of violence and may have really been fighting the cops.
She did not JUST give lip.
She WAS engaged in illegal activity..underage possession of alcohol in a no alcohol allowed area....one point she supposedly admitted she was drinking even though the breathalyzer was supposedly negative (maybe she meant she wasn't legally drunk according to the breathalyzer?)
Gives new meaning to the term "punch drunk"
I have a feeling I read an earlier BBC short article about this on my Saturday or Sunday night. Either that, or a similar case, in which the young woman’s mother had originally rung the police to report the suspected drinking. (I’ll admit I haven’t followed the links in this thread)
What appalls me about the situation is that the young woman is almost naked - she can’t hide a weapon anywhere or produce one unexpectedly, and from her prone position it’s unlikely she’s going to suddenly execute a stunning martial arts move. The police response is overwhelmingly out of proportion, and is in line with either violence towards women, child abuse or plain domestic violence.
If this had happened 10, 20 or even 50 years ago community response would have been completely different. How have standards changed towards visible daylight violence in such close proximity to other bystanders???
I’m just astounded and deeply despair for children growing in an age that witnesses such scenes.
jmitw said:
its relevant because she has a history of violence and may have really been fighting the cops.
She did not JUST give lip.
She WAS engaged in illegal activity..underage possession of alcohol in a no alcohol allowed area....one point she supposedly admitted she was drinking even though the breathalyzer was supposedly negative (maybe she meant she wasn't legally drunk according to the breathalyzer?)
Very little of what you're saying is true.
Police officers are not charged with the task of determining guilt and dispensing punishment if and when actual guilt is determined. That's the job of the courts. If the police determined she was in fact in violation of the law, their job is to tell her she is under arrest and why and then detain her- not beat her.
She was also charged with resisting arrest and aggravated assault on a police officer "by spitting bodily fluids".
I'm guessing this is where things took a turn for the worse.
jmitw said:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10215749047188708&set=p.10215749047188708&type=3&theater
she has a history of assault and other crimes.
How is that relevant?
I don't claim to know police protocol inside and out but I'm a first responder and see cops, from time to time, having to get agitated people under control. I've never seen cops throwing punches. They do what seems intuitive - a group of them wrestle the person down and cuff him/her. I don't get the punches.
Setting aside for a moment the question of whether excessive/unnecessary force was used in this particular situation, it troubles me that people these days seem so quick to judge cops harshly, even before all the facts are known. Being a cop is one of the toughest and most dangerous jobs out there, and cops are frequently required to make split-second decisions that could prove fatal if made incorrectly. A bad cop is a bad cop, but not every situation is exactly as it first appears.
unicorn33 said:
Setting aside for a moment the question of whether excessive/unnecessary force was used in this particular situation, it troubles me that people these days seem so quick to judge cops harshly, even before all the facts are known. Being a cop is one of the toughest and most dangerous jobs out there, and cops are frequently required to make split-second decisions that could prove fatal if made incorrectly. A bad cop is a bad cop, but not every situation is exactly as it first appears.
I agree, some people are too quick to judge cops harshly and use bad cases to justify their own bad behavior (see the local board of ed case), but I think that’s all the more reason to punish cops who abuse their authority and use excessive force.
it troubles me more that there are cops who beat people up.
It's a dangerous, stressful job that requires a lot of training. Which is why there are some people who should not be police officers.
unicorn33 said:
Setting aside for a moment the question of whether excessive/unnecessary force was used in this particular situation, it troubles me that people these days seem so quick to judge cops harshly, even before all the facts are known. Being a cop is one of the toughest and most dangerous jobs out there, and cops are frequently required to make split-second decisions that could prove fatal if made incorrectly. A bad cop is a bad cop, but not every situation is exactly as it first appears.
He was punching a drunk, defenseless woman in the head. What kind of split second decision is that?
unicorn33 said:
Being a cop is one of the toughest and most dangerous jobs out there, and cops are frequently required to make split-second decisions that could prove fatal if made incorrectly.
These cops were working on a beach. A F'ing beach. Please don't cite the real stress and danger of some cop's responsibilities to excuse these two Aholes.
unicorn33 said:
Setting aside for a moment the question of whether excessive/unnecessary force was used in this particular situation, it troubles me that people these days seem so quick to judge cops harshly, even before all the facts are known. Being a cop is one of the toughest and most dangerous jobs out there, and cops are frequently required to make split-second decisions that could prove fatal if made incorrectly. A bad cop is a bad cop, but not every situation is exactly as it first appears.
It may be one of the toughest jobs but it is not particularly dangerous. Since the mid 1970's the number of police murders has dropped dramatically.
unicorn33 said:
Setting aside for a moment the question of whether excessive/unnecessary force was used in this particular situation, it troubles me that people these days seem so quick to judge cops harshly, even before all the facts are known.
