Pope Francis, Catholics, and Christians in the news & Bible verses

Another challenge facing Pope Francis:

A new open letter from conservative critics of Pope Francis has accused the pontiff of committing heresy and called on the world’s bishops to censure him and - if necessary - declare that he is no longer pope.

As the old saying goes, guess they think they're more Catholic than the Pope.


nohero said:
Another challenge facing Pope Francis:


A new open letter from conservative critics of Pope Francis has accused the pontiff of committing heresy and called on the world’s bishops to censure him and - if necessary - declare that he is no longer pope.
As the old saying goes, guess they think they're more Catholic than the Pope.

Alternatively, the conservative critics do not wholly believe in the doctrine of papal infallibility (or perhaps they are not Catholic).  See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility#Modern_objections


nohero are you supporter of the doctrine of papal infallibility?






proeasdf said:
Alternatively, the conservative critics do not wholly believe in the doctrine of papal infallibility (or perhaps they are not Catholic).  See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility#Modern_objections

 The article identifies the signatories of the letter.  They would not be among the people who object to the Papal infallibility dogma.

Here's their summary of their position for anyone interested.


@nohero - where is the list of signatories to the document that claims Pope Francis is a heretic? 


And, @proeasdf - papal infallibility is only in play when specifically invoked in matters of doctrine. It does not means that any pope is magically free from making mistakes. 



finnegan said:
@nohero - where is the list of signatories to the document that claims Pope Francis is a heretic? 


And, @proeasdf - papal infallibility is only in play when specifically invoked in matters of doctrine. It does not means that any pope is magically free from making mistakes. 

 Ex cathedra — “from the chair”


What does Jesus think of this? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/health/unconstitutional-trump-aca.html

I think that is a relevant question in this discussion thread, because many white evangelicals and conservative christians support this. I can't figure out how they reconcile that with the gospel.


finnegan said:
@nohero - where is the list of signatories to the document that claims Pope Francis is a heretic? 


Sorry about that, I thought more were listed in that article.

This is the list from the actual letter (which is online here):

Georges Buscemi, President of Campagne Québec-Vie, member of the John-Paul II Academy for
Human Life and Family
Robert Cassidy STL
Fr Thomas Crean OP
Matteo d’Amico, Professor of History and Philosophy, Senior High School of Ancona
Deacon Nick Donnelly MA
Maria Guarini STB, Pontificia Università Seraphicum, Rome; editor of the website Chiesa e
postconcilio
Prof. Robert Hickson PhD, Retired Professor of Literature and of Strategic-Cultural Studies
Fr John Hunwicke, former Senior Research Fellow, Pusey House, Oxford
Peter Kwasniewski PhD
John Lamont DPhil (Oxon.)
Brian M. McCall, Orpha and Maurice Merrill Professor in Law; Editor-in-Chief of Catholic Family
News
Fr Cor Mennen JCL, diocese of ‘s-Hertogenbosch (Netherlands), canon of the cathedral Chapter.
lecturer at de diocesan Seminary of ‘s-Hertogenbosch
Stéphane Mercier, STB, PhD, Former Lecturer at the Catholic University of Louvain
Fr Aidan Nichols OP

 


I wonder if Steve Bannon's efforts to unite European Catholic right-wing nationalists to undercut the Pope are becoming instrumental and more effective in organizing these types of attacks against him?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/13/steve-bannon-matteo-salvini-pope-francis-is-the-enemy


nohero said:


finnegan said:
@nohero - where is the list of signatories to the document that claims Pope Francis is a heretic? 
Sorry about that, I thought more were listed in that article.
This is the list from the actual letter (which is online here):

