Pope Francis, Catholics, and Christians in the news

tjohn says:  "Perhaps the government should help with the cost of state universities and trade schools so that students don't have to go into such heavy debt."

Absolutely agree, and it's not as though that's never been done before.  I heard somebody a while back (and i wish i had the actual elegant quote) saying that state universities used to be valued assets, (almost fully) supported by their states, then as time went on the states "contributed" to support of their universities, and now the universities are "located" in their states....  

For some numbers (from 2014):  "In the 1970s, states paid 65 percent of the costs of college. By 2013, states covered a mere 30 percent of college costs. Like students who had to pay more, the federal government seemingly upped its commitment, covering just 10 percent in the 1970s and 16 percent today." https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/09/02/my-students-pay-too-much-for-college-blame-reagan/

(like the WaPo author quoted above, i tend to blame Reagan for the idea that the only real goods are private goods, but i'll admit that he like TFG was a symptom as well as a leader)


for whatever reason, this has become the student loan debt relief thread.

I thought this was an excellent piece explaining the need for relief, and debunking some of the arguments against it (like it'll be inflationary)

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/30/opinion/student-loan-debt-relief-biden.html

(how come not every NYT article has the choice to generate a non-paywalled link?)

ETA: answer - because I'm looking in the wrong place. duh.

unlocked link


Article’s availability must be geocached - paywall still there for me. cheese


joanne said:

Article’s availability must be geocached - paywall still there for me.
cheese

Try this.


Thought-provoking article, including the comments. (Gee, the range in your minimum wages is big! No wonder so many workers depend on tips to supplement their wages. )  We’ve just had a 2-day national jobs and skills summit, looking at our industrial relations environments (including education and training); even our worst sectors seem to have better/steadier minimum wage conditions than over there.  Must be incredibly hard to plan how you’ll pay off these big loans when you start studying. 

drummerboy said:

for whatever reason, this has become the student loan debt relief thread.

I thought this was an excellent piece explaining the need for relief, and debunking some of the arguments against it (like it'll be inflationary)

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/30/opinion/student-loan-debt-relief-biden.html

(how come not every NYT article has the choice to generate a non-paywalled link?)

ETA: answer - because I'm looking in the wrong place. duh.

unlocked link


drummerboy said:

for whatever reason, this has become the student loan debt relief thread.

Perhaps the reason is that thread readers are tired of the same old cycle, of Mtierney linking to a provocative conservative Catholic article consistent with Federalist Society values, followed by various more liberal readers debunking the claims and allegations, followed by Mtierney changing the subject with either an inspiring article from a religious journal showing an instance of love and compassion somewhere, or else another provocative article, followed by another defense.  I guess we all need some kind of "relief."  Nevertheless, it seems that there is more openness to discussing the debt forgiveness issue in it's current political, economic, social context, in light of religious values such as those reflected in the Lord's Prayer, etc.


I saw this elsewhere and it reminded me of this thread.


I thought someone would’ve mentioned this news here, by now:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/04/pope-francis-beatifies-john-paul-i

We’ll have a new Saint soon, the former Pope. No comments?


joanne said:

I thought someone would’ve mentioned this news here, by now:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/04/pope-francis-beatifies-john-paul-i

We’ll have a new Saint soon, the former Pope. No comments?

The Catholic Church will never learn.  Why is the Pope beatifying another pope.? In my opinion, they are all complicit in hundreds of years of abuse, terrorism, and corruption. Why not recognize a layperson somewhere that accomplished extraordinary things?


yahooyahoo said:

joanne said:

I thought someone would’ve mentioned this news here, by now:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/04/pope-francis-beatifies-john-paul-i

We’ll have a new Saint soon, the former Pope. No comments?

The Catholic Church will never learn.  Why is the Pope beatifying another pope.? In my opinion, they are all complicit in hundreds of years of abuse, terrorism, and corruption. Why not recognize a layperson somewhere that accomplished extraordinary things?

Am I reading that article correctly that he was Pope for 33 days?


drummerboy said:

Am I reading that article correctly that he was Pope for 33 days?

yes… and it took mother Theresa an entire lifetime…and 19 years after her death become a saint.


drummerboy said:

Am I reading that article correctly that he was Pope for 33 days?

yes, and there has been a few other pontiffs with short reign




John Paul I served as Roman Pontiff from Aug. 26–Sept. 28, 1978, 33 calendar days.

His beatification on Sept. 4 renewed attention to his life. He had a reputation for humility and for teaching the faith in an understandable way.

The future John Paul I took part in the Second Vatican Council and was named patriarch of Venice.

As a cardinal, Luciani published a collection of “open letters” to historic figures, saints, famous writers, and fictional characters. The book, “Illustrissimi,” included letters to Jesus, King David, Mark Twain, Charles Dickens, and Christopher Marlowe, as well as Pinocchio and Figaro, the barber of Seville.

