The mass shooting today.
I’ve seen some of the international comparative stats, and graphs, and every time there’s another incident we’re reminded of this year’s annual gun death toll.
This graphic database presentation is truly eye-opening, merely contrasting USA deaths v injured:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2021/may/27/us-mass-shootings-database
So I’m not sure if you’ve heard that last week in Queensland we had a shocking event in which 3 people lured police out to a semi-isolated farmlot (for a welfare check, ie people were concerned about the men living there not having or seen them for a while), then shot & killed 2 officers. The 3 people living on the property were killed (after bragging about killing the police on YouTube), and a kindly neighbour who came to assist was also killed.
We’re all, as a nation, in shock. For loads of reasons. This morning there are more than 8k people physically at the memorial service for the two police officers; more at several other formal locations where it’s televised; and it’s broadcast on national tv as well.
Further, most people agree we should have a national gun register.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/dec/20/australia-wide-firearms-register-on-national-cabinet-agenda-35-years-after-first-being-suggested
The running back for our local Canadian Football team, the Edmonton Elks was shot to death on a trip to visit family near Memphis, TN. Not a mass shooting but an illustration of the dangers inherent in visiting America.
Suspect Arrested in Deadly Stabbing of 2 on Train in Germany
You can bet that the German equivalent of the Times isn't running a story every time two people happen to get killed in America.
It's hard to even comprehend the difference in the levels of violence between the civilized countries of the world and the American abattoir.
I’m sorry for appearing dense. I just don’t understand this decision:
Who would allow children to carry guns in public?? Ever??!!?? Why would it ever be necessary??? What is wrong in Missouri???
https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/nashville-shooting-covenant-school-03-27-23/index.html
At least 3 children and 3 adults killed in Nashville elementary school shooting
129 mass shootings in the USA so far this year.
I’m just aghast that this is still going on. 
I mean, this wasn't the only reason I left the US but it was part of it.
I just got back from two weeks dealing with a family emergency in Oregon and the amount of pro shooter nonsense I saw down there was just astonishing. The photo below is from google images but I saw the same picture on the back of dozens of pickups all throughout the Willamette Valley. I got to stand behind one gaping ####### in the grocery line who had a Mini 14 with a banana clip strapped to his back. It was uncomfortable.
GoSlugs said:
I mean, this wasn't the only reason I left the US but it was part of it.
I just got back from two weeks dealing with a family emergency in Oregon and the amount of pro shooter nonsense I saw down there was just astonishing. The photo below is from google images but I saw the same picture on the back of dozens of pickups all throughout the Willamette Valley. I got to stand behind one gaping ####### in the grocery line who had a Mini 14 with a banana clip strapped to his back. It was uncomfortable.
Even the A-Team kept their Mini-14's in the van.
So, you know it’s harder to own guns here, and gun crime is low. Doesn’t mean we’re not killing each other: one-hit punches, knives, cars, drugs, all kinds of things.
Which is why we’re now discussing Jack’s Law:
https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/97055
““Wanding has proven to be a very effective proactive initiative for police to prevent violent crimes in Surfers Paradise and I’m very supportive of the expansion of these measures across the State,” Deputy Commissioner Wheeler said.
“Throughout the trial we have seen hundreds of dangerous weapons being detected and taken off our streets.
“There is absolutely no reason why a law-abiding citizen needs to arm themselves with knives, knuckle dusters or screw drivers as we have seen on the Gold Coast.
“Police conducting wanding in certain areas sends a very clear message to anyone contemplating taking a weapon into a public place that it is an offence and you will likely be caught.””
(my bold)
And you’re still allowing people to walk into schools, shops, hotels etc and just shoot randomly…
joanne said:
So, you know it’s harder to own guns here, and gun crime is low. Doesn’t mean we’re not killing each other: one-hit punches, knives, cars, drugs, all kinds of things.
Which is why we’re now discussing Jack’s Law:https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/97055
““Wanding has proven to be a very effective proactive initiative for police to prevent violent crimes in Surfers Paradise and I’m very supportive of the expansion of these measures across the State,” Deputy Commissioner Wheeler said.
“Throughout the trial we have seen hundreds of dangerous weapons being detected and taken off our streets.
“There is absolutely no reason why a law-abiding citizen needs to arm themselves with knives, knuckle dusters or screw drivers as we have seen on the Gold Coast.
“Police conducting wanding in certain areas sends a very clear message to anyone contemplating taking a weapon into a public place that it is an offence and you will likely be caught.””
