Traveling to/from NJ Transit via Penn Station has been a friggin nightmare. Everyone knows the story with the Amtrak track work that will keep things this bad through Labor Day. I saw something the other evening that police were actually not allowing people to go into Penn because the train delays were causing such overcrowding. That is BAD.   

What's depressing to me is that all the end result from this very disruptive period will effectively just return things to the pre-derailments status quo -- which was, an unreliable train system with regular delays and not-infrequent meltdowns. The current work is just a temporary band-aid to hold things together -- the elephant of the need for a new tunnel and a new Penn Station is still in the room, looming larger than ever.     

A monthly Metrocard will not work to ride the PATH.  A monthly PATH card is $89.

qrysdonnell said:


Also keep in mind that it's not like PATH goes to the same place either. I work between 11th and 12 avenues, so it's a long enough walk already that I don't really want to start it at 6th ave. (Or add another $121 dollars for a monthly Metrocard.)

double post.

I would also assume that Midtown Direct Trains would be rerouted to Hoboken. However, if all of our trains go to Hoboken, I would still expect reduced service along the Morris-Essex Line since other lines that don't normally have the degree of Hoboken service we do may also find their service terminating in Hoboken.  Another possibility is to have the Midtown Direct trains terminate in Secaucus and run shuttle buses to/from that location. 

NJ Transit's Morris & Essex Midtown Direct Trains to Be Canceled During Penn Station Overhaul: Christie

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news...

Wow.  Your headline is totally wrong.  The trains are being rerouted to Hoboken, which is certainly a drag, but not cancelled.

A few questions to consider that I did not see covered by the linked article:  

Will the number of trains serving the Morris/Essex line including the Montclair and Gladstone branches be reduced or will all current midtown direct trains now go to/from Hoboken?  

Will the typical three to four car Hoboken trains currently making that run have additional cars added to handle additional ridership while service to NYP is curtailed?  

Will PATH and ferry service be expanded during the repair period to allow for additional pressure placed on them by passengers looking to travel between Hoboken and Manhattan?

Will those with Hoboken tickets also get the discounted fairs + free transfer or is this only for those having NYP tickets?

Even with the loss of Midtown Direct service this summer, I suspect that Morris/Essex riders will be in much better shape than those using other lines as long as schedule and cars in operation are maintained and as long as ferry and PATH service is expanded to accommodate the additional ridership going to/from NYC.  Our elected officials should lobby our local transportation providers to ensure this happens.

"Wow.  Your headline is totally wrong.  The trains are being rerouted to Hoboken, which is certainly a drag, but not cancelled."

Midtown Direct Service (trains to NYP) is being suspended [cancelled] for the repair period.  Article does not specify how many existing trains will be cancelled due to lack of space at Hoboken or how many train cars may be lost to our train line during this period.

FilmCarp said:

Wow.  Your headline is totally wrong.  The trains are being rerouted to Hoboken, which is certainly a drag, but not cancelled.

My guess is that was NBC4's original headline and that j_r simply copied and pasted it.

I didn't read the article above but I had read an article last week that said 25% of rush hour trains will be cancelled and another percentage re-routed into Hoboken. Is that not the current plan?

This article from the failing New York times has some more details:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/0...

Are the reduced monthly rates for only those who are commuting into Penn or are they for Hoboken monthlies too?  Two months of delays, cancellations, and extreme overcrowding make me hope that the cost will be reduced for ALL M&E customers.  The article wasn't clear.  No matter where you're trying to go, it's going to be pretty awful this summer.

spol said:

Are the reduced monthly rates for only those who are commuting into Penn or are they for Hoboken monthlies too?  Two months of delays, cancellations, and extreme overcrowding make me hope that the cost will be reduced for ALL M&E customers.  The article wasn't clear.  No matter where you're trying to go, it's going to be pretty awful this summer.

If not, just buy NY tickets at the lower price.

What Max wrote.

My understanding from the last time trains were rerouted was that the larger Midtown Direct double-deckers are able to stop on only a few of the platforms in Hoboken, resulting in delays.

As far as the NBC headline, if a Midtown Direct train is "rerouted" to Hoboken, then it isn't a Midtown Direct, is it?

so, are the MoBo trains going to run to Penn?  What's to stop folks from switching at Broad and overcrowding those trains?

is this actually saying ALL trains on Morris Essex line will go to Hoboken? That's insane.

I believe the modified schedule will be out next week. Should be quite interesting indeed. Trains may still be overcrowded despite it being summer, on top of already stressful situation, just hoping tempers don't flare up too much as the temperature rises.

