GOP Gaslighting: If January 6 Was An Insurrection Then Someone Would Be Convicted ... Never Mind

The latest lie is from Tucker Carlson - 

January 6 was a pretense, to justify putting "true patriots" in camps, etc.


Bumping this, because one year ago this thread had our impressions of what was going on during the MAGA sacking of the Capitol.

Also: a 1/6/21 chronology on the Twitter today - 


I thought the crowd was actually antifa followers?  

Never mind - I just did a fact check after typing that and it was the first bullet point:

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/01/05/us/jan-6-fact-check


yes, still waiting for insurrection convictions to prove it was an insurrection though. 


lord_pabulum said:

yes, still waiting for insurrection convictions to prove it was an insurrection though. 

I would say that the overall action was an insurrection.  The pawns that showed up at the rally would never get to this level of accountability.  So to expect insurrection charges at this moment in time is pretty dumb.  


lord_pabulum said:

yes, still waiting for insurrection convictions to prove it was an insurrection though. 

you mean your own eyes and ears don't give you proof?

sad...


lord_pabulum said:

yes, still waiting for insurrection convictions to prove it was an insurrection though.

You mean like New York City’s 479 murders last year aren’t really murders until they result in a murder verdict or plea. Well played, if the world is to be a place where common language and understanding must always yield to the standards of legal terminology.


lord_pabulum said:

yes, still waiting for insurrection convictions to prove it was an insurrection though. 

thanks for providing an example of what it takes from citizens for countries to devolve into fascism. 


lord_pabulum said:

yes, still waiting for insurrection convictions to prove it was an insurrection though. 


DaveSchmidt said:

lord_pabulum said:

yes, still waiting for insurrection convictions to prove it was an insurrection though.

You mean like New York City’s 479 murders last year aren’t really murders until they result in a murder verdict or plea. Well played, if the world is to be a place where common language and understanding must always yield to the standards of legal terminology.

Using Pablum's reasoning can be used to highlight how much safer the city is.

The NYPD murder clearance rate is about 60%. But, not all of the 60% will be convicted. So, its likely near 50% are found guilty through trial or plea.

Therefore, we "adjust" the statistical murder rate to be 240 instead of 480. Which can also be done for all crime categories.


I am still waiting for someone to be convicted of terrorism to show that airplanes flying into the Twin Towers on 9/11/2001 was terrorism.


lord_pabulum said:

yes, still waiting for insurrection convictions to prove it was an insurrection though. 

Is "seditious conspiracy" a synonym for "insurrection"?

Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes charged with seditious conspiracy in Jan. 6 Capitol riot (WaPo)

This is an indictment, not a conviction, but I'm interpreting your statement as meaning you haven't seen any charges related to "insurrection," not a complaint on the length of time it takes to go from investigation through arrest, charging, and trial.


PVW said:

Is "seditious conspiracy" a synonym for "insurrection"?

Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes charged with seditious conspiracy in Jan. 6 Capitol riot (WaPo)

This is an indictment, not a conviction, but I'm interpreting your statement as meaning you haven't seen any charges related to "insurrection," not a complaint on the length of time it takes to go from investigation through arrest, charging, and trial.

Sounds close enough.

"The seditious conspiracy indictment alleges that, following the Nov. 3, 2020, presidential election, Rhodes conspired with his co-defendants and others to oppose by force the execution of the laws governing the transfer of presidential power by Jan. 20, 2021. ... According to the seditious conspiracy indictment, the defendants conspired through a variety of manners and means, including: organizing into teams that were prepared and willing to use force and to transport firearms and ammunition into Washington, D.C.; recruiting members and affiliates to participate in the conspiracy; organizing trainings to teach and learn paramilitary combat tactics; bringing and contributing paramilitary gear, weapons and supplies – including knives, batons, camouflaged combat uniforms, tactical vests with plates, helmets, eye protection and radio equipment – to the Capitol grounds; breaching and attempting to take control of the Capitol grounds and building on Jan. 6, 2021, in an effort to prevent, hinder and delay the certification of the electoral college vote"

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/leader-oath-keepers-and-10-other-individuals-indicted-federal-court-seditious-conspiracy-and


Watching Ari Melber discussing the sedition charge. 