(my bold)And you’re still allowing people to walk into schools, shops, hotels etc and just shoot randomly…
This sounds like the "stop and frisk" policy we had in New York. One could argue its theoretical merits but, in practice, it was just an excuse for the worst sort of racist policing.
We've had massive protests and demonstrations for so many issues, civil rights, women's rights but it took the youngest citizens to organize marches for gun control, the March for Our Lives was 5 years ago, and I keep wondering where is the adult follow through.
Mothers marched to protect their sons from being drafted during the Vietman war so I keep hoping mothers, fathers, all good citizens will flood the streets to protest these ongoing mass shootings.
I was watching coverage of this weeks protests in Israel and the protests in France and wondering what is wrong with us as we watch the news and then change the channel.
Morganna said:
We've had massive protests and demonstrations for so many issues, civil rights, women's rights but it took the youngest citizens to organize marches for gun control, the March for Our Lives was 5 years ago, and I keep wondering where is the adult follow through.
Mothers marched to protect their sons from being drafted during the Vietman war so I keep hoping mothers, fathers, all good citizens will flood the streets to protest these ongoing mass shootings.
I was watching coverage of this weeks protests in Israel and the protests in France and wondering what is wrong with us as we watch the news and then change the channel.
I think we don’t have the unity other countries have today. There’s a deep divide in America that is fracturing it beyond repair. So much hatred and animosity towards each other it’s frightening.
For one thing, the protests in Israel and France have very clearly defined goals. Like during Vietnam the goal was simply "Stop the war". It's easy for people to get behind that.
What exactly would be the goal of protests against mass shootings? Enactment of meaningless gun control laws? There has to be something that really fires people up as a solution to the problem. And I don't see anything like that.
400 million guns,
Our gun culture has so polluted us that there is no short term solution to the problem.
I thought this was a very good overview of the gun situation here.
https://www.vox.com/23142734/covenant-school-nashville-mass-shootings
Great discussion around this very point, and there are many calls for a high level Inquiry into police conduct Re racist actions/neglect etc. Nevertheless, many people feel the entertainment districts need these kinds of laws (so that Security bods can do more to stop the stupid fights currently causing great harm/death).
We’ve already replaced most glass in bars & lounges with plastic/shatterproof melamine stuff.
From what I understand, you have to really plan your night of mayhem, instead of just being unlucky (unless you’re the victim).
GoSlugs said:
This sounds like the "stop and frisk" policy we had in New York. One could argue its theoretical merits but, in practice, it was just an excuse for the worst sort of racist policing.
drummerboy said:
Other than repealing the 2nd amendment (which I wish more people would talk about) and starting over again, we're going to have to deal with this problem for many, many years.
Our gun culture has so polluted us that there is no short term solution to the problem.
There's nothing to talk about. Under the current rules, repealing the 2nd Amendment is a political impossibility. Too many statelets would have to sign off on it (yet again, I ask, do we really need two Dakotas). You might as well just plan on using magic to make all the guns disappear.
As long as the current Constitution is in effect, nothing can be done to solve this problem. With that in mind, the only solution should be obvious.
Morganna said:
We've had massive protests and demonstrations for so many issues, civil rights, women's rights but it took the youngest citizens to organize marches for gun control, the March for Our Lives was 5 years ago, and I keep wondering where is the adult follow through.
Mothers marched to protect their sons from being drafted during the Vietman war so I keep hoping mothers, fathers, all good citizens will flood the streets to protest these ongoing mass shootings.
I was watching coverage of this weeks protests in Israel and the protests in France and wondering what is wrong with us as we watch the news and then change the channel.
The 2017 protests after Trump's inauguration were significant. Unfortunately, Trump didn't care and did everything he could to destroy women's rights in America.
GoSlugs said:
Too many statelets would have to sign off on it (yet again, I ask, do we really need two Dakotas).
How many bona fide states would you bank on to ratify a repeal?
GoSlugs said:
There's nothing to talk about. Under the current rules, repealing the 2nd Amendment is a political impossibility. Too many statelets would have to sign off on it (yet again, I ask, do we really need two Dakotas). You might as well just plan on using magic to make all the guns disappear.
As long as the current Constitution is in effect, nothing can be done to solve this problem. With that in mind, the only solution should be obvious.
And what's the obvious solution?
As for repealing the 2nd amendment, I have no illusions about it happening anytime soon, but I think it would be useful if the idea that the 2nd amendment is not sacrosanct started to become part of our discourse. Pretty much everyone on the gun control side of the debate gives lip service to the notion that we need to honor the 2nd amendment. As long as this is the case, it makes it near impossible to do anything substantive.