Sorry to jump in with a plug...but every once in a while, I try to remind people of a free app I wrote. No...I'm not some carpetbagger or VC-funded startup. Rather, I'm a 52-year-old guy with a full-time job in the city. I bootstrapped a crowdsourced transit service when I realized that we are so much better-informed when we help each other. Since humble beginings in Montclair in 2006, "Clever Commute" has been the place where commuters provide real-time actionable info via their smartphones. I'd appreciate it if you check it out via your app store. Thanks.

The discount will be off the Hoboken fare, regardless of whether you normally go there or NY Penn.

Modified Service Plan Due to Amtrak's Summer Track Repair Work in Effect Monday, July 10 through Friday, September 1, 2017

NJ TRANSIT rail customers have been forced to deal with delays, derailments and unreliable service because Amtrak, which owns the tracks our service relies upon, has neglected the maintenance of its critical infrastructure for years. For three-quarters of NJ TRANSIT rail customers travel patterns will not be modified, including the Trenton to New York Northeast Corridor Line. However, delays on all rail lines, except for the Atlantic City Rail line, are inevitable.  Long overdue Amtrak track repair work will significantly disrupt travel this summer for customers who normally travel on the Morris & Essex Midtown Direct service to and from Penn Station New York. As a result, for their inconvenience, Morris & Essex Lines customers will receive about a 50 percent discount off the regular Hoboken ticket cost, in addition to cross-honoring with ferry and PATH service at Hoboken Terminal.

Below is the overall rail service plan for customers who will be traveling into Penn Station New York and Hoboken Terminal this summer.

NJ TRANSIT Service Plan for July 10th - September 1st  The following weekday rail service plan will be in place continuously from July 10th through September 1st.

• Midtown Direct trains on the Morristown Line will be diverted to Hoboken.
• Midtown Direct trains on the Gladstone Branch will be diverted to Hoboken.
• All Midtown Direct trains on the Montclair-Boonton Line will operate on regular weekday schedules with minor time changes to/from PSNY.
• All Northeast Corridor and North Jersey Coast Line trains will operate on regular weekday schedules with minor time changes to/from PSNY.
• Raritan Valley Line will operate on regular weekday schedules with adjustments to PSNY schedules.
• Main/Bergen, Pascack Valley and Port Jervis Lines will operate on regular weekday schedules however customers may need to adjust their connections to New York at Secaucus.

NJ TRANSIT’s regular weekend service will remain in effect through the summer Amtrak Track Repair Work. Fare Discounts for M&E customers M&E customers will receive about a 50 percent discount off the Hoboken fare, and will be able to utilize cross-honoring alternatives in Hoboken. This discount will be based on the origin and the destination of the M&E customer’s travel.

• Examples: 
  • A customer who currently purchases a Gladstone to New York monthly pass pays $451. During the Amtrak repair work, Gladstone customers will pay $168 – 63 percent less.
  • A customer who currently purchases an East Orange to New York monthly pass pays $184. During the Amtrak repair work, East Orange customers will pay $72 – 61 percent.

Web Site and Travel Information NJ TRANSIT will provide updated information as it becomes available on njtransit.com.

Information on NJ TRANSIT’s website is available in 14 languages using Google Translate. To use a language other than English, click on “Translate This Site” at the lower right corner of the homepage and click on the language of your choice.

Customers may also access NJ TRANSIT’s Twitter feed at @NJTRANSIT or listen to broadcast traffic reports.  Additionally, NJ TRANSIT will provide the most current service information via the My Transit alert system (www.njtransit.com/mytransit), which delivers travel advisories for your specific trip to your cell phone. Service information is also available by calling 973) 275-5555">(973) 275-5555.

Steve said:

so, are the MoBo trains going to run to Penn?  What's to stop folks from switching at Broad and overcrowding those trains?

I'm pretty sure they will all go to Hoboken.

conandrob240 said:

is this actually saying ALL trains on Morris Essex line will go to Hoboken? That's insane.

That's how it worked before they put in the Kearney connection in the mid-1990s.  I'd be interested to know the relative volume of passengers/trains now (MTD + HOB) vs pre-MTD.  I know it has increased, but I don't know by how much. Hoboken volumes certainly decreased markedly after MTD.

Steve said:

so, are the MoBo trains going to run to Penn?  What's to stop folks from switching at Broad and overcrowding those trains?

Having MoBo trains serving NYP  bypass Newark would be one way of preventing passengers from transferring at Newark. There are MoBo trains that serve Hoboken now.  Passengers on that branch going to Newark Broad Street or Hoboken could be instructed to take those trains.

Adding cars to MoBo trains serving NYP would be a way of reducing overcrowding, assuming these trains do not already have the maximum number of cars allowed.

