Pope Francis, Catholics, and Christians in the news worldwide
mtierney said:
Yet another account of a long journey toward sainthood ….
Haven't you heard? Republicans don't like people who were captured by the enemy. Please align with your party's official MAGA doctrines.
mtierney said:
dave said:
mtierney said:
Yet another account of a long journey toward sainthood ….
Haven't you heard? Republicans don't like people who were captured by the enemy. Please align with your party's official MAGA doctrines.
Say what?
You say people don't read your links, but I think as you read them, you fail to intuit an interesting or practical response. MAGA Republicans view POWs the way Trump does: as losers. Even worse if they're KIA as Trump noted while touring a World War II grave site in France, calling the fallen "losers". Your party, your frontrunner. Your candidate for sainthood as described in your link was, like John McCain, captured by the North Koreans. That's a persona non-grata according to the MAGAs in control of the Republican party promoting fascism nation-wide.
Republicans have no platform other than protecting the super wealthy, so they rely on demonizing small populations, which can only them so Farr.
mtierney said:
More saintly news….
Ricci Hall is a dorm name at University of Hong Kong. He was a slave catcher (of Africans) for the Portuguese and owned a few himself. Par the times he lived in, I guess (1552-1610).
Jonathan Spence wrote an interesting book about him titled The Memory Palace of Matteo Ricci.
https://www.amazon.com/Memory-Palace-Matteo-Ricci/dp/0140080988
dave said:
Ricci Hall is a dorm name at University of Hong Kong. He was a slave catcher (of Africans) for the Portuguese and owned a few himself. Par the times he lived in, I guess (1552-1610).
Jonathan Spence wrote an interesting book about him titled The Memory Palace of Matteo Ricci.
https://www.amazon.com/Memory-Palace-Matteo-Ricci/dp/0140080988
I agree about the Jonathan Spence book. The term "memory palace" refers to Ricci's techniques and incredible talent for memorization. He was able to learn the language and culture, as part of his effort to translate religious concepts.
Of course, nowadays the right-wing opponents of Pope Francis would accuse someone like him of diluting the faith instead of enriching it by making connections to the traditions of the people he was reaching out to.
Dave must be out of the country way too long. So many misconceptions in one post!
“Your party, your frontrunner. Your candidate for sainthood as described in your link was, like John McCain, captured by the North Koreans. That's a persona non-grata according to the MAGAs in control of the Republican party promoting fascism nation-wide.”
The Make America Great Again voters brought Trump into the White House to the shock of the entire world. During his term in office, he was hounded by the sore loser Democrats with investigation after investigation, trials, and, then, Covid reared its worldwide ugly presence.
The Dems have been dissing the 73 million Americans who voted for Trump continually to this day. Who do you think these folks blame for the mess in Washington today? And it is not Trump.
I do not believe a Biden/Harris ticket can or win the hearts, minds, and votes of the people. Way too much suppressed garbage overflowing and emerging from the Biden family basements — and the veep, well, has proven her inability to be understood nationally — internationally? Forgetaboutit!
When the GOP challengers present themselves on the campaign trail (I understand there is no selection process planned for the DNC — it is in the bag) the American voters will tell the politicians what they want, and who they want in the White House.
mtierney said:
Dave must be out of the country way too long. So many misconceptions in one post!
“Your party, your frontrunner. Your candidate for sainthood as described in your link was, like John McCain, captured by the North Koreans. That's a persona non-grata according to the MAGAs in control of the Republican party promoting fascism nation-wide.”
The Make America Great Again voters brought Trump into the White House to the shock of the entire world. During his term in office, he was hounded by the sore loser Democrats with investigation after investigation, trials, and, then, Covid reared its worldwide ugly presence.
The Dems have been dissing the 73 million Americans who voted for Trump continually to this day. Who do you think these folks blame for the mess in Washington today? And it is not Trump.
I do not believe a Biden/Harris ticket can or win the hearts, minds, and votes of the people. Way too much suppressed garbage overflowing and emerging from the Biden family basements — and the veep, well, has proven her inability to be understood nationally — internationally? Forgetaboutit!
When the GOP challengers present themselves on the campaign trail (I understand there is no selection process planned for the DNC — it is in the bag) the American voters will tell the politicians what they want, and who they want in the White House.
Funny how you can talk about the American voters telling politicians who they want in the white house, but you're so dismissive of the 81 million Americans who voted for Biden.
PS John McCain was captured by the North Vietnamese after being shot down near Hanoi.
mtierney said:
I do not believe a Biden/Harris ticket can or win the hearts, minds, and votes of the people. Way too much suppressed garbage overflowing and emerging from the Biden family basements — and the veep, well, has proven her inability to be understood nationally — internationally? Forgetaboutit!
You'd have to be insane to think that those two could ever beat Trump.
mtierney said:
Dave must be out of the country way too long. So many misconceptions in one post!
“Your party, your frontrunner. Your candidate for sainthood as described in your link was, like John McCain, captured by the North Koreans. That's a persona non-grata according to the MAGAs in control of the Republican party promoting fascism nation-wide.”