Georges Buscemi, President of Campagne Québec-Vie, member of the John-Paul II Academy for
Human Life and Family
Robert Cassidy STL
Fr Thomas Crean OP
Matteo d’Amico, Professor of History and Philosophy, Senior High School of Ancona
Deacon Nick Donnelly MA
Maria Guarini STB, Pontificia Università Seraphicum, Rome; editor of the website Chiesa e
postconcilio
Prof. Robert Hickson PhD, Retired Professor of Literature and of Strategic-Cultural Studies
Fr John Hunwicke, former Senior Research Fellow, Pusey House, Oxford
Peter Kwasniewski PhD
John Lamont DPhil (Oxon.)
Brian M. McCall, Orpha and Maurice Merrill Professor in Law; Editor-in-Chief of Catholic Family
News
Fr Cor Mennen JCL, diocese of ‘s-Hertogenbosch (Netherlands), canon of the cathedral Chapter.
lecturer at de diocesan Seminary of ‘s-Hertogenbosch
Stéphane Mercier, STB, PhD, Former Lecturer at the Catholic University of Louvain
Fr Aidan Nichols OP
 

 Thanks.  I don't have time to research all these "important scholars" but was especially surprised to see someone from a Pontifical University on the list of signers, so looked up Maria Guarini. 

And, I found this: 

San Bonaventura Seraphicum

Creato: 02 Maggio 2019
Hits: 18
In riferimento alla Lettera aperta ai Vescovi della Chiesa Cattolica (datata 30 aprile 2019), contenente accuse contro papa Francesco, la Pontificia Facoltà Teologica “San Bonaventura” Seraphicum di Roma, tiene a precisare che la sig.ra Maria GUARINI, firmataria del documento, NON HA ALCUN RAPPORTO CON LA MEDESIMA FACOLTÀ, se non quello di esserne stata studente.
La sig.ra Guarini, infatti, ha frequentato la Facoltà conseguendo il titolo di Baccalaureato (STB= Sacrae Theologiae Baccalaureus) nell’anno 1998, senza conseguire altri gradi accademici né avere incarico alcuno.
La Pontificia Facoltà Teologica “San Bonaventura” prende le distanze da tutti i contenuti della detta Lettera e diffida la Sig.ra Guarini da agire in nome di questo Ente accademico.



Which google translate rendered thus: 


With reference to the Open Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church (dated 30 April 2019), containing accusations against Pope Francis, the Pontifical Theological Faculty "San Bonaventura" Seraphicum of Rome, wishes to point out that Ms Maria GUARINI, signatory of the document, IT HAS NO RELATIONSHIP WITH THE SAME FACULTY, except to have been a student of it.
In fact, Mrs. Guarini attended the Faculty with the title of Baccalaureate (STB = Sacrae Theologiae Baccalaureus) in 1998, without obtaining other academic degrees or having any assignment.
The Pontifical Theological Faculty "San Bonaventura" distances itself from all the contents of the said Letter and warns Mrs. Guarini to act in the name of this academic body.


Nice! So, she's not on the faculty and didn't even manage to complete her undergraduate degree there and is being publicly chastised to cease the false representation of herself. But go right ahead, Mrs. Guarini, and tell everyone how the pope is a heretic.....sheesh. 



have to wonder about the legitimacy of the other signers


mtierney said:
have to wonder about the legitimacy of the other signers

 Completely agree!


Very good column by Michael Sean Winters of NCReporter on the "heresy accusation letter".

Two excerpts:

The LifeSite article by Maika Hickson described the signers as "prominent clergymen and scholars," although I think all the names but one, Dominican Fr. Aidan Nichols, are more accurately described as obscure. Later, she calls the scholars "well-respected" and, again, I think Fr. Nichols was respected. After this foray into ecclesial politics, perhaps not so much.

You do not have to guess at the motives of this crowd. It is evident as day. Or is it? Like previous critics of Francis, they believe in a golden age that never existed. They visualize a church that never existed, in which the whole work of the church amounts to repeating the catechism of the Council of Trent. They want a kind of comprehensive certainty that is not available to us humans in this life. And those who do not see things as they do should hit the highway. This attitude bespeaks a certain insecurity, and I feel sympathy for those for whom this pontificate is unsettling, just as I felt sympathy for those Catholics who missed the Tridentine rite and found the vernacular Mass unsettling. But history marches on, and the Spirit, like the wind, blows where it will.



mtierney said:
something POTUS got right?