According to the Republican National Committee, the people we all saw on January 6, as described in the early pages of this thread, were merely "ordinary citizens engaged in legitimate political discourse".

RESOLUTION TO FORMALLY CENSURE LIZ CHENEY AND ADAM KINZINGER AND TO NO LONGER SUPPORT THEM AS MEMBERS OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY


In case it wasn't already obvious, the RNC does not believe in democracy.  And they have broad-based support for this view.  Quite chilling.  


One cannot be a Bolshevik if one does not support Lenin.



The resolution says the Democratic Party has engaged in a systemic effort to replace liberty with socialism, end border security and promote inflation.

That is propaganda and those who believe it literally are literally insane. 


STANV said:

The resolution says the Democratic Party has engaged in a systemic effort to replace liberty with socialism, end border security and promote inflation.

That is propaganda and those who believe it literally are literally insane. 

one of the reasons I am thankful for MT on this board. I get plenty of insight into the mechanics of the propaganda machine. 


Woke up this morning and read the news - could  not  believe  it.  You can’t expunge this flip from history - it’s vital that it’s taught (and learnt) as part of civics courses - but the truth of last year must be covered as well. 

I’m still spluttering into my coffee mug.  tongue rolleye


Republicans demanded that they have to count every vote, they lost again and again after every recount.

They then claimed Mike Pence could have thrown out the results…I wonder if they think Kamala Harris has the same authority…


While we've been focused on Ukraine, a Federal court has ruled on the attempt of one of Trump's advisors to keep secret his emails and "strategy" advice. In ordering disclosure in Eastman v. January 6 Committee, the court noted:

Dr. Eastman and President Trump launched a campaign to overturn a democratic election, an action unprecedented in American history. Their campaign was not confined to the ivory tower—it was a coup in search of a legal theory. The plan spurred violent attacks on the seat of our nation’s government, led to the deaths of several law enforcement officers, and deepened public distrust in our political process.

… If Dr. Eastman and President Trump’s plan had worked, it would have permanently ended the peaceful transition of power, undermining American democracy and the Constitution. If the country does not commit to investigating and pursuing accountability for those responsible, the Court fears January 6 will repeat itself.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cacd.841840/gov.uscourts.cacd.841840.260.0.pdf


Judge also said: "Based on the evidence, the Court finds that it is more likely than not that President
Trump and Dr. Eastman dishonestly conspired to obstruct the Joint Session of Congress on
January 6, 2021."

Should make it interesting now that a judge has made this finding.


nohero said:

PVW said:

Is "seditious conspiracy" a synonym for "insurrection"?

Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes charged with seditious conspiracy in Jan. 6 Capitol riot (WaPo)

This is an indictment, not a conviction, but I'm interpreting your statement as meaning you haven't seen any charges related to "insurrection," not a complaint on the length of time it takes to go from investigation through arrest, charging, and trial.

Sounds close enough.

"The seditious conspiracy indictment alleges that, following the Nov. 3, 2020, presidential election, Rhodes conspired with his co-defendants and others to oppose by force the execution of the laws governing the transfer of presidential power by Jan. 20, 2021. ... According to the seditious conspiracy indictment, the defendants conspired through a variety of manners and means, including: organizing into teams that were prepared and willing to use force and to transport firearms and ammunition into Washington, D.C.; recruiting members and affiliates to participate in the conspiracy; organizing trainings to teach and learn paramilitary combat tactics; bringing and contributing paramilitary gear, weapons and supplies – including knives, batons, camouflaged combat uniforms, tactical vests with plates, helmets, eye protection and radio equipment – to the Capitol grounds; breaching and attempting to take control of the Capitol grounds and building on Jan. 6, 2021, in an effort to prevent, hinder and delay the certification of the electoral college vote"

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/leader-oath-keepers-and-10-other-individuals-indicted-federal-court-seditious-conspiracy-and

Oath Keepers Leader Convicted of Sedition in Landmark Jan. 6 Case (NYT)



PVW said:

Oath Keepers Leader Convicted of Sedition in Landmark Jan. 6 Case (NYT)

I had forgotten about this thread, and this post -

lord_pabulum said:

yes, still waiting for insurrection convictions to prove it was an insurrection though.


DOJ hasn't forgotten.


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