America, is this the best you can do?

Ligeti, why not get your man Jerry Jones involved, I'm sure he could solve this.

My kids call Penn Station "Stinky Penn Station". Pretty much sums it up.

Penn Station is the pit of hell. When I commuted to the city it really was such a depressing start and end to the day. Even when the trains were actually on time!

The egress from the 8am train from Maplewood is unbearable enough, but to have conductors shouting on the loudspeakers, scolding passengers who dare to walk through the train, is really beyond the pale.

ligeti said:

This is not what a superpower looks like. It's what a Third World country looks like. We should not be policing the world. Instead, we should fix our roads, bridges and escalators. Can you imagine the French being clueless about how to fix an escalator at Orly?

Sad.

It's telling that they have a fancy, permanent looking sign that reads "Escalator Under Repair," as if they expect to be using it. A lot.

yonti2323 said:

It's really an embarrassment. They could've built one from scratch in less time. But I guess ancient escalator technology is too advanced for the MTA.

While the TA has a legendary inability to keep escalators in the subway operating, Penn Station is entirely owned and maintained by Amtrak. The MTA only controls the LIRR Concourse and obviously the subway stations.

My feeling is that for all its faults, the LIRR Concourse and Grand Central are so superior in all regards is they have far more connection to those using their facilities, and will pay a political price for the embarrassing conditions Amtrak allows.

Amtrak's NE Corridor HQ is in 30th Street Station (Philly) so it's well removed from the abysmal conditions in NYP. Even at the 7th Ave Concourse, the problems there are mostly beyond NJT's control, namely broken escalators/elevators and inability to post track assignments more than a minute before departure. NJT's responsibility ends when you take a step below concourse level.

As for comparisons to Europe, which should also include every other developed and several underdeveloped countries, ours is the only among them who's National passenger railroad is constantly under threat of extinction. With it's dangerously outmoded and massively underfunded rail infrastructure, it's understandable, but not excusable, how stations get forgotten.

Depending on who's analysis you prefer, the US either no longer ranks ad a developed nation in terms of infrastructure, or will soon drop from those ranks. That being the case, I'm not sure how we can claim to be a developed nation any longer.

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/articles/2014/01/04/american-infrastructure-gets-new-wakeup-call?onswipe_redirect=never

There are many excuses and solutions thrown about, but the only one that will work is a whole lot of money. The American Society of Civil Engineers estimates $3.6 trillion must be spent by 2020 just to put what exists in a state of good repair for the future. Of course without spending on maintenance, which is how we got here, we'll be back in the same leaky boat even if that sum miraculously materializes.

As for our own state, we have about $2 billion in yearly transportation repair needs. With the Transportation Trust Fund about to run dry due to craven cowardice that's left our gas tax untouched for 26 years, by next month all state funded transportation maintenance and repairs will end unless immediate action is taken.

I suggest a theme song for the imminent collapse...

http://youtu.be/lOEIRI5HSuQ

I thought that Ligeti was a stairs man and would welcome broken escalators as a means of getting some exercise into those decadent Americans.

Freeway said:

ridski said:

Caution: Escalator temporarily stairs.

Sorry for the convenience

Can't help but think of that Hedberg line anytime when someone mentions an escalator.

Shadeaux said:

Freeway said:

ridski said:

Caution: Escalator temporarily stairs.

Sorry for the convenience

Can't help but think of that Hedberg line anytime when someone mentions an escalator.

That and when I am somewhere like a comiccon or trade show and some staff member tries to move a line of people out of a route of egress by saying "folks we have to move, we're blocking a fire exit"

If you are flammable and have legs, you are NEVER blocking a fire exit.

Get use to public system failures like this . The MTA like many public service entities is essentialy broke it survives on a constant stream of municipal bond issuance . Salary , heathcare and pensions eat up nearly all of it's budget. The MTA like NJ Transit is looking to raise fares. As petty as it seems events like this are job actions . Can a new escalator be installed in a month , of course.

