Any updates on the shootings?
Formerlyjerseyjack said:
yahooyahoo said:
They are installing a security system & cameras at Underhill.
--- and that requires two double wides and excavation in the kid's playing field?
The school district has started a massive multi-year upgrade of the facilities. All the elementary schools will be worked on, so the trailers are probably for the work at Clinton Elementary next to Underhill.
Trailers are temporary? Really? FormerlyJerseyjack is estimating the age at Clinton School at 15 years. The ones at Tuscan have been there for more like 30 years. Is 30 years temporary? Not on your life. That's as long as most long term mortgages. What is the matter with our BOA that they do not build proper facilities anymore! I suspect that it is because they spend a lot of capital improvement money on maintenance (shoddy though it may be) and then claim to be impecunious for capital improvement purposes.
These 30 year temporary trailers should be eliminated instead of being added to. Otherwise my grandchildren's own children will be attending school in trailers. I am proud to live in this area, but trailer schools do not speak well of municipal pride.
mrmaplewood said:
Trailers are temporary? Really? FormerlyJerseyjack is estimating the age at Clinton School at 15 years. The ones at Tuscan have been there for more like 30 years. Is 30 years temporary? Not on your life. That's as long as most long term mortgages. What is the matter with our BOA that they do not build proper facilities anymore! I suspect that it is because they spend a lot of capital improvement money on maintenance (shoddy though it may be) and then claim to be impecunious for capital improvement purposes.
These 30 year temporary trailers should be eliminated instead of being added to. Otherwise my grandchildren's own children will be attending school in trailers. I am proud to live in this area, but trailer schools do not speak well of municipal pride.
Mrmaplewood:
Construction trailers have been placed at all the elementary schools because the school district is undertaking a multi-year $160 million upgrade of the facilities.
mrmaplewood said:
Trailers are temporary? Really? FormerlyJerseyjack is estimating the age at Clinton School at 15 years. The ones at Tuscan have been there for more like 30 years. Is 30 years temporary? Not on your life. That's as long as most long term mortgages. What is the matter with our BOA that they do not build proper facilities anymore! I suspect that it is because they spend a lot of capital improvement money on maintenance (shoddy though it may be) and then claim to be impecunious for capital improvement purposes.
These 30 year temporary trailers should be eliminated instead of being added to. Otherwise my grandchildren's own children will be attending school in trailers. I am proud to live in this area, but trailer schools do not speak well of municipal pride.
They are all going to be removed during the renovations. But yes, it would have been great if folks here had pushed for increased funding for the last 25 years instead of leaving it until now.
This thread is supposed to be about the shootings. Start a different one about the schools, please.
It looks like the defendant in the Moussa Fofana murder case, Yohan Hernandez, has agreed to a plea deal with prosecutors. The plea calls for a 15 year sentence.
According to this article, there will be a protest march at 5:30 this evening from Columbia to Maplewood town hall to object to the plea deal.
Jaytee said:
Why go to town hall though?
that’s a good question, since it was not the Maplewood township committee which made the decision to accept a plea.
If I had to guess, I would say it would be to attract attention and build support in Maplewood overall. I don’t think a protest outside the Essex county courthouse would necessarily get noticed or do too much to advance their cause.
mrincredible said:
Jaytee said:
Why go to town hall though?
that’s a good question, since it was not the Maplewood township committee which made the decision to accept a plea.
If I had to guess, I would say it would be to attract attention and build support in Maplewood overall. I don’t think a protest outside the Essex county courthouse would necessarily get noticed or do too much to advance their cause.
It's probably because it's a location for public gatherings, not because there's any link between Township government and decisions by the prosecutor's office.
Isn't it true that prosecutors sometimes offer plea deals when their case isn't a complete slam dunk?
tjohn said:
Isn't it true that prosecutors sometimes offer plea deals when their case isn't a complete slam dunk?
I think this may be one of those cases. I was reading the article from August 2021. Hernandez made a statement but it’s not a straight-up confession. Based on what he said there seems to be uncertainty about who fired the shot which struck and killed Mr Fofana.
I suppose it’s possible that neither the defense nor the prosecution had tremendous confidence in the outcome of the case. The result could have depended on the makeup of the jury. The prosecution might have thought the best they could hope for was something like manslaughter, worst case would be a full acquittal. The defense on the other hand might have been worried about a murder conviction that put their client in prison for life. So they agreed to this deal.
It’s a very unsatisfying result and I can understand the family’s anguish over this. But I can see how this ended up happening.
mrincredible said:
tjohn said:
Isn't it true that prosecutors sometimes offer plea deals when their case isn't a complete slam dunk?
