Biden vs Trump
ml1 said:
Smedley said:
If you’re new here, you can directly respond to a comment you find interesting, you don’t have to be polite and obliquely refer back to a generic “someone”. Come on, don’t be shy.
But if saying Trump’s articulation and mental acuity is better than Biden’s is “praise”, well, then, I’m guilty as charged.
And I would encourage your vacation idea. At least take a vacation from your daily cat fights in the Rose garden thread. Ive been away from MOL politics for the better part of the summer and now I feel mentally rested and recharged.ok. your assessment of Trump v. Biden is completely absurd. You are being "attacked" because you made a preposterous claim without any evidence to back it up. Let's see all the examples of how much better the extemporaneous Trump is than BIden. Let's go to the video.
There are plenty of videos out there, just Google or YouTube 'Biden mental fitness' or the like. Just yesterday on a Yahoo interview he asked if the questioner was a cocaine junkie and his answer on something about China was gobbledygook. All videos all out there in the public domain and I assumed people were generally aware of them which is why I didn't feel the need to present evidence. There are also the primary campaign debates in which I thought Biden was shaky for the most part. Cringeworthy sometimes, fine sometimes, but shaky for the most part. And I was totally comfortable with Biden in 2008 and 2012 and I think he did great in the debates those years.
Yes Trump is headed down the same road, and there's no shortage of videos of Trump fumbling with and stumbling over words. But there's no way to make a true comparison other than having Biden and Trump go through the same battery of neurological tests and be evaluated by a team of neurologists. That is beyond the scope of what we can do here on MOL.
So Biden's cognitive state is worrisome to me. That is my subjective opinion, it is not an objective fact (those two have been confused previously on this forum).
You may disagree with my opinion, but if my opinion is "completely absurd" and "preposterous", as you say, why is it such a talking point these days and why is Biden asked whether he has taken a cognitive test almost anywhere he goes? You may say the media has just bought into a baseless right-wing talking point, but that is quite a conspiratorial view.
And if my opinion is "completely absurd" and "preposterous", why did Biden decline Chris Wallace interview? Do you think Warren or Sanders or Buttigieg would have declined? I don't, I think all of them would have gone on and killed it.
Smedley said:
And if my opinion is "completely absurd" and "preposterous", why did Biden decline Chris Wallace interview? Do you think Warren or Sanders or Buttigieg would have declined? I don't, I think all of them would have gone on and killed it.
Alternative explanation -- Biden's strategy is to give Trump all the rope he wants to hang himself. I'll note that neither Warren, Sanders, nor Buttigieg are the nominee, and that Biden is polling stronger against Trump than Clinton at her highest. While I personally find it disappointing that "nominate old white guy and avoid making waves" turns out to be the most effective strategy against Trump, I'll get over that disappointment pretty easily when the MPs lead Trump out of the WH in handcuffs.
Dennis_Seelbach said:
At the risk of offending folks,
That clause is one of the funniest things I've ever read on MOL.
PVW said:
Smedley said:
And if my opinion is "completely absurd" and "preposterous", why did Biden decline Chris Wallace interview? Do you think Warren or Sanders or Buttigieg would have declined? I don't, I think all of them would have gone on and killed it.
Alternative explanation -- Biden's strategy is to give Trump all the rope he wants to hang himself. I'll note that neither Warren, Sanders, nor Buttigieg are the nominee, and that Biden is polling stronger against Trump than Clinton at her highest. While I personally find it disappointing that "nominate old white guy and avoid making waves" turns out to be the most effective strategy against Trump, I'll get over that disappointment pretty easily when the MPs lead Trump out of the WH in handcuffs.
Yes certainly that is the unsaid explanation from a campaign strategy standpoint. The 'front porch' strategy has been working so far, as per the polls, and it just might work to get Biden over the line.
But my whole point in OP on this thread is, the strategy might not work. The heat is going to ratchet up in Sept-Oct and I expect the race will tighten. At some point, Biden will need to competently, confidently and clearly assert himself -- he doesn't have to reinvent the wheel, but he can't fall on his face either. And I just have my doubts that he's up to the task.
Smedley said:
PVW said:
Smedley said:
And if my opinion is "completely absurd" and "preposterous", why did Biden decline Chris Wallace interview? Do you think Warren or Sanders or Buttigieg would have declined? I don't, I think all of them would have gone on and killed it.
Alternative explanation -- Biden's strategy is to give Trump all the rope he wants to hang himself. I'll note that neither Warren, Sanders, nor Buttigieg are the nominee, and that Biden is polling stronger against Trump than Clinton at her highest. While I personally find it disappointing that "nominate old white guy and avoid making waves" turns out to be the most effective strategy against Trump, I'll get over that disappointment pretty easily when the MPs lead Trump out of the WH in handcuffs.
Yes certainly that is the unsaid explanation from a campaign strategy standpoint. The 'front porch' strategy has been working so far, as per the polls, and it just might work to get Biden over the line.
