"Pocahontas" Pwns President

How does a Harvard Law Professor not know that 1/1024th does not qualify you as a Native American?

Talk about stupid.

Robert_Casotto said:
How does a Harvard Law Professor not know that 1/1024th does not qualify you as a Native American?


Talk about stupid.

 Let me play devil's advocate and ask: so how much Native American ancestry does one need to claim to be Native American?

Does the fact that the Cherokee tribe eschews DNA tests affect your answer?

Smedley said:

ml1 said:

Smedley said:
It would be a non-story if it were purely a family legend thing. But it's a story (and it has been for years), because she has claimed minority status in her career endeavours.
Did she benefit from making such specious claims?  That answer appears to be no.
But was her reason for making the claims to put herself in a position to gain personal benefit? Quite possibly. Her supporters would say no, but her critics would say yes. 
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/elizabeth-warren-wealthy-native-american/

the article you're citing says there is no evidence that Warren ever claimed minority status to get a job.  "Her critics" are saying the opposite with no evidence.

Right, but there is evidence that she checked a box for Minority/Native American, which leaves her motivation for doing so open for interpretation. 
Let me ask you this -- if she didn't check the box as a way to personally benefit (even if she didn't end up personally benefiting), why do you reckon she checked the box?

 the article does not say that at all.  There is no evidence that she claimed to be anything other than white in her applications.

The only passage in that article which suggests otherwise is an unsubstantiated claim from Scott Brown.

Directly from the article:

"it is true that while Warren was at U. Penn. Law School she put herself on the “Minority Law Teacher” list as Native American) in the faculty directory of the Association of American Law Schools"

Smedley said:
Directly from the article:
"it is true that while Warren was at U. Penn. Law School she put herself on the “Minority Law Teacher” list as Native American) in the faculty directory of the Association of American Law Schools"

 that was apparently after she was already hired.  The article that you yourself cited concludes the opposite of what you are claiming.  The Boston Globe recently did an extensive review of Warren's professional career and concluded this:

At every step of her remarkable rise in the legal profession, the people responsible for hiring her saw her as a white woman.

Smedley said:
Directly from the article:
"it is true that while Warren was at U. Penn. Law School she put herself on the “Minority Law Teacher” list as Native American) in the faculty directory of the Association of American Law Schools"

 To help the law school attract applicants, probably.  Not to get herself hired.

FYI... from the editor of Cherokee Phoenix.

This is [the Indian] reality. We are faced with an onslaught of people who have never lived in our shoes saying, “Those are my shoes too,” simply because they spit into a small, hermetically sealed glass tube and got back DNA results that say they are 7 percent Native American.

Too often, Native Americans hear the words “I took a DNA test and …” Too often, our heritage and racial identity has been co-opted by others for monetary gain, to claim some exoticism in their identity, or simply because someone wanted an excuse to wear a really pretty Halloween costume. But Native identity is not just about tracing a distant ancestor back to our tribe. It’s about cultural heritage, our shared experiences, and participating in our community.

https://www.vox.com/first-person/2018/10/17/17985886/elizabeth-warren-claims-native-american-descent

I can't believe all the people falling for the pitiful GOP counter-attack that this makes Senator Warren look bad.  

I was the Republicans, all the time, who made a big deal about this.  The slimy Scott Brown started it, and Trump grabbed it.  Trump took it to even lower levels of scumminess (remember when he referenced her with a "Pocahontas crack in a ceremony honoring Navajo code talkers?).  All Warren did was say, "Fine, if you think DNA is so important, here it is."  She never says that makes her eligible for tribal membership (she says the exact opposite).  If she hadn't done this, Trump would keep on with his disgusting cracks about it and his fans would keep cheering for it.

The new line, that DNA means nothing and that Warren is disrespectful to Native Americans, is a load of cr*p that nobody should dignify by criticizing Warren.  She never said DNA was important, the Trump fanatics did.  It's ridiculous to let the GOP get away with pretending that they're not responsible for whatever "disrespect" anybody sees in all of this.

nohero said:

Smedley said:
Directly from the article:
"it is true that while Warren was at U. Penn. Law School she put herself on the “Minority Law Teacher” list as Native American) in the faculty directory of the Association of American Law Schools"

 To help the law school attract applicants, probably.  Not to get herself hired.

From a 2012 Boston Globe article:

US Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren said on Wednesday that she listed herself as a minority in directories of law professors in the hopes of networking with other “people like me” — meaning those with Native American roots.

