Pope Francis, Catholics, and Christians in the news

tjohn said:

So, Mtierney, may we conclude that you don't mind that a lot of women are going to suffer under these new laws?

Wrong conclusion yet again!

Rather, I see great opportunities  ahead for childless couples to adopt babies, and raise them with love.


mtierney said:

Wrong conclusion yet again!

Rather, I see great opportunities  ahead for childless couples to adopt babies, and raise them with love.

When in the past were these opportunities not available?


mtierney said:

tjohn said:

So, Mtierney, may we conclude that you don't mind that a lot of women are going to suffer under these new laws?

Wrong conclusion yet again!

Rather, I see great opportunities  ahead for childless couples to adopt babies, and raise them with love.

So, no exceptions for rape, incest and medical problems.

And you are okay forcing a women to complete her pregnancy so that some couple may adopt this child.

Cruel.


tjohn said:

So, no exceptions for rape, incest and medical problems.

And you are okay forcing a women to complete her pregnancy so that some couple may adopt this child.

Cruel.

Change that to "in the hope' that some couple may adopt the child. 


mtierney said:

tjohn said:

So, Mtierney, may we conclude that you don't mind that a lot of women are going to suffer under these new laws?

Wrong conclusion yet again!

Rather, I see great opportunities  ahead for childless couples to adopt babies, and raise them with love.

It's the "Underpants Gnome" version of a plan, don't worry about the middle part.


The middle part is 9 months of unwanted pregnancy and $10-20k in birthing fees if you're uninsured.


mtierney said:

tjohn said:

So, Mtierney, may we conclude that you don't mind that a lot of women are going to suffer under these new laws?

Wrong conclusion yet again!

Rather, I see great opportunities  ahead for childless couples to adopt babies, and raise them with love.

It's frightening how you people believe your own bullsh!t.


There is nothing new about mtierney's attitudes towards child rape, I have been highlighting them for years. 

 I have to say that I have received considerable pushback from folks here, even from individuals that now, quite rightly, regard her as a "monster". I guess it is just a happy coincidence that this shift in attitudes coincides with the rise of a political issue that figures largely in the minds of centrist Democrats (and anyone else with a shred of conscience).


https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/251828/vp-kamala-harris-religious-faith-abortion-support

Excerpt….

“Washington, D.C. Newsroom, Jul 19, 2022 / 16:23 pm

“Vice President Kamala Harris is drawing criticism for again claiming that Americans of any religion can support abortion in accordance with their faith.

“It’s important to note that to support a woman’s ability — not her government, but her — to make that decision does not require anyone to abandon their faith or their beliefs,” Harris said Monday at the NAACP National Convention in Atlantic City, N.J.

“Harris, a Baptist, has made this assertion about abortion before.

“For those of us of faith, I think that we agree, many of us, that there’s nothing about this issue that will require anyone to abandon their faith or change their faith,” she said on June 17, at Dulles International Airport in Dulles, Va.”

The good news is that few people understood what she was saying!



mtierney said:

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/251828/vp-kamala-harris-religious-faith-abortion-support

Excerpt….

“Washington, D.C. Newsroom, Jul 19, 2022 / 16:23 pm

“Vice President Kamala Harris is drawing criticism for again claiming that Americans of any religion can support abortion in accordance with their faith.

“It’s important to note that to support a woman’s ability — not her government, but her — to make that decision does not require anyone to abandon their faith or their beliefs,” Harris said Monday at the NAACP National Convention in Atlantic City, N.J.

“Harris, a Baptist, has made this assertion about abortion before.

“For those of us of faith, I think that we agree, many of us, that there’s nothing about this issue that will require anyone to abandon their faith or change their faith,” she said on June 17, at Dulles International Airport in Dulles, Va.”

The good news is that few people understood what she was saying!


The people of Ireland fully understand what she's saying. 

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/rite-reason-why-irish-catholics-voted-to-remove-eighth-1.3511336

"One aspect of the spirituality embedded in the Irish psyche was what, in a memorable metaphor, Prof Lennon refers to as "the seamlessness of the sacred and secular spheres".

This seamlessness suggests one important reason for the failure of state-sponsored Protestantism to take root among the general population. Many Irish people resonate to religion, but they do not want it forced upon them by the organs of officialdom.

It has taken time for people to be willing to reject publicly the culture of control and to remove Catholic-inspired laws from the civic sphere. In a liberal democracy, Christianity should not be used to curtail civic freedom and no church should expect state law to buttress those of its tenets that are not universally shared in society.

Misguided and ill-judged, the [eighth] amendment neatly illustrates one of the lessons of history, namely, that laws can have unpredictable consequences.

It is pleasing to no longer to feel complicit in the retention of an illiberal provision that was inimical to the health and welfare of women."

