Can we talk about the Essex County Democratic Primary now?
I'm sorry, but are you seriously equating the jailing of undocumented aliens to slavery?
(And I can't believe I have to make this argument, but keeping a person in jail is kind of the exact opposite of what you want to do with a slave. ick. I feel dirty.)
And are you saying that none of these people should ever be jailed, or deported?
I've already said that I would prefer the country is not in the this business - but all that would do is make us feel a bit morally superior. It wouldn't stop those people from being jailed somewhere else. So what's the point.
The problem is not that Essex makes money from ICE - the problem is that ICE exists. Attacking the former does not nothing about fixing the latter.
drummerboy said:
(And I can't believe I have to make this argument, but keeping a person in jail is kind of the exact opposite of what you want to do with a slave. ick. I feel dirty.)
Depriving them of their personal freedom? I think there are a lot of advocates of criminal justice reform who would argue with your premise.
drummerboy said:
And are you saying that none of these people should ever be jailed, or deported?
I would say that the issue of detaining aliens cannot be addressed until the immediate crisis has been resolved by removing the relevant members of the Administration from office. Clearly there needs to be an immigration system but the current one has been soiled to the point that it is unusable.
drummerboy said:
The problem is not that Essex makes money from ICE - the problem is that ICE exists. Attacking the former does not nothing about fixing the latter.
An interesting argument in an age when Universities are being called to account for the way in which they profited from the slave trade. I have a problem with a body, of which I am a member, profiting from an immoral system. I am surprised that you do not.
Anyhow, thank you for explaining your view point. I find it hard to comprehend but I guess there are people of good will in the county who actually support this. I wouldn't have thought so.
Klinker said:
Anyhow, thank you for explaining your view point. I find it hard to comprehend but I guess there are people of good will in the county who actually support this. I wouldn't have thought so.
I wouldn't say I support it. I just have a helluva lot of other sh** that I lose sleep over.
drummerboy said:
Klinker said:
Anyhow, thank you for explaining your view point. I find it hard to comprehend but I guess there are people of good will in the county who actually support this. I wouldn't have thought so.
I wouldn't say I support it. I just have a helluva lot of other sh** that I lose sleep over.
All that other stuff is largely outside our power to control. This seems like an issue that we ought to be able to influence but I have talked to a lot of people at the county level and it is clear that this is Joey D's baby and nothing is going to touch it.
And of course, nothing is EVER going to touch Joey D. Not the ethics panel, not democracy, nothing.....
Klinker said:
drummerboy said:
Klinker said:
Anyhow, thank you for explaining your view point. I find it hard to comprehend but I guess there are people of good will in the county who actually support this. I wouldn't have thought so.
I wouldn't say I support it. I just have a helluva lot of other sh** that I lose sleep over.
All that other stuff is largely outside our power to control. This seems like an issue that we ought to be able to influence but I have talked to a lot of people at the county level and it is clear that this is Joey D's baby and nothing is going to touch it.
And of course, nothing is EVER going to touch Joey D. Not the ethics panel, not democracy, nothing.....
yeah, but as I said, winning on this issue has no effect other than stroking your conscience. It would have zero practical affect on anything important. It would simply make you feel good. And maybe increase your taxes.
It would be a moral victory, with no absolutely no meaning other than that.
drummerboy said:
yeah, but as I said, winning on this issue has no effect other than stroking your conscience. It would have zero practical affect on anything important. It would simply make you feel good. And maybe increase your taxes.It would be a moral victory, with no absolutely no meaning other than that.
Ummm.... what's wrong with moral victories? I mean, we definitely need to score some material victories too but achieving moral victories by behaving in a moral fashion? I don't see the down side.
Now focussing on material victory to such a degree that we, ourselves, behave unethically? That's diving into some murky water.
In any case, this one issue is part of a much larger context. Joey D's collusion with the Trump Administration is appalling, his meddling in the SO election was deplorable and his support of Chris Christie in exchange for having his ethics problems buried ought to have been criminal.
Let's send him off to enjoy his multiple retirements in peace and start working to restore democracy to the Essex County Democratic Party.
Klinker said:
In any case, this one issue is part of a much larger context. Joey D's collusion with the Trump Administration is appalling, his meddling in the SO election was deplorable and his support of Chris Christie in exchange for having his ethics problems buried ought to have been criminal.
Let's send him off to enjoy his multiple retirements in peace and start working to restore democracy to the Essex County Democratic Party.
I agree. Each of those 3 things individually would be enough to vote him out of office.
Depriving people of their Liberty indefinitely based on the color of their skin and their national origin? Nah.... that definitely doesn't have anything to do with slavery.
As for benefitting from immoral policies, sure, we may do that because we happened to be born here but, as ethical people, don't we have an obligation to oppose those policies, not abet them?
Are you a county employee? Are you not at liberty to speak freely about this subject? I am only asking because your responses on this thread seem seriously out of character.