Thoughts on Summit schools archived
Oct 10, 2011 at 1:12pm
I sent a link to this thread to someone I know who lives in Summit. I believe all four of his kids go to the public schools.
Hahaha - I lived in Summit for a while and it's really an interesting setup regarding public schools. The public schools are excellent and well funded. However the majority of Summit kids to go private schools - Oak Knoll, Delbarton etc. It's interesting. The local high school only has 500 kids or so. There are some surprisingly poorer areas of Summit and those are the kids that go to the local high school.
I interviewed for a teaching job in Summit and I was very impressed with the administration. Not sure what it is really like to be there, but they say all the right things. They champion Diane Ratvich's current vision of a quality education, emphasizing the arts. (http://www.amazon.com/Death-Great-American-School-System/dp/0465025579/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1318293566&sr=8-1). They emphasize diversity, although they are less diverse than we are. The kids make films about it.
Ceidefields,
I'm not sure where you got your statistics, but Summit High School has over 1000 students and is projected to have nearly 1300 by 2014. Certainly there are people who send their children to private schools (including the mayor) but the majority send their children to public school (including film director Alex Gibney, Jim Cramer of Mad Money, and Rex Ryan, coach of the Jets).
I'm not sure where you got your statistics, but Summit High School has over 1000 students and is projected to have nearly 1300 by 2014. Certainly there are people who send their children to private schools (including the mayor) but the majority send their children to public school (including film director Alex Gibney, Jim Cramer of Mad Money, and Rex Ryan, coach of the Jets).
I know two families who moved to Summit specifically because they researched all of the schools and found Summit to have the highest average education for teachers and to be the most responsive for special needs children. Both families are very happy with their choice.
Oct 10, 2011 at 4:33pm Edited
ceidefields said:
There are some surprisingly poorer areas of Summit and those are the kids that go to the local high school.
I can't imagine why you would say that. Source, please.
Two of my nephews went to an independent school N-8 and were fortunate to have an array of private choices for HS. They were quite happy and challenged at Summit HS, with the benefit of a larger cohort and more choices of classes, clubs, teams and resources. Recent renovations have modernized it.
http://nces.ed.gov/ccd/schoolsearch/school_detail.asp?Search=1&DistrictID=3415900&ID=341590005708
We're in Summit. I have a son in K. He attended public pre-k last year. So far, we've been very happy with the quality of the teachers, their availability to us if we have questions/concerns, the amounts and methods of communication from the teaching staff and the school administration. As of now, we plan to send all of our kids through the Summit public school system.
I have friends who live in Summit and pulled their two older kids out of the district due to some serious anti-intellectual bullying in the high school. All 3 of their kids are VERY bright, highly motivated, good kids. The oldest had repeated experiences of having his work ridiculed and literally torn up by peers. This kid is well-spoken, an athlete and has a keen sense of humor. His parents tried several times to get the administration to deal with the problem. He was starting to shy away from school performance altogether. His parents sent him and his sister to Newark Academy instead.
I believe Boomie also had some negative experiences in the schools that were pooh-poohed by administration.
I believe Boomie also had some negative experiences in the schools that were pooh-poohed by administration.
nakaille said:
I have friends who live in Summit and pulled their two older kids out of the district due to some serious anti-intellectual bullying in the high school. All 3 of their kids are VERY bright, highly motivated, good kids. The oldest had repeated experiences of having his work ridiculed and literally torn up by peers. This kid is well-spoken, an athlete and has a keen sense of humor. His parents tried several times to get the administration to deal with the problem. He was starting to shy away from school performance altogether. His parents sent him and his sister to Newark Academy instead.
I believe Boomie also had some negative experiences in the schools that were pooh-poohed by administration.
Yes. We had some terrible bullying issues with my son in grades 3 and 4, and took him out for that reason. I wish I could add to the positive sentiments, but after that experience I'd never put my kid into that school system again. They are a decade behind in anti bullying education.
