Old Thread About Election Consequences
ridski said:
Morganna said:Here's his dictatorship flag, he designed it himself.
paulsurovell said:Sorry Paul, that was the best image I could come up with in response to the "rather be a Russian then a Democrat t-shirts.
DaveSchmidt said:I'm referencing the hammer-and-sickle, symbol of the Soviet Union, increasingly used to tar Trump as a traitor and Russian agent. It's reminiscent of the John Birch Society of the 1950s that alleged that Eisenhower was a traitor and a Soviet agent:
paulsurovell said:You sure you want to pursue that analogy? For instance, the foreign policy statement on the society’s website goes like this:
Starting to look like the John Birch Society around here.
Thomas Jefferson wrote in 1801, “I deem the essential principles of our government [to be] peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none.” America would do well to heed this advice by abandoning its current role as global policeman and stop meddling in the affairs of other countries.
In November 1958, [ John Birch Society founder Robert ] Welch sent Buckley and several others a typed copy of “The Politician,” a manuscript he had written. He had numbered each copy and asked that recipients return it to him after they had read it. The work’s most startling conclusion was that Soviet penetration of the United States extended deep into the White House and that one of the USSR’s principal agents was none other than the president of the United States. Dwight Eisenhower, he concluded, was a “dedicated, conscious agent of the Communist conspiracy.”https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/06/william-f-buckley-john-birch-society-history-conflict-robert-welch/
I think we all agree despite the hammer and sickle image, that Trump is not a communist.
Offer him a dictatorship and I think we have a deal.
I believe this design is being considered:
Apparently more centrist Dems had a good primary night. Several had moved toward more progressive ideas for sure, but the actual left of left candidates didn’t fare so well.
Klinker said:
nohero said:After 691 posts, I think we can safely answer "No", not now and, in your case, probably not ever.
May I question "Don't Vote For Hillary people now?
Oh, I disagree, pumpkin.
Regarding today's news about yesterday's primaries.
"Democrats Not Fooled by Misogynists’ Attempts to Slur Progressive Women As Corrupt Establishment Candidates."
https://twitter.com/candicepdx/status/1027218595502120960?s=21
paulsurovell said:
Starting to look like the John Birch Society around here.
Based on what?
Oh, but why address me? I didn't start the thread.
The question is directed to folks, unlike you and I, who chose to not vote for either of the Major Party candidates.
"I have yet to see any evidence that the Green Party’s habit of running doomed third-party campaigns has ever done anything to further its ostensible values. Greens will sometimes justify these runs as movement-building tools, but they never seem to actually build a movement."
LOST said:
Oh, but why address me? I didn't start the thread.
The question is directed to folks, unlike you and I, who chose to not vote for either of the Major Party candidates.
My bad 
nohero said:
"I have yet to see any evidence that the Green Party’s habit of running doomed third-party campaigns has ever done anything to further its ostensible values. Greens will sometimes justify these runs as movement-building tools, but they never seem to actually build a movement."
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/09/opinion/columnists/left-sanders-ocasio-cortez-primaries.html?rref=collection%2Fbyline%2Fmichelle-goldberg
Agreed. Wouldn't they be much better-served by lobbying for planks in the D platform and increased emphasis by the Dems on the environment, which Republican women at least seem to care about?
Wouldn't it be great if the Dems got the support of the Green's but didn't have to do anything to earn it?
"Not as bad as pure evil" may be a fine slogan for pragmatism but it doesn't do much for morale.
Klinker said:
Wouldn't it be great if the Dems got the support of the Green's but didn't have to do anything to earn it?
"Not as bad as pure evil" may be a fine slogan for pragmatism but it doesn't do much for morale.
How’s morale under Trump?
There is never a good time to stand up and protest. I posted this on another thread but maybe it needs to go here. Reasons why we need a third party.
OK. But a third party candidate, at this moment in time, is not going to win. The very idea of yet another third party candidate stealing much needed votes, or non voters who didn’t like “their” personal choices, is in itself a version of white supremacy.
Klinker said:
Wouldn't it be great if the Dems got the support of the Green's but didn't have to do anything to earn it?
"Not as bad as pure evil" may be a fine slogan for pragmatism but it doesn't do much for morale.
Democratic obsessive hostility -- I think we can say hatred -- toward Green Party voters and supporters (i.e. Susan Sarandon) is a perfect formula for losing their votes in 2018 and 2020.