I think this may be one of those cases. I was reading the article from August 2021. Hernandez made a statement but it’s not a straight-up confession. Based on what he said there seems to be uncertainty about who fired the shot which struck and killed Mr Fofana.
I suppose it’s possible that neither the defense nor the prosecution had tremendous confidence in the outcome of the case. The result could have depended on the makeup of the jury. The prosecution might have thought the best they could hope for was something like manslaughter, worst case would be a full acquittal. The defense on the other hand might have been worried about a murder conviction that put their client in prison for life. So they agreed to this deal.
It’s a very unsatisfying result and I can understand the family’s anguish over this. But I can see how this ended up happening.
Last I read, the defendent was claiming self-defense. I assume prosecutors wanted a sure thing, rather than risk the killer walking away free.
"His attorney claimed that Hernandez shot Fofana in self-defense, after Fofana and a friend allegedly chased Hernandez’s younger brother at Underhill Sports Complex in Maplewood on the night of June 6."
yahooyahoo said:
Last I read, the defendent was claiming self-defense. I assume prosecutors wanted a sure thing, rather than risk the killer walking away free.
"His attorney claimed that Hernandez shot Fofana in self-defense, after Fofana and a friend allegedly chased Hernandez’s younger brother at Underhill Sports Complex in Maplewood on the night of June 6."
Thanks For posting this. I had not read it, but it doesn’t surprise me that the defense would use that as an argument.
yahooyahoo said:
mrincredible said:
tjohn said:
Isn't it true that prosecutors sometimes offer plea deals when their case isn't a complete slam dunk?
I think this may be one of those cases. I was reading the article from August 2021. Hernandez made a statement but it’s not a straight-up confession. Based on what he said there seems to be uncertainty about who fired the shot which struck and killed Mr Fofana.
I suppose it’s possible that neither the defense nor the prosecution had tremendous confidence in the outcome of the case. The result could have depended on the makeup of the jury. The prosecution might have thought the best they could hope for was something like manslaughter, worst case would be a full acquittal. The defense on the other hand might have been worried about a murder conviction that put their client in prison for life. So they agreed to this deal.
It’s a very unsatisfying result and I can understand the family’s anguish over this. But I can see how this ended up happening.
Last I read, the defendent was claiming self-defense. I assume prosecutors wanted a sure thing, rather than risk the killer walking away free.
"His attorney claimed that Hernandez shot Fofana in self-defense, after Fofana and a friend allegedly chased Hernandez’s younger brother at Underhill Sports Complex in Maplewood on the night of June 6."
There isn't a great deal of information about this case, and the claim that the shooter was defending his brother from being "chased" only comes from the defense attorney. Even if this were true, there is no claim that Moussa or the other victim had a gun or any other type of weapon, so I'm not sure how they'd be able to justify deadly force. Moreover "chasing" could refer to a thousand different things. Again, there's not even a defense claim that there was a physical encounter prior to the murder.
Of course, we don't know. Maybe the prosecutor has evidence that we're not aware of that would make it difficult to obtain a conviction. Obviously, an acquittal would be a devastating result for Moussa's family and the community. So perhaps the circumstances justify the plea deal. On the other hand, it might be a way for a busy prosecutor's office to resolve what would be an arduous murder case with a substantial sentence, even though it does not seem commensurate with the horror of the crime, at least based on the facts we know.
He claims self defense, but his response was in no way proportional. He had the only gun. I really think the prosecutor just thinks no one cares.
March was the lead story on the six o’clock news this evening (ABC).
Given how long it seemingly took to identify the accused, I also wonder if the prosecution would be relying on reluctant or less than fully credible witnesses? Give the various details, I am not surprised that this is one of the many cases that ens up with plea bargains rather than risk trial, as Painful as that is to friends and family.
This incident reminds me of the ivy hill murders in the schoolyard some years ago. Let’s be real folks, there are gangs operating right under our noses. You might see teenagers late at night in parks and playgrounds and think they’re just hanging out. They have guns. The police know what’s going on , the public, not too much.
This was not a random shooting, there’s much more going on here. In a way I wished it would go to trial and let all the information be public. But a plea deal is like a blanket covering up a more serious issue. Turf wars.
This is rapidly becoming the worst of MOL. Its not a weak case when the shooter admits that he shot the kid, and we know that he had the only gun. And people who know this are excusing the prosecutor by comparing this to other black on black shootings. No, it does not have to be a gang war, no he did not deserve to be shot, no the prosecutor is not automatically right. Stop thinking that Law and Order is real.