In general the Summit schools are excelent. they have wonderful resources, and very high standards. While most of Summit is quite wealthy, and there are very very few poor people, there is more economic diversity than in Short Hills or Chatham. I believe that while most Summit students are high achievers, there is a bit more diversity in academic achievement in Summit than you might find in Chatham or Short Hills, but still less than in Maplewood or South Orange.
Ceidefields does not know what he/she is talking about. Yes, there are several private schools in Summit - but by far, the vast majority of children in Summit attend public school. The two private schools that offer primary education, Kent Place which is all girls, and Oak Knoll which is co-ed through 8th grade, have perhaps 34 students in each elementary grade - and by far the majority of the students there are from outside of Summit.
As for poor people - While there are many very expenseive areas in Summit, there are moderately priced areas as well. I would say that the population of "poor" people is very very small. There are no "poor" areas of summit. While most of the housing in Summit is quite expensive, and much of summit would be considered Upper middle class at the very least, there are also moderately priced neighborhoods that at one time might have been considered "working class".
There are 5 elementary schools in Summit, Jefferson, Washington, Franklin, Brayton and Lincoln Hubbard. Check schooldigger.com or greatschools.com for the facts and test scores. The perception ( which I do not agree with) is that quality varies widely between schools and some are "good" while others are not. Is this true, I don;t know - but that is what many people think. Brayton and Franklin schools are in affluent areas and are very much in demand. Lincoln Hubbard is located in the most expensive area of summit and has many children attending who live in multi-million dollar homes, but there are also two very small subsidized housing complexes and children who live there attend Lincoln Hubbard as well, so you have the most well off, and those of the most modest means attending the same school. Washington and Jefferson schools are in nice neighborhoods ( there are no bad neighborhoods in summit) but the homes are more moderately priced. Jefferson is in what was once considered the "blue collar" section of town. Some people will say that the other Summit elementary schools are superior to those two, but many others would disagree.
All in all Summit is a wonderful community - and for the most part, the homes in Summit are comparable in price to those in Short Hills. Many people who look for homes in Short Hills also look in Summit. There is a very significant difference between what you will pay for a home in Summit and what you would pay for the same home in Maplewood or South Orange. In general Maplewood and South Orange have similar values, and Short hills and Summit also have similar values - which are much higher than Mapelwood and S. Orange. Chatham also has a very very highly rated school district - and the prices are similar to Short Hills and Summit. Chatham is actually two towns ( Chatham Township and Chatham Borough) but one school district. If you will be commuting to Manhattan you should be aware that South Orange has a wait list to park at the train station that is several years long. If you live in Chatham BOROUGH you can get a permit to park at the Chatham train station - but if you live in Chatham TOWNSHIP - you will be limited to the metered spaces which are full by 6;30 am. Chatham Borough is very small - centered around the downtown. Right now there are only 33 houses for sale in Chatham Borough.
So, good luck in your search - I hope this helps.
Ceidefields does not know what he/she is talking about. Yes, there are several private schools in Summit - but by far, the vast majority of children in Summit attend public school. The two private schools that offer primary education, Kent Place which is all girls, and Oak Knoll which is co-ed through 8th grade, have perhaps 34 students in each elementary grade - and by far the majority of the students there are from outside of Summit.
As for poor people - While there are many very expenseive areas in Summit, there are moderately priced areas as well. I would say that the population of "poor" people is very very small. There are no "poor" areas of summit. While most of the housing in Summit is quite expensive, and much of summit would be considered Upper middle class at the very least, there are also moderately priced neighborhoods that at one time might have been considered "working class".