But my whole point in OP on this thread is, the strategy might not work. The heat is going to ratchet up in Sept-Oct and I expect the race will tighten. At some point, Biden will need to competently, confidently and clearly assert himself -- he doesn't have to reinvent the wheel, but he can't fall on his face either. And I just have my doubts that he's up to the task.
He wasn't my first pick either, because I also was hoping for a more assertive campaign. But the majority of primary voters disagreed with me and, looking at the facts on the ground, I'm having a hard time arguing they were wrong.
ml1 said:
I'm stunned that someone praised Trump's articulation and mental acuity.
I think I need a vacation. Maybe when the national parks are opened I'll take a trip to Yo-se-might.
I heard it as "Yo Semite", like "Hello Jewish person".
Smedley said:
There are plenty of videos out there, just Google or YouTube 'Biden mental fitness' or the like.
That's like saying, "Just Google 'Trump is a Nazi' and you'll see I'm right."
Smedley said:
Just yesterday on a Yahoo interview he asked if the questioner was a cocaine junkie and his answer on something about China was gobbledygook.
That was the video where the questioner asked Biden if he would take the same mental acuity test (the one with the picture of the camel and the 5 words). Biden laughed and responded with an analogy about the reporter being asked, "Are you a junkie" and having to take a drug test.
It was a response that someone with mental acuity gives.
In contrast, Trump boasts the he did better than anybody has on a test to see if you have a cognitive disability. As his niece Mary Trump pointed out, if you boast about passing the cognitive ability test, you're failing a test for cognitive ability.
On cognitive ability - Do I expect that President Joe Biden will get up in the morning and get right to work, review briefing materials provided by the staff, address issues that need addressing right away, and make decisions based on the facts? Yes, I do expect that. It will be a nice change from the last 3 and 1/2 years.
nohero said:
Smedley said:
There are plenty of videos out there, just Google or YouTube 'Biden mental fitness' or the like.
That's like saying, "Just Google 'Trump is a Nazi' and you'll see I'm right."
I've stated my subjective opinion which by definition is right to me but necessarily right to other people.
So actually, what I said is not like saying, "Just Google 'Trump is a Nazi' and you'll see I'm right."
Smedley said:
nohero said:
Smedley said:
There are plenty of videos out there, just Google or YouTube 'Biden mental fitness' or the like.
That's like saying, "Just Google 'Trump is a Nazi' and you'll see I'm right."
I've stated my subjective opinion which by definition is right to me but necessarily right to other people.
So actually, what I said is not like saying, "Just Google 'Trump is a Nazi' and you'll see I'm right."
My point was, if you Google "Biden mental fitness" you'll get a bunch of responses purporting to show that Biden is not "mentally fit".
nohero said:
On cognitive ability - Do I expect that President Joe Biden will get up in the morning and get right to work, review briefing materials provided by the staff, address issues that need addressing right away, and make decisions based on the facts? Yes, I do expect that. It will be a nice change from the last 3 and 1/2 years.
Let's go further. If Biden wakes up one morning and feels his "cognitive abilities" are not up to the tasks at hand he will admit it to himself confide it to persons close to him such as his wife and cloe aides and tell them he will have to rely upon them more.
That is an essential difference between Trump and Biden. In fact it is an essential difference between Trump and any normal adult.
Smedley said:
ml1 asked for videos, I told him where to find videos.
You told him to look for "Biden mental fitness" videos, which was the basis for my comment.
Mr. Ml1 is fully capable of finding "Biden *interview* videos" if he wanted to find them for himself, but you specifically directed him to "Biden mental fitness" instead. Again, that was the basis for my comment.
If I were running campaign ads for either side I wouldn't be talking about anything that refers to age or cognitive decline. Either man can be criticized.
I'd simply say, "Who do you want in the courts? The Presidency has a term limit. SCOTUS is for life."
Smedley said:
ml1 asked for videos, I told him where to find videos.
not videos of stumbling over a word. Extended uncut segments in which Biden is speaking incoherently. The way Trump is at all of his rallies.
Smedley said:
I've stated my subjective opinion which by definition is right to me but necessarily right to other people.
sure it's your opinion. But if you want other people to consider it and perhaps be persuaded you need more than that. And your tendency is to back up your opinion with only slightly more than bupkis.
Morganna said:
If I were running campaign ads for either side I wouldn't be talking about anything that refers to age or cognitive decline. Either man can be criticized.
I'd simply say, "Who do you want in the courts? The Presidency has a term limit. SCOTUS is for life."
ml1 said:
not videos of stumbling over a word. Extended uncut segments in which Biden is speaking incoherently. The way Trump is at all of his rallies.
A point made by the Daily Show - Fox News is onto something here... he is NOT okay pic.twitter.com/PgFpVchkdR
ml1 said:
Smedley said:
I've stated my subjective opinion which by definition is right to me but necessarily right to other people.
sure it's your opinion. But if you want other people to consider it and perhaps be persuaded you need more than that. And your tendency is to back up your opinion with only slightly more than bupkis.
Thank you for the posting advice. Stating opinions on online forums is tricky business, but you have clearly mastered it. Your opinions are superior, and sometimes they are so superior that they are even facts (at least in your own mind).