The Make America Great Again voters brought Trump into the White House to the shock of the entire world. During his term in office, he was hounded by the sore loser Democrats with investigation after investigation, trials, and, then, Covid reared its worldwide ugly presence.
Dave got the war wrong but the description of Trump right.
mtierney said:
The Make America Great Again voters brought Trump into the White House to the DISGUST of the entire world.
Fixed that for you. Also, its worth noting that, as the other candidate got 4 million more votes, it was not voters that made Trump the President, it was a technicality of the American constitutional system, a technicality that would not have occurred in any other western democracy.
GoSlugs said:
mtierney said:
The Make America Great Again voters brought Trump into the White House to the DISGUST of the entire world.Fixed that for you. Also, its worth noting that, as the other candidate got 4 million more votes, it was not voters that made Trump the President, it was a technicality of the American constitutional system, a technicality that would not have occurred in any other western democracy.
Presently, what are you doing to "fix" the electoral college? Aternatively, do you support repeal of the winner-take-all elector rule for presidential elections?
Thanks in advance.
RealityForAll said:
Presently, what are you doing to "fix" the electoral college? Aternatively, do you support repeal of the winner-take-all elector rule for presidential elections?
Thanks in advance.
I really don't want to get into a conversation with you (too many "misunderstandings") but I will refer you to the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact and remind you that google is your friend.
RealityForAll said:
PS John McCain was captured by the North Vietnamese after being shot down near Hanoi.
Yes, we know. I don’t think Dave meant it as a 100% analogy.
Maybe Trump only hates Vietnam era POWs? They were, we should remember, distracting people from the valor he displayed in that same period with reference to STDs.
"You know, if you're young, and in this era, and if you have any guilt about not having gone to Vietnam, we have our own Vietnam — it's called the dating game," Dating is like being in Vietnam. You're the equivalent of a soldier going over to Vietnam."
"It's amazing, I can't even believe it. I've been so lucky in terms of that whole world, it is a dangerous world out there. It's like Vietnam, sort of. It is my personal Vietnam. I feel like a great and very brave solider,"
-DJT on the Howard Stern Show in 1997
GoSlugs said:
RealityForAll said:
Presently, what are you doing to "fix" the electoral college? Aternatively, do you support repeal of the winner-take-all elector rule for presidential elections?
Thanks in advance.
I really don't want to get into a conversation with you (too many "misunderstandings") but I will refer you to the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact and remind you that google is your friend.
My understanding is that the
National Popular Vote Interstate Compact ("NPVIC") is a repeal of the winner-take-all rule by states adopting the NPVIC. The twist is that the NPVIC would not become effective until a "critical mass" of states adopt the NPVIC. Let me know if my understanding of the NPVIC lines up with your understanding of the issue.
PS Why have you apparently not looked at other alternatives such as constitutional amendment? Or, perhaps admission of additional state(s)? And, thus more electors.
PPS I love a good substantive discussion.
RealityForAll said:
My understanding is that the
National Popular Vote Interstate Compact ("NPVIC") is a repeal of the winner-take-all rule by states adopting the NPVIC. The twist is that the NPVIC would not become effective until a "critical mass" of states adopt the NPVIC. Let me know if my understanding of the NPVIC lines up with your understanding of the issue.
PS Why have you apparently not looked at other alternatives such as constitutional amendment? Or, perhaps admission of additional state(s)? And, thus more electors.
PPS I love a good substantive discussion.
Since you also brought this up in the Rose Garden thread, this seems an issue you are keen to discuss. The electoral college and the winner take all are both anti-democratic, but in two different way. The problem of the EC is that the candidate with the fewer number of votes can become the winner. That's obviously anti-democratic, one of several anti-democratic features the founders built into the system. My crack about "mob rule" was a reference to the standard justification/explanation for these features, that the founders feared mob rule, and the irony here is that their supposed safeguards in the case of Trump have done the opposite as they have elevated a person who literally summoned a mob.
Winner take all is a different problem, in that a plurality is enough to win. True, unlike with the EC it doesn't run the risk of awarding the win to the candidate with fewer votes, but it's still a problem if the winner doesn't represent the majority of the votes.
The interaction of both of these features compounds the anti-democratic features of our system.
PVW said:
RealityForAll said:
My understanding is that the
National Popular Vote Interstate Compact ("NPVIC") is a repeal of the winner-take-all rule by states adopting the NPVIC. The twist is that the NPVIC would not become effective until a "critical mass" of states adopt the NPVIC. Let me know if my understanding of the NPVIC lines up with your understanding of the issue.
PS Why have you apparently not looked at other alternatives such as constitutional amendment? Or, perhaps admission of additional state(s)? And, thus more electors.
PPS I love a good substantive discussion.
Since you also brought this up in the Rose Garden thread, this seems an issue you are keen to discuss. The electoral college and the winner take all are both anti-democratic, but in two different way. The problem of the EC is that the candidate with the fewer number of votes can become the winner. That's obviously anti-democratic, one of several anti-democratic features the founders built into the system. My crack about "mob rule" was a reference to the standard justification/explanation for these features, that the founders feared mob rule, and the irony here is that their supposed safeguards in the case of Trump have done the opposite as they have elevated a person who literally summoned a mob.
