Old Thread About Election Consequences
Well, earlier in one of these discussions drummerboy mentioned that he was a fan of KIrstan Gillibrand. I tend to think of her as another Hillary 2.0 and she even looks like Hillary. However, I was impressed when she was one only a few Democrats to vote against giving Trump more money for the military than he asked for. I also remember her coming out in favor of Medicare for All, but I thought she was just saying that to get votes (like Corey Booker and Kamalia Harris). But, today, I watched a video that makes a better case for her as a true progressive or at least on the road for that.
brealer said:
she ran Al Franken out of the senate. Won't vote for her.
Al Fraken was another HIllary 2.0.
Trump will decimate most of these folks. Sorry. We are living at a time when a tough politician is needed to rid us of Trump once and for all. Ultra progressive or not. Apparently persona counts and that persona better be able to go head to orange head. If a weak candidate is chosen to rep the Dems it will be because our precious electorate is exercising its astonishingly clueless privilege once again.
annielou said:
Trump will decimate most of these folks. Sorry. We are living at a time when a tough politician is needed to rid us of Trump once and for all. Ultra progressive or not. Apparently persona counts and that persona better be able to go head to orange head. If a weak candidate is chosen to rep the Dems it will be because our precious electorate is exercising its astonishingly clueless privilege once again.
Trump ran as a fake progressive against an establishment hack with TONS of baggage. He has been exposed now and is vulnerable. He will not be able to stand up to a real progressive who can convincingly support Medicare for All, free college and a living wage. People are dying for those things. They will get off their couches and vote in waves, although I'm sure the Republicans will try to close all the polling stations. Also, the Democrats will want another Hillary to keep the donors happy.
Trump ran as a fake progressive? Maybe I don’t understand the definition.
annielou said:
Trump ran as a fake progressive? Maybe I don’t understand the definition.
fake progressive is kind of extreme - but he did say things about medical insurance for everyone (because, you know, it was easy), taxing the wealthy, getting rid of that billionaire hedge fund tax loophole, help for the working man, draining the swamp (which everyone was allowed to define as they saw fit) and blah blah.
He definitely wasn't running on the same Republican platform as your everyday R. Now of course, he's your standard Republican on steroids.
Al Franken could have "debated" the hell out of Trump. But it was "to the guillotine!" From his pathetic colleagues in the Senate. They are unrecognizabe to me and very, very far from my own positions.
drummerboy said:
annielou said:fake progressive is kind of extreme - but he did say things about medical insurance for everyone (because, you know, it was easy), taxing the wealthy, getting rid of that billionaire hedge fund tax loophole, help for the working man, draining the swamp (which everyone was allowed to define as they saw fit) and blah blah.
Trump ran as a fake progressive? Maybe I don’t understand the definition.
He definitely wasn't running on the same Republican platform as your everyday R. Now of course, he's your standard Republican on steroids.
I watched Trump's rallies. He was often channeling Bernie Sanders. He was screaming about unfair trade deals and jobs disappearing and bad healthcare and how he was going to fix it all. On foreign policy he was sort of an anti-interventionist. He was also stereotyping and scapegoating immigrants but that's right-wing populism.
Two NYC born candidates may have a certain swag and know how about crowd appeal. That should in no way confuse the observer about their individual platforms, which is what’s happening here in this thread. If u knew Trump during his NYC heyday, you knew his true nature. Proposals that in any way resembled help for the working class / middle class had to be considered with the backdrop of those Trump years in NY, which were marked by racism, classism, and a total disrespect for institutions, most markedly the institution of marriage. He fooled only the fools.
annielou said:
Two NYC born candidates may have a certain swag and know how about crowd appeal. That should in no way confuse the observer about their individual platforms, which is what’s happening here in this thread. If u knew Trump during his NYC heyday, you knew his true nature. Proposals that in any way resembled help for the working class / middle class had to be considered with the backdrop of those Trump years in NY, which were marked by racism, classism, and a total disrespect for institutions, most markedly the institution of marriage. He fooled only the fools.
No one in this thread is confusing anything regarding Trump and Sanders. We are talking about what Trump said while campaigning - not if he was being honest about it.
Hasn’t Cuomo’s opposition to progressive office holders from his own party kind of defined his time as governor?
GoSlugs said:
Hasn’t Cuomo’s opposition to progressive office holders from his own party kind of defined his time as governor?
Cuomo sucks. Big time. One of the most craven Dem politicians around.
New York State has a variety of voters both ethnically and idealogically and Cuomo has been governor there for a while. Just sayin’. You can go ahead and live in a definition of progressivism that suits your privilege, but most people have to live in the real world. Please please please don’t continue to take a water pistol to a gunfight.
annielou said:
New York State has a variety of voters both ethnically and idealogically and Cuomo has been governor there for a while. Just sayin’. You can go ahead and live in a definition of progressivism that suits your privilege, but most people have to live in the real world. Please please please don’t continue to take a water pistol to a gunfight.
good point.
He still sucks. Longevity proves nothing.
brealer said:
Al Franken could have "debated" the hell out of Trump. But it was "to the guillotine!" From his pathetic colleagues in the Senate. They are unrecognizabe to me and very, very far from my own positions.