 Didn't read the article but, if the President says its raining you can be sure that you won't need an umbrella.  Every word that passes through that man's pie hole is a lie. If you don't believe me, you can ask the doctor who delivered Trump's father in Germany.


The church talks about opening up, punishing clergy and shining light on abuse.

Yet, the reality is, coverups continue:

On 26 March, Lucetta Scaraffia sent a letter to Pope Francis. She was, at the time, the editor of the Vatican’s glossy women’s magazine Women Church World: a title that in its seven years had taken aim at misogyny in the church, exposed the shocking sexual abuse of nuns and the secret abortions priests had paid for to get rid of the evidence.

“We are throwing in the towel,” she told the pope. “Because we feel surrounded by an atmosphere of distrust and progressive delegitimisation.” The “we” was the 11-strong editorial team, all but two of whom quit on the same day, accusing the church elders of attempting to gag them.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/may/08/vatican-editor-sexual-abuse-lucetta-scaraffia-nuns-misogyny


mtierney said:
http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/the-puzzling-pontificate-of-pope-francis


Pinning down the Pope.

 Pretty awful and misleading commentary.  I hope readers here don't take it as a legitimate, Catholic point of view.


Monumental bill is signed into law today by Governor Murphy, giving sexual abuse victims significant rights to sue priests and the Church, well into their adult years:

https://www.nj.com/news/2019/05/sexual-assault-victims-in-nj-will-soon-be-able-to-sue-nonprofits-that-employed-their-rapists-under-law-murphy-just-signed.html?ath=9c21d4e1edb2a97eb087defdbf611aaf#cmpid=nsltr_stryheadline


nohero said:


mtierney said:
http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/the-puzzling-pontificate-of-pope-francis


Pinning down the Pope.
 Pretty awful and misleading commentary.  I hope readers here don't take it as a legitimate, Catholic point of view.

 National Catholic Register is the FOX News of Catholic  media... not exactly accurate. 



I will defer to your evaluation of NCR since I  only recently came across that source. My impression is different, but early days yet.


Sort of related: "Cardinal Peter Turkson, tapped by the pontiff to head the Vatican’s super-dicastery on integral human development, said Tuesday that every time he goes to the United States, the pope’s social agenda is misinterpreted as adopting either a socialist or communist approach to the economy."

Top Vatican official says Americans misunderstand pope’s social agenda


NYT: Tell Tell No One: Poland Is Pushed to Confront Abuse of Children by Priests

One wonders whether this presents a problem for those trying to make John Paul a saint given his refusal to come to terms with the atrocities that were being committed right under his nose.


Klinker said:
NYT: Tell Tell No One: Poland Is Pushed to Confront Abuse of Children by Priests
One wonders whether this presents a problem for those trying to make John Paul a saint ...

 That train's already left the station.


Patron Saint of Child Molesters.  I guess the position was open.....


Pope Francis has criticized traditionalist Catholics who seek to "safeguard the ashes" of the past, saying the global church's centuries of tradition are not akin to a container for preserved objects but instead like roots to be drawn on for future growth.

In a press conference aboard the papal flight back to Rome after his three-day visit to Romania, he singled out Catholic "fundamentalists," who he said have a nostalgia for "returning to the ashes."

"Tradition is the guarantee of the future and not the container of the ashes," said Francis.

"Tradition is like roots [of a tree], which give us nutrition to grow," he explained. "You will not become like the roots. You will flower, grow, give fruit. And the seeds become roots for other people."

"The tradition of the church is always in movement," he said. "The tradition does not safeguard the ashes."

Francis criticizes traditionalist Catholics who 'safeguard the ashes' of the past


I posted this in what’s happening thread because the topic is a political weapon.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/02/opinion/abortion-laws-men.html

But, this link exposes an Achilles heel issue: Men. Long left out of the debate.


In order to add a comment – you must Join this community – Click here to do so.