Sure, why not? Let's discuss what makes something funny

I've even written myself that there's not much that's more tedious than people trying to have a serious discussion about what makes a particular attempt at humor funny or not funny.  And when I've labeled some attempt at a "joke" as "not funny," it seems to really get some people's knickers in a twist.  If you label something "not convincing" or "not logical" it doesn't seem to get under people's skin the way saying something is "not funny" does.  Admittedly, a lot of humor is subjective, and culturally specific.  But generally most of us have at least a gut understanding of why John Oliver and Stephen Colbert are funny, but generally speaking Dennis Miller and Jesse Watters are not.

But I was thinking of all this when I read this article on why British people generally don't like Donald Trump:

Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing – not once, ever.I don’t say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility – for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman.

But with Trump, it’s a fact. He doesn’t even seem to understand what a joke is – his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.

Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers.

And scarily, he doesn’t just talk in crude, witless insults – he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness.

There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It’s all surface.

Some Americans might see this as refreshingly upfront.Well, we don’t. We see it as having no inner world, no soul.
https://thehobbledehoy.com/2019/03/08/british-writer-pens-the-best-description-of-trump-ive-read/?fbclid=IwAR3BnnWW_XiK3eurcj2v3RbUzTnHPyGY_AhvNgC8EHtuVQXqtOEqu1_VOjM

So the question is -- can humor be objectively evaluated?  I say yes, just as the author above has done with Trump.  He laid out all the objective reasons why Trump's alleged jokes aren't funny.


Is this the place to discuss the Colorado Wall? Or T’s dismissal of his gaffe as ‘just kidding’?? 

I’m not sure, as an observer, which is more disturbing: the randomness of Colorado slipping out, or the awful hollowness of that tiresome and unconvincing excuse. (What on earth could have been rattling around in his head to lead to ‘Colorado‘ being the word that tumbled out??)


Is the following BHO 2008 statement from the campaign trail funny:

“… it is just wonderful to be back in Oregon, and over the last 15 months we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in fifty …. seven ["57"] states? I think one left to go. One left to go. Alaska and Hawaii, I was not allowed to go to even though I really wanted to visit but my staff would not justify it.”

See:  https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/57-states/

PS How about when BHO misspelled/botched  the word "respect" when honoring Aretha Franklin.  BHO quote:  "R-S-P-E-C-T." BHO flubbed the spelling of Aretha Franklin's famous song "Respect" while paying tribute to the iconic singer, New York, NY (March 6, 2014).  Was that incident funny?

If not, why?

See:  https://time.com/15556/barack-obama-aretha-franklin-respect/  and https://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-botches-spelling-of-respect-while-lauding-aretha-franklin/


It was funny for about 5 minutes, then it got tired really flipping quickly.


RealityForAll said:

Is the following BHO 2008 statement from the campaign trail funny:

“… it is just wonderful to be back in Oregon, and over the last 15 months we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in fifty …. seven ["57"] states? I think one left to go. One left to go. Alaska and Hawaii, I was not allowed to go to even though I really wanted to visit but my staff would not justify it.”

See:  https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/57-states/

 How was that explained? (Serious question) ETA I read the Snopes link, complete with typos.
i can see the obvious errors there, but BHO didn’t proclaim howlers every time he opened his mouth, or tweeted. Or, indeed, tried to correct himself. 


How about the following April 29, 2016 Hillary comment (apparently focused on DJT):  “I HAVE A LOT OF EXPERIENCE DEALING WITH MEN WHO SOMETIMES GET OFF THE RESERVATION IN THE WAY THEY BEHAVE AND HOW THEY SPEAK,” SAID CLINTON.

See:  https://nativenewsonline.net/currents/hillarys-off-reservation-causes-ire-among-american-indians/ and https://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-dem-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/04/hillary-clinton-men-reservation-222645

My take: clearly a faux pas but funny.  IMHO it helped to humanize Hillary.


I don’t see what’s wrong with her comment. It’s clearly a cultural-context thing. (I don’t even find it funny; never fully understood it)

The Colorado statement is completely wrong, the tweet about joking is way off-mark. And I feel that you’re piling you’re piling historical one-liners at me when T’s zingers are in a context of their own. 


joanne said:

RealityForAll said:

Is the following BHO 2008 statement from the campaign trail funny:

“… it is just wonderful to be back in Oregon, and over the last 15 months we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in fifty …. seven ["57"] states? I think one left to go. One left to go. Alaska and Hawaii, I was not allowed to go to even though I really wanted to visit but my staff would not justify it.”

