Would you still vacation in Florida? Why or why not?

Florida has never been my cup of tea, but, in the past, I have made trips to the land of endless strip malls to visit family.  Those family members are gone now and, in light of the insanity that is the DeSantis regime, I can't think of anything that would entice me to spend a penny in the Don't Say Gay state.

Florida tourism, however, does not seem to have faced the same sort of backlash that industries in other states that have enacted similar appalling legislation have faced and that seems to means that liberals are still pumping money into the Florida economy.  Is anyone here planning to continue to do business south of Georgia and, if you are, how do you justify spending your cash there?


I posted the above picture without looking too closely at it.  DeSantos apparently is now signing bills with sharpies.  I wonder where he got that idea from.  What a pathetic tool!


after yesterday's news, a trip to Disney World, staying in one of their properties would seem like one way to stick it to DeSantis.


ml1 said:

after yesterday's news, a trip to Disney World, staying in one of their properties would seem like one way to stick it to DeSantis.

I suppose but you would still be pumping sales tax dollars etc into the Florida (De Santis) economy and there is a perfectly good Disneyland in a state that doesn't discriminate against people based on their sexuality or gender identity (not to mention the countless other appalling laws that Florida has enacted in recent years). 

A portion of any money spent in Florida will go to fund the infrastructure of hate.

LOL


We were thinking about visiting Disneyland in Anaheim already this summer to check out the new Star Wars park.


I don’t hold every business or resident responsible for the actions of their government, so if there was a reason to visit Florida, I’d go. Just as anti-diversity college admissions policies don’t keep me out of Cali. (Not to mention the environmental damage wrought by unquenchable almond groves.)


DaveSchmidt said:

 Just as anti-diversity college admissions policies don’t keep me out of Cali.

I am curious about this statement.  According to the LA Times, the University of California admitted it's most diverse class in history for this academic year.  Indeed, according to US News and World Report, UCSC (my alma mater) and UCLA are amongst the top ten most diverse public university campuses in the country.  Could you elaborate?

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-07-19/uc-admissions-new-diversity-record-but-harder-to-get-in

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/campus-ethnic-diversity

ETA:  The photo (below) was for a Slug Spirit Day and not staged to illustrated diversity although it is a pretty diverse place.  That wasn't always the case at UCSC and the university has worked a lot to improve things.


GoSlugs said:

We were thinking about visiting Disneyland in Anaheim already this summer to check out the new Star Wars park.

in the summer the chances of more comfortable weather in Anaheim versus Orlando approach 100%. 


GoSlugs said:

I am curious about this statement. According to the LA Times, the University of California admitted it's most diverse class in history for this academic year. Indeed, according to US News and World Report, UCSC (my alma mater) and UCLA are amongst the top ten most diverse public university campuses in the country. Could you elaborate?

Prop 209.

https://edsource.org/2020/dropping-affirmative-action-had-huge-impact-on-californias-public-universities/642437

If narrowing my comment down to "anti-Black college admissions policies" makes the point more clearly, I can do that, too.


DaveSchmidt said:

Prop 209.

https://edsource.org/2020/dropping-affirmative-action-had-huge-impact-on-californias-public-universities/642437

If narrowing my comment down to "anti-Black college admissions policies" makes the point more clearly, I can do that, too.

Well, in net terms, if there is more diversity in state schools than there was 26 years ago (1996) in the dark days of the Wilson regime when Republicans controlled state government, than the Democrats who have controlled the state since 2007 must have done a pretty good job of correcting the problem. African Americans make up 5% of the population of California and 5% of the incoming freshman class at the University of California this year was African American.  

Boycotting a state because of a policy that was enacted before most students in the system today were born, not to mention a policy that has been corrected through other means, would be silly. Boycotting a state because its current government its conducting a homophobic crusade, well, that seems like a different matter.


I wouldn't mind seeing DeSantis take a hit for his recent decisions, as I imagine quite a few of us fear that he will take a run at the Presidential election. So if tourism slowed enough and if property taxes were impacted, is it too much to hope his popularity would suffer?


GoSlugs said:

Well, in net terms, if there is more diversity in state schools than there was 26 years ago (1996) in the dark days of the Wilson regime when Republicans controlled state government, than the Democrats who have controlled the state since 2007 must have done a pretty good job of correcting the problem. African Americans make up 5% of the population of California and 5% of the incoming freshman class at the University of California this year was African American.

African-Americans made up 12% of the California population in the 2020 census. I don't know where you got 5%.