There are 5 elementary schools in Summit, Jefferson, Washington, Franklin, Brayton and Lincoln Hubbard. Check schooldigger.com or greatschools.com for the facts and test scores. The perception ( which I do not agree with) is that quality varies widely between schools and some are "good" while others are not. Is this true, I don;t know - but that is what many people think. Brayton and Franklin schools are in affluent areas and are very much in demand. Lincoln Hubbard is located in the most expensive area of summit and has many children attending who live in multi-million dollar homes, but there are also two very small subsidized housing complexes and children who live there attend Lincoln Hubbard as well, so you have the most well off, and those of the most modest means attending the same school. Washington and Jefferson schools are in nice neighborhoods ( there are no bad neighborhoods in summit) but the homes are more moderately priced. Jefferson is in what was once considered the "blue collar" section of town. Some people will say that the other Summit elementary schools are superior to those two, but many others would disagree.
All in all Summit is a wonderful community - and for the most part, the homes in Summit are comparable in price to those in Short Hills. Many people who look for homes in Short Hills also look in Summit. There is a very significant difference between what you will pay for a home in Summit and what you would pay for the same home in Maplewood or South Orange. In general Maplewood and South Orange have similar values, and Short hills and Summit also have similar values - which are much higher than Mapelwood and S. Orange. Chatham also has a very very highly rated school district - and the prices are similar to Short Hills and Summit. Chatham is actually two towns ( Chatham Township and Chatham Borough) but one school district. If you will be commuting to Manhattan you should be aware that South Orange has a wait list to park at the train station that is several years long. If you live in Chatham BOROUGH you can get a permit to park at the Chatham train station - but if you live in Chatham TOWNSHIP - you will be limited to the metered spaces which are full by 6;30 am. Chatham Borough is very small - centered around the downtown. Right now there are only 33 houses for sale in Chatham Borough.
So, good luck in your search - I hope this helps.
To add to Sarahzm's very comprehensive post - about 15% of Summit's students qualify for free or reduced lunch. Most people do not realize how economically diverse Summit is, its not just Beacon Hill. Its also not Maplewood, which is why I live here!
Sarahzm, this is off topic, but as a realtor you need to be aware that the parking permit situation in South Orange has changed dramatically in the last year or two, and that there are now a number of resident parking areas with very short/no wait list. They just aren't in the main rescue squad lot.
Those of us who were on the very long wait lists have (I believe) all been offered spots and purged from the wait lists if we refused them. I personally was offered two different resident permit options over the last year, and am now no longer on the wait list as I didn't take them (since I'm currently not commuting). Neither of them were as appealing as Lot 7 behind the rescue squad, but either of them would have been acceptable if I really needed the parking.
Those of us who were on the very long wait lists have (I believe) all been offered spots and purged from the wait lists if we refused them. I personally was offered two different resident permit options over the last year, and am now no longer on the wait list as I didn't take them (since I'm currently not commuting). Neither of them were as appealing as Lot 7 behind the rescue squad, but either of them would have been acceptable if I really needed the parking.
Chatham/Morris County taxes. Summit/Union County taxes. Both better than Millburn/Maplewood/Essex County taxes. Thinking about schools, with taxes/house prices/performance being the primary thoughts? Maybe Chatham.
I'd rather live west, pay a little more, and get a guaranteed seat than stand into NY.
thank you Susan. I am aware of the change. I believe the wait list used to be estimated at between 4 to 7 years. I belived that the wait list had been eliminated but was told several months ago by someone in local government ( it might have been Michael Goldberg) that there is still a wait list, just a much shorter one.
If you are looking for the easiest commute into Manhattan, I've heard that Summit has everyone else beat. You have your choice between several trains that originate there, and several that go express directly from Summit to Penn Station with no stops in between.
If you are looking for the lowest taxes, Chatham and Madison ( also worth looking at) would be your best choices.
Shortest train ride - Maplewood and South Orange.
Most activist down to earth population - with an artsy flavor and high "cool" factor - South Orange and Maplewood
best Downtown - Maplewood, Chatham and Madison - but Eden Gourmet makes South Orange a contender
Best sledding hill - South Orange - floods hill
If you want a wall Street vibe - Summit & Short Hills - live there and your neighbors may be the very people the Occupy Wall St people are protesting against.