He was the first pope to have two names. He took his papal name from his immediate predecessors, Sts. John XXIII and Paul VI.


Francis should just pour a bottle of Evian into an empty bottle of yellow tail Chardonnay…and be done.


mtierney said:

A review of the book about the Western world’s oldest institution…

Rabbinic Judaism?


The more we learn about various First Nations people and their societies, including land management, trade between clans and distant groups, and marriage and civil law customs, the more we realise they’re not the quaint simplistic naive fools Euro-centric societies and Hollywood have portrayed. 
Their history and customs go back thousands of years; their traditional society groups are often many hundreds of generations old; and over here at least (and throughout Asia and NZ) this history can be read via revered caves, rocks, waterfalls, hollowed trees containing ancient bones etc. 
cheese I suspect a couple of Māori or Koori or Islander brotherhood/elder ‘clubs’ would be at least as old as the idea of Christianity if not significantly older. 


https://thefederalist.com/2022/10/04/codify-roe-is-bidens-euphemism-for-democrats-atrocious-aim-unregulated-abortion-anywhere-anytime/

Politics and abortion will make a poor platform for politicians and voters in the mid-term elections — voters want much from their elected representatives in Washington, such as assurances that inflation, already here, will not soon be joined by recession, now standing in the wings.


And that is why people laugh at you when you cite the federalist. 


Pope Francis, this morning -

"Let us ask ourselves if we are really communities truly open and inclusive of all; if we cooperate, as priests and laity, in the service of the Gospel; and if we show ourselves welcoming, not only in words but with concrete gestures, to those both near and far, and all those buffeted by the ups and downs of life. Do we make them feel a part of the community? Or do we exclude them? I am troubled when I see Christian communities that divide the world into the good and the bad, saints and sinners: this makes them feel superior to others and exclude so many people that God wants to embrace. Please, always be inclusive: in the Church and in society, which is still marred by many forms of inequality and marginalization. Always be inclusive. Today, the day in which Bishop Scalabrini becomes a saint, I think of emigrants. The exclusion of emigrants is scandalous. Actually, the exclusion of emigrants is criminal."

Holy Mass and Canonization (9 October 2022) | Francis (vatican.va)


I read the part of his address where the Pope said: ‘Do we welcome [migrants] as brothers, or do we exploit them?’ then thought of all the political mileage made over refugee and asylum seeker issues while new settler issues just lag for years. He’s right, it is criminal and exploitative. 


joanne said:

I read the part of his address where the Pope said: ‘Do we welcome [migrants] as brothers, or do we exploit them?’ then thought of all the political mileage made over refugee and asylum seeker issues while new settler issues just lag for years. He’s right, it is criminal and exploitative. 

Certainly politics and expediency made FDR’s decision to turn back a ship of fleeing Jewish men, women and children from  debarking in New York — returning them to certain death in Nazi concentration camps.

Who was it that opined that everything is politics?


mtierney said:

Who was it that opined that everything is politics?

St. Augustine. Or Kierkegaard. Depends on how you read them.


nohero said:

mtierney said:

Who was it that opined that everything is politics?

St. Augustine. Or Kierkegaard. Depends on how you read them.

it wasn't Frank Hague?


mtierney said:

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/252524/tulsi-gabbard-leaves-democratic-party-cites-hostility-to-people-of-faith

Gabbard switching political “pews”? 

If you're using a church analogy, she's not switching pews, she's leaving the Church.

Of course, for several years she's been sitting in the "Democratic pews" with her head spinning and spewing green pea soup, so she needed either an exorcism or to make a change in parties.


mtierney said:

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/252524/tulsi-gabbard-leaves-democratic-party-cites-hostility-to-people-of-faith

Gabbard switching political “pews”? 

she's a liar. The Democratic Party is not "hostile" to people of faith. In fact, the Democratic Party is so strong among people of faith in the South, that the GOP in Georgia passed a bill to prohibit voting on Sundays in order to stop churches from running "Souls to the Polls" buses after services.

I probably don't need to tell you, but I will anyway. These were predominantly Black churches running these GOTV efforts. 

I guess to people like yourself and Tulsi Gabbard, Black churches don't count among "people of faith."

Attacking Sunday voting is part of a long tradition of controlling Black Americans 

The centuries-long battle over Sunday activities is really about African Americans’ freedom and agency.


nohero said:

Of course, for several years she's been sitting in the "Democratic pews" with her head spinning and spewing green pea soup, so she needed either an exorcism or to make a change in parties.

If you are bat #### crazy, there's really only one party for you these days.  

The woman is unelectable in her home district, I suspect she is angling for a cabinet position in some future Trump Imperium. Of course, I don't know if even Trump is stupid enough to go rolling around in that hot mess but no one ever lost money underestimating MAGA intelligence.


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