I didn't check the past numbers, but my guess is that the state is more diverse than it has ever been, so the fact that enrollment across the entire public college system is more diverse than ever isn't surprising. The usual test of diversity is competitive admissions. Black freshman enrollment at Berkeley was cut in half after Prop 209. So was Latino freshman enrollment. UC has clawed some of those percentages back since then, but the state's policy stands, and was even reaffirmed in the 2020 election.

Boycotting a state because of a policy that was enacted before most students in the system today were born, not to mention a policy that has been corrected through other means, would be silly. Boycotting a state because its current government its conducting a homophobic crusade, well, that seems like a different matter.

I was only kidding. California is just fine. There's nothing about it at all that would be objectionable enough to boycott. And even if there were, the first sentence of my original comment was the crux of my response to the question you asked, offered in the belief you were seeking feedback and not an argument.


DaveSchmidt said:

GoSlugs said:

Well, in net terms, if there is more diversity in state schools than there was 26 years ago (1996) in the dark days of the Wilson regime when Republicans controlled state government, than the Democrats who have controlled the state since 2007 must have done a pretty good job of correcting the problem. African Americans make up 5% of the population of California and 5% of the incoming freshman class at the University of California this year was African American.

African-Americans made up 12% of the California population in the 2020 census. I don't know where you got 5%.

I didn't check the past numbers, but my guess is that the state is more diverse than it has ever been, so the fact that enrollment across the entire public college system is more diverse than ever isn't surprising. The usual test of diversity is competitive admissions. Black freshman enrollment at Berkeley was cut in half after Prop 209. So was Latino freshman enrollment. UC has clawed some of those percentages back since then, but the state's policy stands, and was even reaffirmed in the 2020 

I'll admit that I initially got my numbers on California demographics from Wikipedia but searches of other sources such as the following confirm my numbers.  

https://www.ppic.org/publication/californias-population/

The highest percentage I can find cited is 7% and it is an outlier.  Where did you get the 12% figure?



DaveSchmidt said:

 the first sentence of my original comment was the crux of my response to the question you asked, offered in the belief you were seeking feedback and not an argument.

I was looking for a discussion, more than anything else. I thought that was the goal here, discussion. If I came off as combative it is because, as a Californian, I am protective of the best place on Earth. cheese

DaveSchmidt said:

I don’t hold every business or resident responsible for the actions of their government, so if there was a reason to visit Florida, I’d go. 

I don't hold every Russian responsible for the war in Ukraine but I support sanctions.  I think that Florida deserves a similar, if perhaps milder, remedy.


GoSlugs said:

I'll admit that I initially got my numbers on California demographics from Wikipedia but searches of other sources such as the following confirm my numbers.  

https://www.ppic.org/publication/californias-population/

The highest percentage I can find cited is 7% and it is an outlier.  Where did you get the 12% figure?

I'm sorry, you're correct. I misread the Census Bureau page. The latest figure is 6.5 percent.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/CA


GoSlugs said:

DaveSchmidt said:

 the first sentence of my original comment was the crux of my response to the question you asked, offered in the belief you were seeking feedback and not an argument.

I was looking for a discussion, more than anything else. I thought that was the goal here, discussion. If I came off as combative it is because, as a Californian, I am protective of the best place on Earth.
cheese

DaveSchmidt said:

I don’t hold every business or resident responsible for the actions of their government, so if there was a reason to visit Florida, I’d go. 

I don't hold every Russian responsible for the war in Ukraine but I support sanctions.  I think that Florida deserves a similar, if perhaps milder, remedy.

It's an individual opinion guiding individual behavior. Share and listen? I'm in. Challenge and debate? It's your thread. 


DaveSchmidt said:

It's an individual opinion guiding individual behavior. Share and listen? I'm in. Challenge and debate? It's your thread. 

I guess I hadn't meant to imply such a rigid structure.  That being the case though, thanks for your participation and don't let a gator (or Florida Man) eat you in your travels.


The special district may have been a good idea for Disney when they needed to override local government to get their park easily and quickly built.

But now I read that ending the special tax district will cost local governments billions, the billion dollar bond, road maintenance, public security, etc.

In other words, a large expense burden will be shifted from Disney to government. One tax collector said the effect will be to raise the average tax of the local homeowner tax by $2800.

Disney may now be laughing at DeSantis and his Republican legislative geniuses.


I have never had any desire to visit Florida. I accidentally visited it a few years ago when a cruise I was on stopped at Kennedy Space Center.


drummerboy said:

I have never had any desire to visit Florida. I accidentally visited it a few years ago when a cruise I was on stopped at Kennedy Space Center.

OK,  the Space Center is something that I would like to see at some point in my life.  I guess I can hope that the nuts in Florida get the boot at some point in the future. 