Town where your neighbor is most likely to have a Grammy or Emmy sitting in the bookcase - Maplewood and SOuth Orange.
Towns where kids can walk everywhere - most of Maplewood, most of Chatham Borough, Most of Madison, about 1/2 of South Orange, some of Millburn/Short hills.
Into golf ??? Millburn/Short Hills has a par 3 course for its residents.
Best athletic facilities - Summit YMCA - but you don't have to live in Summit to belong. The JCC in West Orange is pretty amazing.
"Greenest" town - Maplewood by far - they have solar panels on the telephone poles and the only "green" police station in the state.
If you are looking for the lowest taxes, Chatham and Madison ( also worth looking at) would be your best choices.
Shortest train ride - Maplewood and South Orange.
Most activist down to earth population - with an artsy flavor and high "cool" factor - South Orange and Maplewood
best Downtown - Maplewood, Chatham and Madison - but Eden Gourmet makes South Orange a contender
Best sledding hill - South Orange - floods hill
If you want a wall Street vibe - Summit & Short Hills - live there and your neighbors may be the very people the Occupy Wall St people are protesting against.
Town where your neighbor is most likely to have a Grammy or Emmy sitting in the bookcase - Maplewood and SOuth Orange.
Towns where kids can walk everywhere - most of Maplewood, most of Chatham Borough, Most of Madison, about 1/2 of South Orange, some of Millburn/Short hills.
Into golf ??? Millburn/Short Hills has a par 3 course for its residents.
Best athletic facilities - Summit YMCA - but you don't have to live in Summit to belong. The JCC in West Orange is pretty amazing.
"Greenest" town - Maplewood by far - they have solar panels on the telephone poles and the only "green" police station in the state.
New Jersey now has the most stringent anti-bullying policies on the books. No school system can ignore bullying and they must write up reports based on a full investigation of every alleged incident. It's a huge amount of work for the school systems, but you can feel more confident that your school will take your reports seriously now.
My granddaughters attend the Summit public schools--one in fifth grade, and one who has just started high school. Their family is neither rich nor poor. The girls attended the Brayton school, which is in a good neighborhood, where the homes seem similar to those in SO-M. Houses are more expensive in Summit than they are in SO+M, and more in demand. Taxes seem to be comparable. I'm not crazy about the Summit downtown area. I think that we have more and better restaurants here in SO, and there doesn't seem to be any supermarket in the downtown comparable to Eden.
My granddaughters have been generally happy and successful in school. The older girl experienced a bit of bullying from a couple of nasty types, due to her hearing deficit, but her parents and the school dealt with it, and she is doing very well in high school. Ceidefields is way off base in his or her assessment of who attends the public schools. They are good schools, but I don't think that they are better than our schools here in SO-M. It seems to me that Summit is a lot less diverse than SO-M. The so-called poor section seems to be inhabited by Latin Americans, with a lot of folks from Costa Rica.
My granddaughters have been generally happy and successful in school. The older girl experienced a bit of bullying from a couple of nasty types, due to her hearing deficit, but her parents and the school dealt with it, and she is doing very well in high school. Ceidefields is way off base in his or her assessment of who attends the public schools. They are good schools, but I don't think that they are better than our schools here in SO-M. It seems to me that Summit is a lot less diverse than SO-M. The so-called poor section seems to be inhabited by Latin Americans, with a lot of folks from Costa Rica.
BTW, welcome back to NJ.
My synagogue is in Summit so my daughter goes to religious school with a number of kids who are in the Summit public schools. In our conversations with their parents they all seem satisfied with the schools, be we are talking elementary school at this point in time.
I have been in the middle school and high school for high holiday services and both (especially the high school) are very nice facilities and look well maintained and orderly.