As do the people of Argentina and Mexico.

https://www.npr.org/2020/12/30/951001451/argentina-legalizes-abortion-in-historic-senate-vote

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/07/1034925270/mexico-abortion-decriminalized-supreme-court

Percentage of Catholics

US 22%

Ireland 78.3%

Argentina 62.9%

Mexico 78%

So if your bird looks confused, it might be because it's looking in a mirror.


I don't believe this question has been answered.

@mtierney, you didn't answer a simple question which will help us understand just how cruel you are.

Do you believe abortion should be permitted in cases of rape, incest, medical emergency or birth defects?

And, for what it is worth, I suspect that if it involved somebody you cared about, you would be all about choice.


tjohn said:

I don't believe this question has been answered.

@mtierney, you didn't answer a simple question which will help us understand just how cruel you are.

Do you believe abortion should be permitted in cases of rape, incest, medical emergency or birth defects?

And, for what it is worth, I suspect that if it involved somebody you cared about, you would be all about choice.

My impression is that mtierney sees rape as a choice on the part of the victim.  Obviously, this is madness, but, if you accept that as her point of view, it is easy to see why she would not support an abortion option in those instances.

Edited to add: Mtierney if this is a gross mischaracterization of your views, please clarify your views about the relationship between the way rape victims dress and behave and their fate. 


I am having a bit of brain fog this morning due to an ongoing migraine but there is a word that she frequently uses to describe the behavior of individuals who are raped.  It turns out that, in her mind at least, the rapists are the real victim.


{hoping the migraine  has eased at least a bit}

GoSlugs said:

I am having a bit of brain fog this morning due to an ongoing migraine but there is a word that she frequently uses to describe the behavior of individuals who are raped.  It turns out that, in her mind at least, the rapists are the real victim.


mtierney said:

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/251828/vp-kamala-harris-religious-faith-abortion-support

Excerpt….

“Washington, D.C. Newsroom, Jul 19, 2022 / 16:23 pm

“Vice President Kamala Harris is drawing criticism for again claiming that Americans of any religion can support abortion in accordance with their faith.

“It’s important to note that to support a woman’s ability — not her government, but her — to make that decision does not require anyone to abandon their faith or their beliefs,” Harris said Monday at the NAACP National Convention in Atlantic City, N.J.

“Harris, a Baptist, has made this assertion about abortion before.

“For those of us of faith, I think that we agree, many of us, that there’s nothing about this issue that will require anyone to abandon their faith or change their faith,” she said on June 17, at Dulles International Airport in Dulles, Va.”

The good news is that few people understood what she was saying!


it's perfectly understandable.  Your faith doesn't require you to impose its beliefs on other people not of your faith. Allowing other people access to abortion is not inconsistent with your faith.


GoSlugs said:

I am having a bit of brain fog this morning due to an ongoing migraine but there is a word that she frequently uses to describe the behavior of individuals who are raped.  It turns out that, in her mind at least, the rapists are the real victim.


Happy Feast day of St. Mary of Magdala,  Apostle to the apostles, first witness to the resurrection. 


Being a grandparent, like being a parent, is a function of biology.  Father's Day, Mother's Day and, I suppose "Grandparents Day" can be difficult for people who were, in one way or another, traumatized by that particular genetic donor. 

My grandfather, for example, was violent man who was far more likely to hurt the people he encountered than help them. His only real contribution to my life was that he gave me an appreciation for what my father had to overcome to be the good man and father that he became.

Maybe the day would be better spent honoring "good" grandparents? 

Or, perhaps, we should just honor all of the people who are good to us in our lives, regardless of genetics.

Just thinking on the page here.


GoSlugs said


Maybe the day would be better spent honoring "good" grandparents? 

Or, perhaps, we should just honor all of the people who are good to us in our lives, regardless of genetics.

Just thinking on the page here.

Both my father’s parents and my mother’s father were dead before I was born. I was very fortunate to have known and loved my mom’s mom, however.

As to your thought, perhaps  Valentine’s Day is a good time to acknowledge people who are special in our lives? I have often sent “thinking of you cards” to family and friends who I don’t often see.

I am so grateful to have had loving parents who told me wonderful stories of their  immigrant heritages, their journeys, and struggles in America. And happy to have been able to share them with my seven grandchildren— my two year old great grandchild is too young!

I am saddened to hear of your very different remembrances



The Pope landed here this morning. 


And this Christian support for trumpenstein will one day be an indictment on its validity? I think so. Fire and brimstone awaits these hypocrites.


mtierney, I'm asking as a very lapsed Catholic, has the Pope made any statements about the overturning of Roe v Wade? I have not scrolled far back on this thread but have been following recently. Do you think he might define any exceptions? 