DaveSchmidt said:
How many bona fide states would you bank on to ratify a repeal?
No clue. Not enough though.
drummerboy said:
And what's the obvious solution?
A new democratic Constitution that values the votes of human beings over those of 19th century territorial constructs.
The fact that Wyoming has the same votes in the Senate as California is a shocking injustice that invalidates any claim the US Government might make to being a democratic institution.
No clue. Not enough though.
I wouldn’t bank on even one. But let’s say it’s as many as 30. Here’s your pro-ratification map with its new statelets-cum-state:
GoSlugs said:
drummerboy said:
And what's the obvious solution?
A new democratic Constitution that values the votes of human beings over those of 19th century territorial constructs.
The fact that Wyoming has the same votes in the Senate as California is a shocking injustice that invalidates any claim the US Government might make to being a democratic institution.
That's not a solution, that's a wish list.
Let the Southern States secede and become a new nation known as Dumbfu*kistan. We can then amend out Constitution to fix what needs fixing (e.g., First Amendment is for people, not corporations and Second Amendment (which really just needs to be interpreted correctly) actually requires a well-regulated militia in order to have a right to arms, and the whole Senate/Electoral College thing). When those idiots want to return to the fold, they'll be stuck with what we've done.
nohero said:
GoSlugs said:
drummerboy said:
And what's the obvious solution?
A new democratic Constitution that values the votes of human beings over those of 19th century territorial constructs.
The fact that Wyoming has the same votes in the Senate as California is a shocking injustice that invalidates any claim the US Government might make to being a democratic institution.
That's not a solution, that's a wish list.
As is repealing the 2nd amendment. Magical thinking.
Steve said:
Let the Southern States secede and become a new nation known as Dumbfu*kistan.
If you were to reorganize North America along lines of national interest, I think you would come up with something like this:
- The Northeastern Union (the eastern seaboard and Toronto)
- The Confederate States of America (Dumbfu*kistan)
- Greater Texas (Texas, New Mexico and Arizona)
- Nowheretopia (Kansas, Nebraska, the Dakotas, Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, Manitoba, Alberta, Saskatchewan Alaska, etc)
- Flyover Land (the Midwest)
- Pacific States of America (California, Western Oregon, Western Washington, British Columbia, Hawaii)
Obviously there would be some leftovers. I'm not sure what could be done with them.
We could also split California in half, make DC and PR states, and combine the Dakotas and Montana in one state and we'd be well on our way to restoring a bit of democracy to this nation.
GoSlugs said:
If you were to reorganize North America along lines of national interest, I think you would come up with something like this:
- The Northeastern Union (the eastern seaboard and Toronto)
- The Confederate States of America (Dumbfu*kistan)
- Greater Texas (Texas, New Mexico and Arizona)
- Nowheretopia (Kansas, Nebraska, the Dakotas, Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, Manitoba, Alberta, Saskatchewan Alaska, etc)
- Flyover Land (the Midwest)
- Pacific States of America (California, Western Oregon, Western Washington, British Columbia, Hawaii)
Obviously there would be some leftovers. I'm not sure what could be done with them.
the fallacy is the notion of "red" and "blue" states. The differences in political and social attitudes are rural vs. suburban vs. urban. Every one of the 50 states has its share of MAGA counties, as well as bluer than blue counties. If the old confederate states seceded, where does that leave all the people in places like Louisville, Austin, Birmingham etc., who are more like people in NYC or Essex County than people in Warren and Sussex counties in NJ.
Maybe there would be a huge sorting of residents, with people in rural areas of the Northeast heading for the South, and urban dwellers from the South heading north. But it's not likely.
The reality is that as much as right wing people like to talk about secession, it's not going to happen. Their city dwellers aren't likely to vote in favor of leaving the U.S. to become part of a new ultra-right wing country.
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The shooter's father's statements are unfathomable, and he appears to be high on something when he says them (most commenters think it's Meth). He basically says it's better for his kid to be a murderer than gay... and that this belief is because he identifies as a conservative Republican Mormon.
The anti-gay/pro-gun political messaging and religious brainwashing have been very effective on this man (and his son). But he wasn't supposed to say the quiet part out loud.
This unvarnished truth should change or destroy all the institutions that preach hate over love... especially the ones that pretend they don't.
Will more people see this hypocrisy for what it is? Will the messaging from these institutions change a little bit? Will the act of a brave, supportive, and unarmed veteran who stopped the rampage, and who still lost someone he was close to, help the brainwashed question if they would prefer to be heroic like him, or to continue to carry this Meth-head's horrific message as their own belief?