Thinking outside the box could also help.  Encouraging Morris & Essex passengers to take the light rail to Newark Penn Station for transfer to PATH or NYP bound trains would be attractive to some.  Extending cross honoring tickets to local buses to Newark Penn Station and Interstate buses to Port Authority would be another way to reduce pressure on the MoBo line. Having a fleet of such buses available at Newark Broad Street shuttling to Port Authority is another way to reduce pressure. I can see persons in our immediate area driving to one of the MoBo line stations and taking the train from there.  Others might drive to a PATH station for access to Manhattan.

couldn't they have spread the joy here? Why is one line so dramatically inconvenienced and many of the rest run normally?

sac said:

conandrob240 said:

is this actually saying ALL trains on Morris Essex line will go to Hoboken? That's insane.

That's how it worked before they put in the Kearney connection in the mid-1990s.  I'd be interested to know the relative volume of passengers/trains now (MTD + HOB) vs pre-MTD.  I know it has increased, but I don't know by how much. Hoboken volumes certainly decreased markedly after MTD.

That's my question too, conandrob240 -- seems we'll suffer far more than riders on the other systems. I understand that's because our line is the one most easily diverted to Hoboken, but it's still maddeningly unfair. Seems to me that Amtrak riders should be most affected -- they are mostly vacationers and business travelers with much more flexibility than twice-daily commuters, for whom the changes will be far more painful. 

conandrob240 said:

couldn't they have spread the joy here? Why is one line so dramatically inconvenienced and many of the rest run normally?

sac said:

conandrob240 said:

is this actually saying ALL trains on Morris Essex line will go to Hoboken? That's insane.

That's how it worked before they put in the Kearney connection in the mid-1990s.  I'd be interested to know the relative volume of passengers/trains now (MTD + HOB) vs pre-MTD.  I know it has increased, but I don't know by how much. Hoboken volumes certainly decreased markedly after MTD.

I don't disagree, but I suspect that riders going in to Penn are also going to suffer a lot of delays. IF (and it's a big IF), the temporary service via HOB/PATH can be made to run more or less as it did pre-MTD, it might not be that different from the degraded service into Penn.  That's why I asked the question about relative volumes between the early 1990s and now.

This is the thing. As it stands my train is about 30 minutes late every day. If I can go to Hoboken and get a ferry to Midtown I'm looking at about the same commute as a 30 minute late train to NYP.

While Hoboken hasn't been great when all lines are diverted there, there's always a chance that with just M/E diverted it won't be that bad.

So, we'll have to see how this all works out.

The other lines are mad that we're the only ones getting the discounts, so at least we have that.

sac said:

conandrob240 said:

couldn't they have spread the joy here? Why is one line so dramatically inconvenienced and many of the rest run normally?

sac said:

conandrob240 said:

is this actually saying ALL trains on Morris Essex line will go to Hoboken? That's insane.

That's how it worked before they put in the Kearney connection in the mid-1990s.  I'd be interested to know the relative volume of passengers/trains now (MTD + HOB) vs pre-MTD.  I know it has increased, but I don't know by how much. Hoboken volumes certainly decreased markedly after MTD.

I don't disagree, but I suspect that riders going in to Penn are also going to suffer a lot of delays. IF (and it's a big IF), the temporary service via HOB/PATH can be made to run more or less as it did pre-MTD, it might not be that different from the degraded service into Penn.  That's why I asked the question about relative volumes between the early 1990s and now.

If we're the only line being diverted to Hoboken, does that mean that the post-derailment problem we had with trains waiting for tracks to open up at HOB terminal shouldn't be too much of an issue?  They key then was to take the normally scheduled Hoboken trains to minimize track delays, but that's going to lead to some major overcrowding if it's still the case.  Hopefully by having just one line doing this, they're working out how to use all 17 (?) tracks for these extra trains.  I'm not too optimistic.

According to the news report I heard yesterday, PATH has gone on record stating they will not be able to handle the additional demand resulting from all Morris/Essex train service terminating at Hoboken. Plan is to have most of the additional ridership served by ferries.  This could work for some lower Manhattan and Midtown commuters who work near the ferry terminals but would be a further hassle for those commuting to the outer boroughs, and parts of Manhattan not served by the ferries.  Hoboken is not a solution for those transferring at NYP for LIRR or Amtrak trains that do not stop at Newark.

Why wouldn't it be feasible to have developed a plan in which at least some Midtown Direct trains terminated at Secaucus where riders could then transfer for train service to/from NYP?  I seems to me that this would cause far less disruption than sending everyone to Hoboken.

Maybe it bears mentioning that there is a bus (the 126) from Hoboken that goes to the Port Authority. If there could be buses that didn't make local stops, it would almost be bearable. Temporarily.