Winner take all is a different problem, in that a plurality is enough to win. True, unlike with the EC it doesn't run the risk of awarding the win to the candidate with fewer votes, but it's still a problem if the winner doesn't represent the majority of the votes.
The interaction of both of these features compounds the anti-democratic features of our system.
A couple of observations as follows:
1. EC ensures that "winner" has a majority of electors.
2. Eliminating the EC, and replacing it with the candidate with the most votes being deemed the "winner" presents new problems. Where the "winner"
has a mere plurality, (but not a majority, presents legitimacy problems.
3. Elimination of EC would likely provide more political power to NY, NJ, and IL at the expense of smaller, interior states. Why would such smaller states agree to such elimination of the EC?
4. According to Wikipedia, more than 700 proposals/attempts to eliminate the EC have been proposed over the last 200 or so years. IOW, based on our history, low chance of success in eliminating the EC.
5. Is the NPVIC constitutional? I can imagine the argument would be made that the NPVIC is an "end run" to eliminate the EC without a constitutional amendment. I acknowledge that you have analyzed the EC repeal and NPVIC as addressing very separate issues.
6. EC repeal or causing NPVIC to be controlling may cause propagation of multiple additional political parties. Crowning a presidential candidate with a mere plurality as the "winner" could allow a presidential candidate with 30% of popular vote being declared the "winner." My fear is such a "winner" would generally not be considered legitimate. And, would likely engender more extreme candidates.
You seem to be arguing that a system were the winner gets a plurality is worse than one where the winner gets fewer votes?
BTW, on the question of plurality vs majority, you should look into ranked choice voting, which an expanding number of places within the US have started using. Again, a separate issue from the electoral college.
PVW said:
BTW, on the question of plurality vs majority, you should look into ranked choice voting, which an expanding number of places within the US have started using. Again, a separate issue from the electoral college.
Thanks for the note on ranked choice voting. I will take a look.
PVW said:
BTW, on the question of plurality vs majority, you should look into ranked choice voting, which an expanding number of places within the US have started using. Again, a separate issue from the electoral college.
You have set no bottom number on your plurality. For example, I could likely live with a plurality "winner", who received say 47.5% of total (and, obviously, was the number one vote recipient among candidates). And, yes, a plurality "winner" where they only receive say 25%, or 30%, of total votes is much worse IMHO than pop-vote-loser/EC-winner. My fear is founded on the fact that when/if the EC/winner-take-all system is repealed then the country will quickly splinter into at least three or four parties. Thereby, causing a host of new problems.
Under the system we have today, for your scenario where the top two candidates won 30% and 25% of the vote respectively, the EC makes it possible that the one with 25% would be the winner. How is that better?
PVW said:
Under the system we have today, for your scenario where the top two candidates won 30% and 25% of the vote respectively, the EC makes it possible that the one with 25% would be the winner. How is that better?
Extremely unlikely (nearly impossible to have happen under current EC system) for top vote candidate to be overall #1 popular vote recipient at 30% of total popular vote. Even more unlikely for #2 vote candidate to be overall #2 popular vote recipient at 25% of total popular vote and win the EC.
The EC creates support for system to almost always have only two competitive parties. IOW, the EC/winner-take-all rule creates a system that is optimized for two parties (not one party, nor three parties). Thus, are we willing to further fractionalize the voters into more different, but smaller, political parties in order to eliminate the EC?
RealityForAll said:
The EC creates support for system to almost always have only two competitive parties. IOW, the EC/winner-take-all rule creates a system that is optimized for two parties (not one party, nor three parties).
You're going to have to actually make the argument for this rather than just posit it as a given.
mtierney said:
The Dems have been dissing the 73 million Americans who voted for Trump continually to this day. Who do you think these folks blame for the mess in Washington today? And it is not Trump.
I do not believe a Biden/Harris ticket can or win the hearts, minds, and votes of the people. Way too much suppressed garbage overflowing and emerging from the Biden family basements — and the veep, well, has proven her inability to be understood nationally — internationally? Forgetaboutit!
this is truly a weird comment.
PVW said:
You're going to have to actually make the argument for this rather than just posit it as a given.
it's not like having three viable candidates for POTUS is an artifact of ancient history. It's only been about 30 years since the U.S. twice elected a president with a plurality of the popular vote from among three major candidates.
not for nothing, but IMHO that was a better outcome than the two elections since in which the person who finished second became POTUS.
ml1 said:
mtierney said:
The Dems have been dissing the 73 million Americans who voted for Trump continually to this day. Who do you think these folks blame for the mess in Washington today? And it is not Trump.
I do not believe a Biden/Harris ticket can or win the hearts, minds, and votes of the people. Way too much suppressed garbage overflowing and emerging from the Biden family basements — and the veep, well, has proven her inability to be understood nationally — internationally? Forgetaboutit!
this is truly a weird comment.
Trump has been found liable for sexual battery, is under indictment and stands to be indicted in several other cases and the Biden's basement is overflowing? And then, of course, Harris continues not to be white so....
I guess if you get your news by reading the National Review, this all makes sense.
Did we ever find out why they dug the dehydrated nun up?