Asked whether she considers herself to be a minority, the Democrat said, “Native American is part of my family. It’s an important part of my heritage.”

ml1 said:

 that was apparently after she was already hired.  The article that you yourself cited concludes the opposite of what you are claiming.  

 So far on this thread my claims have been:

1. The Warren brouhaha is a story, not a non-story

2. Warren at some point claimed minority/Native American status. 

Please advise as to how the Snopes piece "concludes the opposite" of either of these two claims. Or if I made any other claims on this thread beyond the two I cite here.   

Robert_Casotto said:
How does a Harvard Law Professor not know that 1/1024th does not qualify you as a Native American?


Talk about stupid.

 More like "How does she get baited into doing the DNA test?" 

Starting to feel like dems are going to flub this easy layup in '20. Joe's great but too old and establishment; Booker equaled Warren's error when he labeled himself Spartacus. 

Kamala? Maybe. 

nohero said:

Smedley said:
Directly from the article:
"it is true that while Warren was at U. Penn. Law School she put herself on the “Minority Law Teacher” list as Native American) in the faculty directory of the Association of American Law Schools"

 To help the law school attract applicants, probably.  Not to get herself hired.

 Possibly. But that's not above-board either. 

While it was an odd claim for her to make - it came from somewhere - she'll be running against a man with multiple accusations of sexual assault, an admission of sexual assault on video tape, multiple campaign associates who have been found guilty or accepted a plea deal, and has multiple tax evasion charges pending.

I don't see how people consider her claim of NA heritage, which has scientifically been confirmed, as disqualifying.

Smedley said:

ml1 said:

 that was apparently after she was already hired.  The article that you yourself cited concludes the opposite of what you are claiming.  

 So far on this thread my claims have been:
1. The Warren brouhaha is a story, not a non-story
2. Warren at some point claimed minority/Native American status. 
Please advise as to how the Snopes piece "concludes the opposite" of either of these two claims. Or if I made any other claims on this thread beyond the two I cite here.   

 You wrote: "But was her reason for making the claims to put herself in a position to gain personal benefit? Quite possibly."  I think it's not "quite possibly" at all.  I can't speak for Mr. ml1, of course.

Smedley said:

ml1 said:

 that was apparently after she was already hired.  The article that you yourself cited concludes the opposite of what you are claiming.  

 So far on this thread my claims have been:
1. The Warren brouhaha is a story, not a non-story
2. Warren at some point claimed minority/Native American status. 
Please advise as to how the Snopes piece "concludes the opposite" of either of these two claims. Or if I made any other claims on this thread beyond the two I cite here.   

 you claimed she checked off a box to gain personal benefit.  The article says that she specifically checked boxes on applications that said "no" she is not a minority and that she is "white."  Everyone who ever hired her considered her to be white.

What "personal benefit" did she gain?  None that I can discern.  And your own citation concludes the same thing that I do.

Smedley said:

nohero said:

Smedley said:
Directly from the article:
"it is true that while Warren was at U. Penn. Law School she put herself on the “Minority Law Teacher” list as Native American) in the faculty directory of the Association of American Law Schools"

 To help the law school attract applicants, probably.  Not to get herself hired.

 Possibly. But that's not above-board either. 

 Really?  What's wrong with saying "There's someone here who respects your heritage, even though we're an Ivy League school that you may think is filled with white guys who make fun of you"?

As someone said earlier, if you have to justify/prove/defend your minority status, better to drop it.

I think the issue is that folks look at her "extreme whiteness" and roll their eyes.  

Smedley said:

nohero said:

Smedley said:
Directly from the article:
"it is true that while Warren was at U. Penn. Law School she put herself on the “Minority Law Teacher” list as Native American) in the faculty directory of the Association of American Law Schools"

 To help the law school attract applicants, probably.  Not to get herself hired.

 Possibly. But that's not above-board either. 

 jeebus.  You're slicing the baloney awful thin here.

DaveSchmidt said:

nohero said:

Smedley said:
Directly from the article:
"it is true that while Warren was at U. Penn. Law School she put herself on the “Minority Law Teacher” list as Native American) in the faculty directory of the Association of American Law Schools"

 To help the law school attract applicants, probably.  Not to get herself hired.

From a 2012 Boston Globe article:
US Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren said on Wednesday that she listed herself as a minority in directories of law professors in the hopes of networking with other “people like me” — meaning those with Native American roots.
Asked whether she considers herself to be a minority, the Democrat said, “Native American is part of my family. It’s an important part of my heritage.”

