LET'S MARCH!
ajc said:
Well I went, and was pleased to see a room full of concerned men, women, and children, mostly interested in helping our kids with their March on Washington, DC; and organizing for better gun control measures in our community and beyond. My first thought was where were all these good folks Tuesday night, asking the township committee what else is being done to harden our schools, and protecting our children. . .
Anyway, I was doing OK just listening and learning, that is until the conversation turned to there shouldn't be any teachers with guns in the schools; and I offered the example of the success the state of Colorado was having after Columbine, with trained armed teachers; and said, "Be careful what you ask for." Fortunately, they interrupted me to say it was time for the kids to give their closing remarks. . .
ajc, as a former teacher, my gut reaction is that it sounds dangerous. As I have been following this, the definition of what I believe is being suggested, conceal carry, requires that the gun would be on my person. I regularly leaned over desks, squeezed down aisles, walked through crowded halls and carried supplies in my arms. Friendly students often run up to teachers in the halls. I have seen violent outbursts occur, a student smashing his hand through a window. A student jumping up on a desk in a rage. These things happen so fast that a teacher who had a weapon on their person, or who attempted to draw a weapon could easily be overpowered by a student or intruder.
I hear Trump insisting that there are many retired military in the teaching force or many adept at handling guns. He is suggesting 20% to 40% of teachers or staff carry. Maybe in some of the red states there are teachers with weapons training but in blue states? And again, a former Marine who is a teacher, said in an interview that she trained more than 50 days a year when she was in the military and to be ready that is what would be required.
While I love debate and the exploration of ideas, I feel we are quickly being led down some unrealistic paths.
jamie said:
ajc said:ajc - can you offer a link that shows the effectiveness of this policy? How many armed teachers are there in Colorado?
I offered the example of the success the state of Colorado was having after Columbine, with trained armed teachers
The program he described in the state does not exist. At most, there are some rural school districts which have staff do "double duty" as designated as security officers, as well. It's not a statewide program. This is a story from yesterday, about discussions in Colorado about arming teachers -
http://kdvr.com/2018/02/22/debate-escalates-over-teachers-carrying-weapons-in-colorado-schools/
Morganna said:
ajc said:
Anyway, I was doing OK just listening and learning, that is until the conversation turned to there shouldn't be any teachers with guns in the schools; and I offered the example of the success the state of Colorado was having after Columbine, with trained armed teachers; and said, "Be careful what you ask for." Fortunately, they interrupted me to say it was time for the kids to give their closing remarks. . .
ajc, as a former teacher, my gut reaction is that it sounds dangerous. ...
I am not a teacher, but I am the spouse, parent, and parent-in-law of current teachers. I am not hearing support for carrying in the classroom.
arming teachers is the stupidest fargin' idea in the history of dumb ideas. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.
Why are we even trying to rationalize such a dumbass idea.
Enough with the stupid "solutions." If we aren't going to have fewer guns in the U.S., please dear god in heaven, can't we at least have fewer stupid ideas about guns?
Dear Mr. AJC,
I hope you are not disappointed to learn the Dirty Harry and John Wayne movies that seem to inform much of your world view are fictitious and are not the documentaries you seem to think they are.
ajc said:
Jamie, I don't know the number in Colorado, but I understand nearly a third of the country, a total of 18 states, allows adults to carry a loaded gun on school grounds, with certain permissions. Listen, if it is only one in every school in America, it will save lives.
Art - you had said the following "I offered the example of the success the state of Colorado was having after Columbine, with trained armed teachers"
So - you offered up an example that you can't back up? Where in the success post Columbine in Colorado documented - I can't find anything via Google.
Or just provide more details on the Example of Success you brought up at the meeting.
Here's a case of a school shooting without magazine-fed semi-automatic weapons:
https://www.cnn.com/2013/12/14/us/colorado-school-shooting/index.html
Bad enough, but 1 victim sure is preferable to 17.
"He praised the deputy's response as "a critical element to the shooter's decision" to kill himself, and lauded his response to hearing gunshots. "He went to the thunder," he said. "He heard the noise of gunshot and, when many would run away from it, he ran toward it to make other people safe."
Thanks, the article helps prove my point. These shooters are ALL cowards, and at the sight of, or even thought of being confronted, they will kill themselves. Having, or even knowing there is someone with a gun, or where someone is capable of stopping them, has been proven to be the safer, than where they know it is a gun free zone.
BTW, Miorganna, you have all good points, and I respect your experience; however, I'd rather take my chances that those few mishaps are by far the exception, and that overall the majority of us will be safer with licensed, and registered trained adults with concealed carry permits. There are a lot of mentally sick people out there, and I'd be happy to debate the pros and cons sometime....off-line.
ajc said:
These shooters are ALL cowards, and at the sight of, or even thought of being confronted, they will kill themselves.