Yes, but our country has plenty of money for things like the useless F-35 fighter.

People want something but are not willing to pay for it. Fares should be set at a level that covers proper operation so are too low currently. Sorry.

Build it and they will complain.

scott_clark said:

Build it and they will complain.

If you think Penn Station is fine as is, I would seriously question your judgment.

Maintenance issues not withstanding (escalators in the most beautiful building in the world could fail) Penn Station is ugly but gets the job done. It is not like there have been no improvements to its function.

When I first started commuting to it, there was no direct LIRR exit to 34th street and there was no 7th Avenue NJT concourse or 31st street exit. Now they are building much needed stairs at the west end of NJT platforms and new exits to the street.

Penn Station is bad, but Port Authority Bus Terminal is, too. I can't decide which is worse.

marylago, even with the abuse that people commit against the escalators, a mechanic ought to know how to fix them. Is it really true they don't know what parts to order? How can that be?

I think Port Authority is leaps and bounds better than Penn. At least the main levels feel spacious and open. However, the bathrooms in both places are the seventh ring of Hell.

Having used both I I'll say the Port Authority is much worse. Yes there are some more spacious central areas but the bus loading and unloading areas are chaos.

mjh said:

scott_clark said:

Build it and they will complain.

If you think Penn Station is fine as is, I would seriously question your judgment.

Thank you ever so much for that heartfelt comment. God bless,

I don't think trying to choose between Penn Station and the Port Authority is an exercise worth pursuing. Both suck. There are plenty of cities (even in the U.S.!) that appear to know how to design a useful, attractive train station. I guess Penn is so awful because it grew up piecemeal instead of being a single, well-thought-out plan, but still... god, what a mess. And a disgusting mess at that.

norman said:

I thought that Ligeti was a stairs man and would welcome broken escalators as a means of getting some exercise into those decadent Americans.

Good point - but logic doesn't tend to visit the Ligeti threads for more than a fleeting moment.

I'm still anxious about the deplorable state of some of the European train stations and what Ligeti is going to do about it.

)

ram said:

People want something but are not willing to pay for it. Fares should be set at a level that covers proper operation so are too low currently. Sorry.

I want to agree, but we're talking about Amtrak. They (Amtrak) should be allowed to terminate their money pit long-haul service and focus on places they make (or could reasonably expect to make) money. Of course, that'll never happen.

Alfa75 . And it wouldn't even have a gun untill at least 2018

Certainly Amtrak should not be required to continue runs that are not profitable. The US is too big to have a profitable long haul network at any speed. Air at the high end and bus at the low end will always squeeze it out. But high speed rail in corridors (DC to Boston through NYC, San Diego to San Francisco through LA, the Texas triangle) could work well.

ram said:

People want something but are not willing to pay for it. Fares should be set at a level that covers proper operation so are too low currently. Sorry.

You mean like the roads, right? You agree that the gas tax should be raised?

No, sell off the roads to private parties (preferably friends and be sure to give them the friends and family discount) and let the market set the prices.

Tom_Reingold said:

Penn Station is bad, but Port Authority Bus Terminal is, too. I can't decide which is worse.

marylago, even with the abuse that people commit against the escalators, a mechanic ought to know how to fix them. Is it really true they don't know what parts to order? How can that be?

The mechanics can fix them, but it's a constant battle. Like all the time. Food and gum and coffee and other liquids, not to mention what I don't even want to think about... Imagine if every time you drove, someone was constantly dropping food and wrappers and liquids onto your fan belt. I'd be willing to bet it'd stop working pretty soon...

marylago said:

ram said:

People want something but are not willing to pay for it. Fares should be set at a level that covers proper operation so are too low currently. Sorry.

You mean like the roads, right? You agree that the gas tax should be raised?

I do. Or even better all highways should be metered. As much as possible everything should be fee for service rather than coming from a general pot.