 I guess I don't understand if I should respond.  She never said anything to the contrary, and what she said does NOT justify the Trump mocking or anybody criticizing her for taking steps to push back against Trump (and the people who believe the cr*p that he puts out).

ml1 said:

Smedley said:

nohero said:

Smedley said:
Directly from the article:
"it is true that while Warren was at U. Penn. Law School she put herself on the “Minority Law Teacher” list as Native American) in the faculty directory of the Association of American Law Schools"

 To help the law school attract applicants, probably.  Not to get herself hired.

 Possibly. But that's not above-board either. 

 jeebus.  You're slicing the baloney awful thin here.

 Hey, it's not as bad as making gullible people think your buildings have more floors than they actually do.

nohero said:

Smedley said:

ml1 said:

 that was apparently after she was already hired.  The article that you yourself cited concludes the opposite of what you are claiming.  

 So far on this thread my claims have been:
1. The Warren brouhaha is a story, not a non-story
2. Warren at some point claimed minority/Native American status. 
Please advise as to how the Snopes piece "concludes the opposite" of either of these two claims. Or if I made any other claims on this thread beyond the two I cite here.   

 You wrote: "But was her reason for making the claims to put herself in a position to gain personal benefit? Quite possibly."  I think it's not "quite possibly" at all.  I can't speak for Mr. ml1, of course.

 Geez. So saying something is possible is a claim?  Boy I really pounded the table on this one. So very opinionated and leaving no room for doubt. 

GL2 said:
As someone said earlier, if you have to justify/prove/defend your minority status, better to drop it.
I think the issue is that folks look at her "extreme whiteness" and roll their eyes.  

 The point was, she was being attacked for saying what she said.  All she did was respond.  She's not saying she's a tribal member, she's saying that she wasn't lying (and her family wasn't lying) when passing on family lore.  Sheesh, why don't we go all the way and congratulate Trump for the great job he did turning the economy around from the Obama disaster?

GL2 said:
As someone said earlier, if you have to justify/prove/defend your minority status, better to drop it.
I think the issue is that folks look at her "extreme whiteness" and roll their eyes.  

how many of us know our heritage beyond what our parents told us?  Do we know the full story of every single person in the family tree going back 3 or 4 generations?  How many of us have taken DNA tests?

It's a silly and stupid controversy that is actually a really great example of how our politics have become fixated on stupid trivia.  Does anyone really believe that Elizabeth Warren's family hasn't been telling these family legends to themselves for generations?  Does anyone really believe that she made this up out of whole cloth?  For what reason?  She never claimed minority status for a job or for any other advantage.

The whole controversy just shows how stupid we are as a country when it comes to politics when such an issue is seen as disqualifying.  Especially considering who's in the White House today.

Look, Trump is trash and Warren is a brilliant progressive. But those descriptors don't seem to matter anymore. GOPers love what Trump has gifted them with and don't seem to mind the overt racism that inspired this attack. 

nohero said:

I guess I don't understand if I should respond.  

 Your response is up to you. Mine was: “Huh, I learned something. It doesn’t really sound like it was to attract applicants. It sounds like it was this. Maybe others will appreciate it, too.” 

ml1 said:

Smedley said:

ml1 said:

 that was apparently after she was already hired.  The article that you yourself cited concludes the opposite of what you are claiming.  

 So far on this thread my claims have been:
1. The Warren brouhaha is a story, not a non-story
2. Warren at some point claimed minority/Native American status. 
Please advise as to how the Snopes piece "concludes the opposite" of either of these two claims. Or if I made any other claims on this thread beyond the two I cite here.   

 you claimed she checked off a box to gain personal benefit.  

 No, I didn't claim she checked off a box to gain personal benefit.

I claimed she checked off a box and it's possible she did so to gain personal benefit.

Do you not see the difference?  

Let's not forget the very unhelpful statement by Cherokee Nation official.

Another element (IMO) is the broader and well-established romanticism of claims of Native American ancestry and the many people who claim it.

Smedley said:
 Geez. So saying something is possible is a claim?  Boy I really pounded the table on this one. So very opinionated and leaving no room for doubt. 

 it's not the "quite possible" part that I was arguing with.  It was your direct claim that there was evidence she actually "checked a box" on an application.  Which the article you yourself cited concluded there was no evidence for.

Smedley said:
Right, but there is evidence that she checked a box for Minority/Native American, which leaves her motivation for doing so open for interpretation. 
Let me ask you this -- if she didn't check the box as a way to personally benefit (even if she didn't end up personally benefiting), why do you reckon she checked the box?

why cite snopes or any other source if you're going to conclude that it says the opposite of what it actually says?

She wasn't ever going to get far. And if this is indicative of how she would run a campaign, good riddance.