See:  https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/57-states/

 How was that explained? (Serious question)
i can see the obvious errors there, but BHO didn’t proclaim howlers every time he opened his mouth, or tweeted. Or, indeed, tried to correct himself. 

 I can say with certainty the way the press responded to BHO's gaffe regarding the 57 states is NOT the way the press would react to a gaffe by DJT or Mitt Romney.  I think that the press would try to describe BHO gaffe as a slip of the tongue (in essence, an anomaly).  And, I concede that DJT is an intentionally, relentless liar.  However. I do not believe that Mitt Romey is a relentless liar (like DJT).  However the MSM treated Mitt's gaffes more like DJT's gaffes than BHO gaffes.


@ml1 This is perfect. I'm in total agreement. Actually I"m perplexed when I hear his crowd laughing. I'd like this whole thing printed on a T shirt.  It's just one of the reasons I find him so obnoxious. 

"Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing – not once, ever.I don’t say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility – for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman.

But with Trump, it’s a fact. He doesn’t even seem to understand what a joke is – his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.

Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers.

And scarily, he doesn’t just talk in crude, witless insults – he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness.

There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It’s all surface.

Some Americans might see this as refreshingly upfront.Well, we don’t. We see it as having no inner world, no soul."


"A sense of humor keen enough to show a man his own absurdities will keep him from the commission of all sins, or nearly all, save those worth committing." Samuel Butler

and there are only a few things more absurd than a politician thinking they're funny.


joanne said:

I don’t see what’s wrong with her comment. It’s clearly a cultural-context thing. (I don’t even find it funny; never fully understood it)

The Colorado statement is completely wrong, the tweet about joking is way off-mark. And I feel that you’re piling you’re piling historical one-liners at me when T’s zingers are in a context of their own. 

 You may want to read the Native American take on HRC's off the reservation comment.  See:  https://nativenewsonline.net/currents/hillarys-off-reservation-causes-ire-among-american-indians/


RealityForAll said:

 You may want to read the Native American take on HRC's off the reservation comment.  See:  https://nativenewsonline.net/currents/hillarys-off-reservation-causes-ire-among-american-indians/

 Here’s Trump denouncing her for it a couple of years before letting the world know he‘s being lynched.

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/hillary-clinton-reservation-trump-222692


ridski said:

 Here’s Trump denouncing her for it a couple of years before letting the world know he‘s being lynched.

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/hillary-clinton-reservation-trump-222692

 Disclaimer, I’ve used the “off the reservation” phrase on mol myself once, and yeah, it was pretty recently, my only excuse is that I didn’t grow up here and had no context for its history, and as soon as I learned that I apologized and will endeavor not to use it again. I searched for both posts, but I came up ith nothing, which was weird, so maybe someone else will be luckier if they care.


RealityForAll said:

 You may want to read the Native American take on HRC's off the reservation comment.  See:  https://nativenewsonline.net/currents/hillarys-off-reservation-causes-ire-among-american-indians/

 your comments in this discussion suggest that you have never been within 10 miles of funny and have no idea what would be humorous to another person. 


ml1 said:

  And when I've labeled some attempt at a "joke" as "not funny," it seems to really get some people's knickers in a twist.  

Wait as I recall, the previous discussion started when someone said something was funny and you said “that’s not funny” which is the quintessential schoolmarm scold. And whose knickers were in a twist? cool cheese


Smedley said:

Wait as I recall, the previous discussion started when someone said something was funny and you said “that’s not funny” which is the quintessential schoolmarm scold. And whose knickers were in a twist?
cool cheese

 it was an objective observation. Not funny  


And I’ll add — does the umpire get emotional about calling you out?  Nope. The ball beat you to the base. You're out.  

The tweet is devoid of whimsy, irony, absurdity, wit -- not funny. 


I’ve had the most annoying morning in terms of wifi access, and have lost an earlier reply to RFA, thanking for the contextual link. 
sigh. 
Thank you everyone else for your input. 
in relation to my comments on mis-speaking, as a result of my acquired brain injury I have an intermittent form of aphasia through which I repeat back whatever words someone has just used with me. That wipes out whatever thought I was holding onto in my mind. Or, what I’m focusing on can replace what I should be using in normal speech as a naturally flowing reply. Normally I’m high functioning enough that people don’t notice my disability. But I only hold 3-5 things in my working memory (most people hold 9-15), and when it’s really busy my processing really drops. 
so I’m seriously wondering, what’s going on in Colorado that T’s trying to contain it there? Because his body language doesn’t show humour, neither does his face. Quite the opposite.


ml1 said:

Smedley said:

Wait as I recall, the previous discussion started when someone said something was funny and you said “that’s not funny” which is the quintessential schoolmarm scold. And whose knickers were in a twist?
cool cheese

 it was an objective observation. Not funny  

 But you just said earlier on this thread “a lot of humor is subjective.” 