Foglesong, a retired political science professor at Rollins College in Winter Park, Fla., said Disneyland also “does just fine” without the same self-governing structure in California.

He questioned how committed Disney might be to keeping the original Reedy Creek structure in Central Florida. He said someone will have to pay for infrastructure and debt if the district is abolished. He wondered: What if that someone ends up being the state of Florida?

“Maybe those promoting the legislation are going to end up paying the price, not just financially but maybe with voters,” he said. “This could end up looking like a bailout of Disney.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2022/04/22/florida-disney-reedy-creek-desantis/



DeSantis adds to my avoidance of visiting Florida. I don't really like sitting around getting fried in the  burning sun, find a lot of the scenery dull, and am not excited much by the culture or history. I haven't much interest in being far away from my children, and the idea of spending retirement days on the sand or on a golf course seems deadening. The anti-intellectualism, intolerance and quasi- fascist bullying of a wanna be strongman adds a revolting layer all of its own, which I wouldn't want to support with my vacationing dollars. 


"Conservatives" have always been pro-business with most supporting Government affirmatively aiding business. Hamilton favored it and a Republican in, I believe, the Hoover administration said "The business of Government is Business". The Libertarians favor a complete hands-off approach, I think I recall Ayn Rand saying there should be a separation of Government and Business like the separation of Church and State,

Liberals believe in Government regulation of business to protect workers and consumers.

Socialists believe there should be no private business or complete government control.

What does one call a Politician who wants to use Government to enforce cultural conservatism on business and interfere with business to prevent it from being culturally progressive? I think such person fits the definition of Fascist.


No-one has mentioned the sensible news development (or, not that I’ve seen):

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/may/11/florida-election-congressional-map-ron-desantis-judge

How reassuring to know you can’t be so easily scrubbed off into political invisibility. Was there much blowback about this in your own domestic news? US news has been a bit overshadowed here the past 24 hours.


If the question is still, "Would I still vacation in Florida?"  The answer is yes.    We always go to the Gulf side which is supposed to be more laid back.   The scenery is great and the palm trees immediately tell me that I am not in NJ.  One time when we got jet skis, we ran across a pod of dolphins and simply hung with them for about ten minutes as they circled us and were checking us out.  One time we went to the Swanni River and rented a pontoon boat and went upriver.  We did the airboats in the everglades.  The fishing was good.  When the kids were little, we went to Disney and it was fun.   We did not go thru the theme parks like on a commando mission, but simply took it slower and enjoyed all the small artsy items that fill the parks in addition to the rides. The water parks were a lot of fun.   The afternoon thunderstorms can be very strong.  But I guess what I found most interesting are the birds, fish, manatees, plants other nature stuff.  Florida is where I saw at the same time a rainbow on one side over the Gulf and a second one on the land side. The gators were scary.  So, while I am on vacation, I forget about politics.  


Is there a point at which you would stop vacationing there?  A bridge too far?  


I very much disagree with the Florida Governor and his pandering on right-wing social politics and what I see as his life-costing head-in-the-sand failure in efforts to control the covid pandemic.  But, as much as I can,  I am not going to let some ignorant politicians control my life. If Trump invited me to visit him to golf at Mara Lago, I would NOT go as I think he is a con-man boorish crook and the worst President in our lifetime.   Boycotting seldom works in changing politics.  What works is having strong sensible candidates, activism on the part of many caring people, and getting out the vote.   


I have a house in Sarasota. When I’m down there I enjoy it. It’s very relaxing, it takes getting used to the right wing bumper stickers. I don’t talk politics with the neighbors, they assume I’m liberal because of my New Jersey license plates. There’s one in particular diagonally across the street with a huge confederate flag in his backyard, calls me “jersey mike” , heard he passed away a few months ago from sclerosis of the liver. He and his friends would drink every day. Hopefully it will be a little more peaceful when I go down this summer. 


I have been to Sarasota many times and we have relatives there.   The beaches are great.   The downtown buildings sparkle in the sun.  The kids got a bunch of sand dollars when we went in the water at one of the inlets. Mote Marine does much environmental education.  

But the area is heavily Republican.  Long Boat Key is home to very rich conservative folks.  You may recall that President GW Bush was in Sarasota when the World Trade Center was attacked.  He had been in Sarasota the night before at a Republican fundraiser.   One very bad part of the current Repub politics is that they do not take much care of the environment and strongly favor polluting businesses.  Last year, a potassium settling pond that was poorly constructed, broke and flooded Tampa Bay.  This added to the red tide problems.  


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