As for VP Harris' statement, which may sound naive at a minimum to devout Catholics, I'm thinking back to a time when I heard many discussions between Catholics about continuing to go to Church while practicing birth control. More heated discussions surrounded the topic of continuing to receive the Eucharist. Then when divorce became easily available, once again I heard people arguing about it. Explicitly my parents. My father did not choose divorce, did many years later remarry, after giving up hope of reconciliation and was sorting through Church dogma. Was told of course that he was living in sin being remarried, which was amusing considering his age at the time, so no Sacrament for him. Once his second wife died he was able to be accepted back into the arms of Holy Mother Church.

Just wondering sincerely, if abortion is one of those issues in which Catholics will continue to practice their faith despite knowingly breaking the rules. I think many do and I did my time in Catholic School so I know the strict thinking.

What are your thoughts?


For Morgana….

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/251309/what-have-popes-and-the-vatican-said-about-catholic-politicians-abortion-and-holy-communion

The Church’s position on abortion has grown stronger, I believe, than ever before. Modern medicine and machines available today has given  the embryo, the pre-born infant, and abortion “a life before birth.”

One needs to remember that Pope Francis famously commented “Who am I to judge?”

From the link:

“John Paul II

“In his 1995 encyclical Evangelium vitae, Pope John Paul II wrote: “In a democratic system, where laws and decisions are made on the basis of the consensus of many, the sense of personal responsibility in the consciences of individuals invested with authority may be weakened. But no one can ever renounce this responsibility, especially when he or she has a legislative or decision-making mandate, which calls that person to answer to God, to his or her own conscience, and to the whole of society for choices which may be contrary to the common good.”

“Pope Francis

“Months after his election in 2013, Pope Francis said: “In a frail human being, each one of us is invited to recognize the face of the Lord, who in his human flesh experienced the indifference and solitude to which we so often condemn the poorest of the poor, whether in developing countries or in wealthy societies.”

“Every child who, rather than being born, is condemned unjustly to being aborted, bears the face of Jesus Christ, bears the face of the Lord, who even before he was born, and then just after birth, experienced the world’s rejection.”

In his 2015 encyclical Laudato si’, he wrote: “When we fail to acknowledge as part of reality the worth of a poor person, a human embryo, a person with disabilities — to offer just a few examples — it becomes difficult to hear the cry of nature itself; everything is connected.”

“Once the human being declares independence from reality and behaves with absolute dominion, the very foundations of our life begin to crumble, for ‘instead of carrying out his role as a cooperator with God in the work of creation, man sets himself up in place of God and thus ends up provoking a rebellion on the part of nature.’”





mtierney said:

For Morgana….

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/251309/what-have-popes-and-the-vatican-said-about-catholic-politicians-abortion-and-holy-communion

The Church’s position on abortion has grown stronger, I believe, than ever before. Modern medicine and machines available today has given  the embryo, the pre-born infant, and abortion “a life before birth.”

One needs to remember that Pope Francis famously commented “Who am I to judge?”

From the link:

“John Paul II

“In his 1995 encyclical Evangelium vitae, Pope John Paul II wrote: “In a democratic system, where laws and decisions are made on the basis of the consensus of many, the sense of personal responsibility in the consciences of individuals invested with authority may be weakened. But no one can ever renounce this responsibility, especially when he or she has a legislative or decision-making mandate, which calls that person to answer to God, to his or her own conscience, and to the whole of society for choices which may be contrary to the common good.”

“Pope Francis

“Months after his election in 2013, Pope Francis said: “In a frail human being, each one of us is invited to recognize the face of the Lord, who in his human flesh experienced the indifference and solitude to which we so often condemn the poorest of the poor, whether in developing countries or in wealthy societies.”

“Every child who, rather than being born, is condemned unjustly to being aborted, bears the face of Jesus Christ, bears the face of the Lord, who even before he was born, and then just after birth, experienced the world’s rejection.”

In his 2015 encyclical Laudato si’, he wrote: “When we fail to acknowledge as part of reality the worth of a poor person, a human embryo, a person with disabilities — to offer just a few examples — it becomes difficult to hear the cry of nature itself; everything is connected.”

“Once the human being declares independence from reality and behaves with absolute dominion, the very foundations of our life begin to crumble, for ‘instead of carrying out his role as a cooperator with God in the work of creation, man sets himself up in place of God and thus ends up provoking a rebellion on the part of nature.’”



I'm hoping that the Church as well as our political leaders, will quickly settle the issue of allowing for procedures when there is a miscarriage and ectopic pregnancies. In a rush to legislate after the overturning of Roe v Wade. it appears that little thought or knowledge is being considered.


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