Teenagers being robbed at gun point by other teenagers on Parker avenue, or jacoby street is not law and order. For some people who live close to these occurrences have a different perspective. There’s been gangs in Columbia for over 30 years now. One of the top bloods gang member lived right on Hilton avenue. My 3 kids all knew about it, ask any Columbia kid…we have to stop being naïve about this stuff. It’s better we deal with this problem head on before it takes us over. The only time I see cops out is along valley and prospect working the crosswalk for school kids.
A young black man was killed, and you are assuming that it was gang related.
weekends said:
What was the age of the defendant when the shooting happened?
According to this, 20.
DanDietrich said:
A young black man was killed, and you are assuming that it was gang related.
There is not a scintilla of evidence anywhere that this murder was "gang related" or that anyone involved in the incident had any connection to a gang.
we've been in Maplewood for 27 years, and for the entire time, we've been hearing people claiming that gangs are taking over CHS, and by extension the town. I'm not naive enough to think there are no gang members in SOMA. But if the doomsayers of the past two decades had been correct Maplewood would look like Bed-Stuy circa 1985 right now.
We have crime, no doubt. But is our town turning into a dystopian hellhole? No.
Co-sign, here for 33 years.
ml1 said:
we've been in Maplewood for 27 years, and for the entire time, we've been hearing people claiming that gangs are taking over CHS, and by extension the town. I'm not naive enough to think there are no gang members in SOMA. But if the doomsayers of the past two decades had been correct Maplewood would look like Bed-Stuy circa 1985 right now.
We have crime, no doubt. But is our town turning into a dystopian hellhole? No.
chalmers said:
DanDietrich said:
A young black man was killed, and you are assuming that it was gang related.
There is not a scintilla of evidence anywhere that this murder was "gang related" or that anyone involved in the incident had any connection to a gang.
I am not assuming that this was gang related, since I've heard no evidence of it. I am assuming that plea bargains sometimes happen when there is a risk in going to trial. Given a self-defense claim (people do sometimes avoid punishment due to dubious self-defense claims), potentially reluctant witnesses, etc., I suspect there is a risk if going to trial here. So, as much as I understand the anger over a plea, I'm not going to join a rush to demonize or second guess the prosecution.
(and yes, like others here, I have spent the last 25 years listening to the racially-tinged fears that SOMA was about to be consumed by gang activities if we didn't "do something", whether the something was dress codes, harsher policing, an intensive hunt for students who reside out-of-district, stronger punishments for school transgressions, armed guards in schools, etc.)
I feel for the family and friends on this issue. Every bereaved family wants the longest possible sentence, and the judicial system has to make tough decisions about how to manage cases, and which to take to trial. If the Essex County courts need more staff, we should push to add staff, and not complain when it raises our taxes a bit. If County lawyers are making racist decisions on which cases to take to trial, then this should be documented and dealt with.
And we should all be active in addressing the increasing American cultural drive to bear arms and to normalize their use as an option whenever someone feels threatened.
I agree with these sentiments. In addition, I have heard that there may be a suspicion of the prosecution and police in Essex County, which sometimes makes it difficult to to obtain the most hoped for jury verdict, if any.
susan1014 said:
I am not assuming that this was gang related, since I've heard no evidence of it. I am assuming that plea bargains sometimes happen when there is a risk in going to trial. Given a self-defense claim (people do sometimes avoid punishment due to dubious self-defense claims), potentially reluctant witnesses, etc., I suspect there is a risk if going to trial here. So, as much as I understand the anger over a plea, I'm not going to join a rush to demonize or second guess the prosecution.
(and yes, like others here, I have spent the last 25 years listening to the racially-tinged fears that SOMA was about to be consumed by gang activities if we didn't "do something", whether the something was dress codes, harsher policing, an intensive hunt for students who reside out-of-district, stronger punishments for school transgressions, armed guards in schools, etc.)
I feel for the family and friends on this issue. Every bereaved family wants the longest possible sentence, and the judicial system has to make tough decisions about how to manage cases, and which to take to trial. If the Essex County courts need more staff, we should push to add staff, and not complain when it raises our taxes a bit. If County lawyers are making racist decisions on which cases to take to trial, then this should be documented and dealt with.
And we should all be active in addressing the increasing American cultural drive to bear arms and to normalize their use as an option whenever someone feels threatened.
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--- and that requires two double wides and excavation in the kid's playing field?