Smedley said:
Thank you for the posting advice. Stating opinions on online forums is tricky business, but you have clearly mastered it. Your opinions are superior, and sometimes they are so superior that they are even facts (at least in your own mind).
you're welcome. and thanks. Your sarcasm aside, there are about ten people who post here whose opinions are superior to yours. Because they bother to do a little research ahead of time. And they don't get pissy and claim they are being "attacked" if someone disagrees with them.
It's not really an "issue" that comes up in campaigns, but the presidency is a really huge job -- too large for a single person, really. As Obama put it in this 2018 article in The Atlantic,
"The first thing I think the American people should be looking for is somebody that can build a team and create a culture that knows how to organize and move the ball down the field. No matter how good you are as president, you are overseeing … the largest organization on Earth. And you can’t do it all by yourself"
If we're talking about what kind of cognitive sharpness and ability is required for the presidency, then I think the most relevant one is how capable the president is of creating a strong team and of delegating. On that score, I haven't seen any reason to fear "cognitive decline" in Biden.
PVW said:
It's not really an "issue" that comes up in campaigns, but the presidency is a really huge job -- too large for a single person, really. As Obama put it in this 2018 article in The Atlantic,
"The first thing I think the American people should be looking for is somebody that can build a team and create a culture that knows how to organize and move the ball down the field. No matter how good you are as president, you are overseeing … the largest organization on Earth. And you can’t do it all by yourself"
If we're talking about what kind of cognitive sharpness and ability is required for the presidency, then I think the most relevant one is how capable the president is of creating a strong team and of delegating. On that score, I haven't seen any reason to fear "cognitive decline" in Biden.
this is an important point. Virtually everyone declines in verbal acuity by age 70, so flubs and gaffes would be expected from both Trump and Biden. But Trump has not demonstrated that he can assemble a competent team and keep it together. In 3+ years he hasn't shown any ability to recruit talent, delegate and lead.
I just googled "smedley cognitive decline" and got 155,00 hits in just 0.54 seconds (and 2,100 videos in just 0.69 seconds). Just saying.
Smedley - please post a full Biden interview which shows whatever it is you're trying to prove. I don't think you'll find anything close to the absurdity of the Axios interview.
Pretty much any Trump speech/interview shows serious mental disorders that you wouldn't want in a president. Joe - I haven't seen anything nearly as scary. But as I said - please post a complete interview caused you the most concern.
There is no full video where Biden is drooling and mumbling to himself the entire time. If that's what you need to see, I can't help you. Again there's a ton of Biden interviews and remarks out there in the public domain. Many hours, many videos. If you haven't seen or heard enough of Biden just from following politics, well then check out some videos and judge for yourself whether he's slipped mentally. I think he has, if others think he hasn't, others are entitled to that opinion.
It's very odd though. You say "whatever it is I'm trying to prove" like I'm coming out here with some wacko, tinfoil hat premise that nobody's ever heard of. Others have said my opinion is "effin absurd" and "preposterous". It's like I have three heads with my opinion, and thus my opinion needs specific evidentiary support because otherwise, well nobody on MOL has the slightest idea of what I'm talking about.
Yet, 38% of voters, and 20% of Democratic voters, think Biden has dementia.
Smedley said:
Yet, 38% of voters, and 20% of Democratic voters, think Biden has dementia.
I, for one, will give that evidence the weight it deserves.
Smedley said:
There is no full video where Biden is drooling and mumbling to himself the entire time. If that's what you need to see, I can't help you. Again there's a ton of Biden interviews and remarks out there in the public domain. Many hours, many videos. If you haven't seen or heard enough of Biden just from following politics, well then check out some videos and judge for yourself whether he's slipped mentally. I think he has, if others think he hasn't, others are entitled to that opinion.
It's very odd though. You say "whatever it is I'm trying to prove" like I'm coming out here with some wacko, tinfoil hat premise that nobody's ever heard of. Others have said my opinion is "effin absurd" and "preposterous". It's like I have three heads with my opinion, and thus my opinion needs specific evidentiary support because otherwise, well nobody on MOL has the slightest idea of what I'm talking about.
Yet, 38% of voters, and 20% of Democratic voters, think Biden has dementia.
polls aren't evidence that someone actually has dementia. It's an indication that a year of right wing messaging that Biden has dementia has some people thinking he does.
What's absurd and preposterous is your assertion that Trump's mental acuity is clearly superior to Biden's. If there's no doubt about Trump's cognitive ability, why was he given the MoCA?
The Montreal test is not a routine screening test in the same way a colonoscopy or a mammogram are, Honig said.“There's no broad consensus that we should be giving MoCA's to people as part of their wellness examination or general annual physical,” he said.
Symptoms that would prompt giving someone the exam include:
patients repeating themselves
losing car keys frequently
forgetting recent events
multiple instances of forgetting conversations
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/mental-health/trump-cognitive-test-what-montreal-cognitive-assessment-exam-n1234762
It's actually a really important distinction that Trump was prescribed the MoCA by his physician and Biden has not been.
oops. Mental decline and all that.