I think that's because these days, cops are on video where that wasn't the case years ago.
In my opinion, certain videos, like this one, can result in an immediate harsh judgment on cops, and that judgement is reasonable, because the video tells the story. Even if the video is just 1 minute like this one is.
I don't know what unknown facts there could possibly be in this situation that would justify the cop punching this woman in the head, when she is pretty much down already. Whatever happened beforehand, whatever she did or said, whoever she was, etc -- wouldn't justify punching in the head.
I think the fact that they were rent-a-cops says everything. They’re not used to dealing with the public so even the slightest bit of disturbance results in this. It’s sad because good cops everyday work incredibly hard to diffuse situations and they get a bad rap.
unicorn33 said:
. Being a cop is one of the toughest and most dangerous jobs out there,
This is not even close to being true.
ElizMcCord said:
I think the fact that they were rent-a-cops says everything. They’re not used to dealing with the public so even the slightest bit of disturbance results in this. It’s sad because good cops everyday work incredibly hard to diffuse situations and they get a bad rap.
Unfortunately we've seen many similar instances of police overreach by non rent-a-cops. This is not an excuse. How much sense do you need to not beat someone up in a case like this?
drummerboy said:
unicorn33 said:This is not even close to being true.
. Being a cop is one of the toughest and most dangerous jobs out there,
Why do you say it's not true?
<<
Police and sheriff’s patrol officers > Fatal injuries in 2016: 14.6 per 100,000 workers > Total: 108 fatal injuries, 28,740 nonfatal injuries > Most common accident: Intentional injury by other person > Median annual wage: $59,680
Some 108 police and sheriff’s patrol officers died in action in 2016, the most of any year since 2011 and among the most of any profession when adjusted for the number of people in the profession. The most common cause of death on the job were intentional shootings, which claimed the lives of 46 officers last year. Almost as many officers died in car accidents.
Police officers also suffered 28,740 nonfatal injuries, which required a median of nine days off to recover — on day more than the national median recovery time. Police officers often work around the clock, and 1.6% of nonfatal injuries in 2016 occurred at least 12 hours into an officer’s shift.
>>
In 2016, 417 farmers and farm workers died from a work-related injury, resulting in a fatality rate of 21.4 deaths per 100,000 workers.
tjohn said:
In 2016, 417 farmers and farm workers died from a work-related injury, resulting in a fatality rate of 21.4 deaths per 100,000 workers.
No one said it was THE most dangerous job, just ONE OF the most dangerous. Of course there are statistically more dangerous jobs, including loggers and roofers, although that's a rather different, and arguably more predictable, type of danger.
It must be very nerve-wracking for even highly trained officers confronting someone where visibility isn't very clear - it's dark, there's a lot of movement, perhaps someone is concealing a weapon under a coat or in a vehicle and so on. Or when the suspect(s) is physically imposing. One can understand how mistakes can be made.
None of this was the case on this beach in broad daylight.
drummerboy said:
ElizMcCord said:Unfortunately we've seen many similar instances of police overreach by non rent-a-cops. This is not an excuse. How much sense do you need to not beat someone up in a case like this?
I think the fact that they were rent-a-cops says everything. They’re not used to dealing with the public so even the slightest bit of disturbance results in this. It’s sad because good cops everyday work incredibly hard to diffuse situations and they get a bad rap.
Oh I’m not excusing the behavior, far from it. As far as sense, don’t hire a rent a cop.
Smedley said:
unicorn33 said:I think that's because these days, cops are on video where that wasn't the case years ago.
Setting aside for a moment the question of whether excessive/unnecessary force was used in this particular situation, it troubles me that people these days seem so quick to judge cops harshly, even before all the facts are known.
In my opinion, certain videos, like this one, can result in an immediate harsh judgment on cops, and that judgement is reasonable, because the video tells the story. Even if the video is just 1 minute like this one is.
I don't know what unknown facts there could possibly be in this situation that would justify the cop punching this woman in the head, when she is pretty much down already. Whatever happened beforehand, whatever she did or said, whoever she was, etc -- wouldn't justify punching in the head.
Equally despicable are the cops that get behind the Blue Wall of Silence when a cop goes off the rails. For example, the cops in Carteret who were heard off camera, commenting on the cop who is now indicted for excessive force. Their comments reflect knowledge that the cop, also the mayor's brother, had a history of violence.
Yet, they did nothing and would have continued to do nothing had they not been heard on recording.
apple44 says: "Are people really that tone deaf? Do they not realize you can lose your job and/or your reputation by making dumb statements publicly? Apparently the answer is 'yes.'"
see thread re: Roseanne Barr