Imagine that you (the Dems) are a guy and the Greens are a girl you REALLY want to date. She says no the first time you ask so do you spend the next 4 years berating her for having the audacity to overlook your countless charms or do you try to show her that you really are the sort of guy she might want to date (assuming that, for metaphorical purposes, you can't just accept the fact she's not interested in you)?
I would suggest that the current Dem strategy is not, perhaps, the wisest approach.
I would suggest that that is an awfully ridiculous analogy. But if we must go with it then...
Let's say that that really pretty girl wakes up one day and finds herself pregnant from a man she spent one night with and realized that it was a mistake. She decides to go get an abortion only to find out that she can't do it easily any more because Roe v. Wade was overturned. She starts to freak out and then she remembers that there was one really great guy she could have gone out with and she calls him up and says....
"hey, I have a little problem and I need your advice, I got pregnant and I want to have an abortion...but it's apparently not so easy any more. They're telling me that I have to go do it in a back alley or something like that. What do you think I should do?
I think you should keep voting green you idiot. And enjoy the baby. "
Anyone who thinks voting green party gets them closer to their goals than voting with the Democrats needs to get their head examined.
sbenois said:
I would suggest that that is an awfully ridiculous analogy. But if we must go with it then...
Let's say that that really pretty girl wakes up one day and finds herself pregnant from a man she spent one night with and realized that it was a mistake. She decides to go get an abortion only to find out that she can't do it easily any more because Roe v. Wade was overturned. She starts to freak out and then she remembers that there was one really great guy she could have gone out with and she calls him up and says....
"hey, I have a little problem and I need your advice, I got pregnant and I want to have an abortion...but it's apparently not so easy any more. They're telling me that I have to go do it in a back alley or something like that. What do you think I should do?
I think you should keep voting green you idiot. And enjoy the baby. "
Anyone who thinks voting green party gets them closer to their goals than voting with the Democrats needs to get their head examined.
And this lack of civility of what is essentially one wing of the Democratic Party to another.........this nose in the air" our crap doesn't smell attitude accompanied by phrases like " have you taken your meds today" or get an MRI" or "get your head examined........rather than attempt a healthy dialogue,
plays right into the hands of what used to be the honorable Republican Party/
sbenois said:
I think you should keep voting green you idiot. And enjoy the baby. "
As I was saying.
If the stakes were not so high, sbenosis's pathetic inability to see that HE* IS THE PROBLEM would be amusing.
* and those like him
Over and over again rational calm appeals are met with whatboutism, hostility, or nonsense. You’re damn right some of us are uncivil.
sbenois is the problem?
I do not see where the Green Party has accomplished anything. I am not sure what they stand for.
Bernie Sanders belongs to a Third Party but understands that he must be in a coalition with the Democrats in order to accomplish anything. He supported Hillary Clinton, not Jill Stein.
As to Kilinger's dating analogy I tried that once, that is, being turned down for a date and trying repeatedly to get a date with the girl in question. It did not work! I finally learned that when a girl turns you down for a date you look for a different girl to date. There is a saying for that which wise parents tell their sons and daughters of dating age:
"There are a lot more fish in the sea".
There is nothing wrong with voting Green or any other third party provided it will not affect the other two parties vote outcome. Its good to let the two major parties realize they don't own us all.
When polls show the vote between our two major parties is very close then its foolish to waste a vote on a third party. The reality is that one of the two parties will win. If you want a say under that circumstance then you vote for the major party that will help you the most.
An example would be the Ohio special election. I'm sure almost all Green party voters there would never vote Republican. Yet, by not voting Democratic they helped the Republican party, a party that is extremely hostile to Green party initiatives.
We need to vote strategically.
BG9 said:
There is nothing wrong with voting Green or any other third party provided it will not affect the other two parties vote outcome. Its good to let the two major parties realize they don't own us all.
When polls show the vote between our two major parties is very close then its foolish to waste a vote on a third party. The reality is that one of the two parties will win. If you want a say under that circumstance then you vote for the major party that will help you the most.
An example would be the Ohio special election. I'm sure almost all Green party voters there would never vote Republican. Yet, by not voting Democratic they helped the Republican party, a party that is extremely hostile to Green party initiatives.
We need to vote strategically.
Please Stand by for the nonsensical response to this calm rational appeal.
LOST said:
sbenois is the problem?
Yes. Sbenosis and all the other right wing Dems who won't admit that the railroading of the Clintons down the party's throat cost the Dems the election.
As long as these folks keep tilting at Green windmills and ignoring the elephant in the room we will be doomed to repeat the real mistakes of 2016.
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