What is it with this insistence mass-killers are cowards or, alternatively, that terrorists of cowards. These people are many things, but I would not really include cowardice among their attributes. My mind would have to be in such a different place for me to think of committing a single murder let alone mass murder, that I rather doubt that cowardice would be among my concerns.
Of course, AJC, you probably think that the 9/11 attack was because the attackers hated us for our freedom and that it therefore made sense to build the Freedom Tower and rename EWR to Newark Liberty.
I would think that these mass shooters are suicidal and expect to die. They see it as some sort of "Glory" to go out in a hail of bullets. I might be wrong but I think having armed teachers might actually attract more of these lunatics.
Over 2,000 people showed up last night for a meeting at Bnei Abraham in Livingston. Far exceeding expectations and straining the capacity of the building. I was unable to attend but my Rabbi was a speaker and many people from my synagogue were there and said it was a powerful event.
The momentum continues to build.
This issue with the current Trump/ajc argument is that a teacher or even a law enforcement officer with a handgun has very little chance when going up against someone with an AR-15 and wearing body armor.
What if everyone carried an AR-15 and wore a Kevlar vest? Is this our 2nd amendment right? I would think the NRA would have zero issue with this idea.
Do states and cities with strict gun laws manage to avoid school shootings? All mass shootings? I can't think of a mass shooting in those places, but I could be wrong, and I don't know much about the variation of gun laws other than the fact that NJ, NY, and CT are stricter than many other states.
Newtown?
Tom_Reingold said:
Do states and cities with strict gun laws manage to avoid school shootings? All mass shootings? I can't think of a mass shooting in those places, but I could be wrong, and I don't know much about the variation of gun laws other than the fact that NJ, NY, and CT are stricter than many other states.
drummerboy said:
Newtown?
Tom_Reingold said:
Do states and cities with strict gun laws manage to avoid school shootings? All mass shootings? I can't think of a mass shooting in those places, but I could be wrong, and I don't know much about the variation of gun laws other than the fact that NJ, NY, and CT are stricter than many other states.
CT allowed the purchase of AR-15s prior to the Sandy Hook shootings. Since that time CT has banned the type of weapons used in the attack there.
ska said:
Over 2,000 people showed up last night for a meeting at Bnei Abraham in Livingston. Far exceeding expectations and straining the capacity of the building. I was unable to attend but my Rabbi was a speaker and many people from my synagogue were there and said it was a powerful event.
The momentum continues to build.
I saw mention of it this morning on the news. Heard it was on the radio as well. I didn't see it publicized in advance but apparently the news got out with amazing attendance. That is wonderful. Were there specific initiatives planned?
I see also that The Women's March group is having weekly meetings.
Tom_Reingold said:
Do states and cities with strict gun laws manage to avoid school shootings? All mass shootings? I can't think of a mass shooting in those places, but I could be wrong, and I don't know much about the variation of gun laws other than the fact that NJ, NY, and CT are stricter than many other states.
Did you hear the announcement by Gov. Cuomo that he is part of a regional coalition comprised of NY, NJ, CT and RI? All have strict gun control laws and will be sharing information. He spoke about it on MSNBC a few days ago.
Morganna said:
Tom_Reingold said:
Do states and cities with strict gun laws manage to avoid school shootings? All mass shootings? I can't think of a mass shooting in those places, but I could be wrong, and I don't know much about the variation of gun laws other than the fact that NJ, NY, and CT are stricter than many other states.
Did you hear the announcement by Gov. Cuomo that he is part of a regional coalition comprised of NY, NJ, CT and RI? All have strict gun control laws and will be sharing information. He spoke about it on MSNBC a few days ago.
Massachusetts is now part of this coalition.
peaceinourtime said:
Morganna said:
Tom_Reingold said:
Do states and cities with strict gun laws manage to avoid school shootings? All mass shootings? I can't think of a mass shooting in those places, but I could be wrong, and I don't know much about the variation of gun laws other than the fact that NJ, NY, and CT are stricter than many other states.
Did you hear the announcement by Gov. Cuomo that he is part of a regional coalition comprised of NY, NJ, CT and RI? All have strict gun control laws and will be sharing information. He spoke about it on MSNBC a few days ago.
Massachusetts is now part of this coalition.
Great! When I heard Cuomo list the states, I wondered why Mass. was not apart of them. Love to see them snag NH and VT.
.
Dennis_Seelbach said:
I call B.S. But that's good ol' Art just bein' Art.
I don't agree with most of what Art comes up with in terms of political discourse. Art bein' Art? At least he gives a ****. Enough of a **** to get off of his *** and go to forums, listen and express his ideas. Enough of his time, money and effort to make the town a better place.
Also, getting rid of guns is the goal but what is wrong with seeing is there are weaknesses in the schools' security that can be corrected?
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I call B.S. But that's good ol' Art just bein' Art.