Which invalidates your ump analogy.



paulsurovell
said:

Corporate media, as Chomsky teaches, manipulates public opinion to serve its agendas. Dore has chosen to challenge corporate media. You've chosen to defend corporate media.

Have to admit I laughed my *** off at this. I guess Paul’s right on his Facebook page (not supporting corporate media) “very funny if you take enough time to think about what I’ve said.”


Smedley said:

 But you just said earlier on this thread “a lot of humor is subjective.” 

Which invalidates your ump analogy.

 didn't say ALL humor


joanne said:

I’ve had the most annoying morning in terms of wifi access, and have lost an earlier reply to RFA, thanking for the contextual link. 
sigh. 
Thank you everyone else for your input. 
in relation to my comments on mis-speaking, as a result of my acquired brain injury I have an intermittent form of aphasia through which I repeat back whatever words someone has just used with me. That wipes out whatever thought I was holding onto in my mind. Or, what I’m focusing on can replace what I should be using in normal speech as a naturally flowing reply. Normally I’m high functioning enough that people don’t notice my disability. But I only hold 3-5 things in my working memory (most people hold 9-15), and when it’s really busy my processing really drops. 
so I’m seriously wondering, what’s going on in Colorado that T’s trying to contain it there? Because his body language doesn’t show humour, neither does his face. Quite the opposite.

 I think of Trump's brain as that "junk drawer" that most people have somewhere in their house. Things that you don't know what to do with or where to put, get tossed in. Then you open it to look for something and become distracted by the odd objects that have set up camp  there.

Someone may have mentioned before the rally that the Republican Senator Cory Gardner could lose his Colorado Senate seat to the Democratic candidate Hickenlooper. Then in the middle of his rambling riff on the wall and the states that will be protected out spilled Colorado.

Of course I'm just speculating but speculation has a home here on MOL. So look at it, consider it, or just toss it back in the junk drawer. If you are more organized file it under Plausible Explanation.


ridski said:


paulsurovell
said:

Corporate media, as Chomsky teaches, manipulates public opinion to serve its agendas. Dore has chosen to challenge corporate media. You've chosen to defend corporate media.

Have to admit I laughed my *** off at this. I guess Paul’s right on his Facebook page (not supporting corporate media) “very funny if you take enough time to think about what I’ve said.”

oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh


RealityForAll said:

Is the following BHO 2008 statement from the campaign trail funny:

“… it is just wonderful to be back in Oregon, and over the last 15 months we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in fifty …. seven ["57"] states? I think one left to go. One left to go. Alaska and Hawaii, I was not allowed to go to even though I really wanted to visit but my staff would not justify it.”

See:  https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/57-states/

So it was a slip of the tongue, and instead of saying "50" and correcting to "47" (with "one left to go" and not going to AK or HI), he was heard to say "57".  As others said, funny for 5 minutes.

If Trump was in the same situation:

  • He'd repeat the "57" and berate the "fake news media" for criticizing him
  • He'd display a map, with extra lines drawn with a sharpie to divide some larger states so the total was 57.
  • Threaten the jobs of anyone at the US Geological Survey who corrected his statement.

And he'd bump it up to 60.


I can't even believe RFA brought up the 57 states thing.



Oh, Morganna, I was hoping it wasn’t the junk drawer scenario cheese


drummerboy said:

I can't even believe RFA brought up the 57 states thing.

And he didn't even end that post with, "The Aristocrats!"


drummerboy said:

I can't even believe RFA brought up the 57 states thing.

 Just proves the point that it IS possible to objectively declare that something is NOT funny.


I thought that BHO misspelling the word respect was pretty funny.  

Video (1:08 - short) of Obama misspelling the word "RESPECT" when introducing Aretha Franklin.  See:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RByaUJZvH_M

PS I also thought that Dan Quayle's misspelling of the word "potato" was funny.  See YT video (short - 0:43):  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKVbt2ugTJE


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