I was just getting ready to type in the phrase "debated the hell out of Trump". I've posted before my dissatisfaction with kicking Franken out. And now radio silence on all of the hundreds of men in congress who probably did their share of hitting on women. It accomplished nothing.
He has a FB page which is filled with followers from his state complaining that they never had a chance to weigh in and begging him to run again. He was amazing on the Senate floor.
Well that said, I'll vote for the Dem that runs against Trump, but she would not be my first pick in the primary which of course doesn't matter because we are at the end of the line so we will get the one they want in middle America.
Longevity proves that there is enough of a coalition to re-elect. I’m not sure who you can point to out here who can take on Trump. Maybe I’m incorrect but I’ve never heard about any major bully tactic (ie “Pocahontas”, “low energy”, etc) leveled against Bernie or Cuomo (Andrew, that is. He’s gone after his bro quite frequently). Why? I ask myself. Because he doesn’t know what to say or do about them. All the other candidates being discussed on here are fish in a barrel in Trump’s world.
I'd be surprised if Biden ran, but I do think he could stand up to Trump. He has the most experience and knowledge. I can see him winning.
I think Elizabeth Warren's style could be a great contrast to his bullying and name calling. She's smart, energetic and upbeat. And quite a few of us are getting impatient to see a female win.
Long shot but one of my favorites, Sherrod Brown. Smart, passionate and warm. Another great contrast. Like Biden he could talk to voters in the Mid West. Many of them might be looking for a bit less bombast.
I love Cory Booker best of all but I doubt he'll get the backing, although I could see him as a VP. His style is a nice contrast to Kamala Harris, so I'd love to see them as a team some day.
I don't understand all of this talk about being able to "stand up" to Trump. Stand up to what exactly? His being an azzhole?
drummerboy said:
I don't understand all of this talk about being able to "stand up" to Trump. Stand up to what exactly? His being an azzhole?
Yes, that about covers it. I think up thread, someone mentioned that his technique took out 16 contenders. I know most people couldn't watch each debate but I watched in amazement. I'm still stunned that he got away with blowing one of the debates off.
He bullied his way through using every sleazy technique. As I mentioned before, showing up to debate a woman and holding a surprise press conference with all of her husbands former accusers and then seating them in the audience.
The best way to stand up to Trump is with an exciting platform. If the candidate is for Medicare for All and Trump has done nothing on healthcare, it's not going to look good for him no matter what kind of insults he slings.
drummerboy said:
I don't understand all of this talk about being able to "stand up" to Trump. Stand up to what exactly? His being an azzhole?
Stand up to bullying, race baiting, name calling.
The question for his opponent is whether to fight fire with fire or go high when he goes low. The person who can best answer that question has my vote.
nan said:
The best way to stand up to Trump is with an exciting platform. If the candidate is for Medicare for All and Trump has done nothing on healthcare, it's not going to look good for him no matter what kind of insults he slings.
People don't really care about platforms, and the media hates to talk about them, so no one knows what they are anyway. (e.g. Hillary/2016)
drummerboy said:
nan said:People don't really care about platforms, and the media hates to talk about them, so no one knows what they are anyway. (e.g. Hillary/2016)
The best way to stand up to Trump is with an exciting platform. If the candidate is for Medicare for All and Trump has done nothing on healthcare, it's not going to look good for him no matter what kind of insults he slings.
I don't agree. People like to hear that they will be getting the same kind of healthcare the rest of the world already enjoys. People like to hear they will bet getting a living wage. People like to hear their kids are not going to be saddled with college debt. Hillary said none of that--she continued with her middle of the road incrementalism and mostly railed at Trump. Trump talked a lot about his platform and how everyone would be beautifully covered by healthcare and employed.
A little thread drift for some good news.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/ivanka-trumps-clothing-company-shutting-down
annielou said:
Longevity proves that there is enough of a coalition to re-elect. I’m not sure who you can point to out here who can take on Trump. Maybe I’m incorrect but I’ve never heard about any major bully tactic (ie “Pocahontas”, “low energy”, etc) leveled against Bernie or Cuomo (Andrew, that is. He’s gone after his bro quite frequently). Why? I ask myself. Because he doesn’t know what to say or do about them. All the other candidates being discussed on here are fish in a barrel in Trump’s world.
Speaking of Cuomo
nan said:
I don't agree. People like to hear that they will be getting the same kind of healthcare the rest of the world already enjoys. People like to hear they will bet getting a living wage. People like to hear their kids are not going to be saddled with college debt. Hillary said none of that--she continued with her middle of the road incrementalism and mostly railed at Trump. Trump talked a lot about his platform and how everyone would be beautifully covered by healthcare and employed.
Trump will say the exact same things again and his "followers" will believe him.
If the Trump election taught us anything it’s that people are caught up in personality and unfortunately don’t know all that much about the issues that nan thinks will drive them to a super progressive candidate. It ain’t gonna happen. As soon as the election was over they went back to talking sports and entertainment on line. Not a clue even now about how issues are connected to our everyday lives.
He's seriously not progressive enough for many. He's also another neoliberal Hillary 2.0.