My synagogue is in Summit so my daughter goes to religious school with a number of kids who are in the Summit public schools. In our conversations with their parents they all seem satisfied with the schools, be we are talking elementary school at this point in time.
I have been in the middle school and high school for high holiday services and both (especially the high school) are very nice facilities and look well maintained and orderly.
johnlockedema said:
Chatham/Morris County taxes. Summit/Union County taxes. Both better than Millburn/Maplewood/Essex County taxes. Thinking about schools, with taxes/house prices/performance being the primary thoughts? Maybe Chatham.
I've heard good things about New Providence.
nan said:
New Jersey now has the most stringent anti-bullying policies on the books. No school system can ignore bullying and they must write up reports based on a full investigation of every alleged incident. It's a huge amount of work for the school systems, but you can feel more confident that your school will take your reports seriously now.
Of course I'm against bullying but the new policies are RIDICULOUS in some ways. It's over the top, labor intensive stuff. We cut off our nose to spite our face on this one...
Thanks everyone.
I have checked out the Summit and Madison school sites and their anti-bullying initiatives are very prominently promoted there.
I'm currently looking at these two towns. I'm looking for work now and expect I'll have a commute, so Summit can't be beat in that regard. But I've always likes Madison's charm and small town feel. But the house we found in Summit fits us so much better.
I'll keep you guys posted on where we land!
I have checked out the Summit and Madison school sites and their anti-bullying initiatives are very prominently promoted there.
I'm currently looking at these two towns. I'm looking for work now and expect I'll have a commute, so Summit can't be beat in that regard. But I've always likes Madison's charm and small town feel. But the house we found in Summit fits us so much better.
I'll keep you guys posted on where we land!
mammabear said:
nan said:
New Jersey now has the most stringent anti-bullying policies on the books. No school system can ignore bullying and they must write up reports based on a full investigation of every alleged incident. It's a huge amount of work for the school systems, but you can feel more confident that your school will take your reports seriously now.
Of course I'm against bullying but the new policies are RIDICULOUS in some ways. It's over the top, labor intensive stuff. We cut off our nose to spite our face on this one...
Last month we were sitting in Kindergarten orientation realizing that, by the criteria being described, we should be reporting one of our twins if he hits his brother at home! And yes, with twin 5 year old boys, that does sometimes happen...
On the other hand, we have seen nasty teasing and the like up close in middle school, and may have to make a decision this year about whether to say something that would start this intensive paperwork cycle! I suspect it will take a year or two to figure out how to make this law into a useful tool, rather than just a paperwork nightmare.
The anti bullying legislation was a major unfunded mandate on cash strapped schools and a major example of a political need to be seen doing something gone very wrong.
A good friend of ours moved to Summit for the schools but ending up taking their daughter out. She had some minor learning issues and was also the victim of bullying.
It's a little freaking FRIGHTENING ...all of these bullying incidents.
Something is going on that needs to be addressed VERY early in Summit.
Something is going on that needs to be addressed VERY early in Summit.
We love Summit. I think the downtown in Summit is way better than SO for sure and rivals the other towns you mentioned. I personally prefer downtown Summit to Chatham or Madison because it has a bit more of a city feel and is less "small town". Large and varied dining choices, stores could use some new blood. It doesn't seem as "active" to me as other towns though- never as busy but maybe I go at "off" times. The train to Summit can't be beat if you are planning to have a commute. I have only heard second-hand info about the schools and it has always been that it is an excellent school system where kids get a top notch education. No need for private school. Haha- where in Summit are you looking?
my friends' kids who have gone through the Summit school system are getting in as good colleges as a lot of the kids in the M-So schools.
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Our son would be attending the elementary school, but we're interested in feedback on the public school system through high school.
And, if there's a reliable (and objective) online resource for this kind of information, I'd love to explore those as well. I've been on greatschools.org and find it only nominally helpful.
Thanks in advance.