Oz/Fetterman debate
jeffl said:
Ugh. This seems like a slam dunk for Oz. Just minutes in.
I'm not watching. What's the main issue? Is Fetterman unprepared?
I couldn’t watch any more His delivery is very much affected by his stroke Very halting Stammering Not very articulate And Oz is Oz he lives for this kind of format
yahooyahoo said:
jeffl said:
Ugh. This seems like a slam dunk for Oz. Just minutes in.
I'm not watching. What's the main issue? Is Fetterman unprepared?
I feel bad for that man. Like Biden, he really has no business in public office at this point.
terp said:
I feel bad for that man. Like Biden, he really has no business in public office at this point.
Fetterman will likely recover - certainly enough to be a Senator.
I’m thinking this should be in politics.
I’m also thinking that terp is the type of troll that would make people just want to vote blue, no matter who.
It was difficult watching Fetterman struggling with the format, 30-60-90 seconds to read and respond was very stressful for anyone recovering from a stroke. His handlers should not have allowed him to debate.
Fetterman will recover but Oz will still be a slick snake oil salesman. I wonder when Oz was practicing medicine, was it his practice to bring local politicians into the exam room to participate in medical decision making when other questions were being decided, such as whether to place a cardiac stent? Because it seems as though his message to young women is, find a nice guy, get married, and ask your local politicians for advice on how to plan your family…sleazy
terp said:
I feel bad for that man. Like Biden, he really has no business in public office at this point.
Aphasia is loss of language, not intellect.
drummerboy said:
Fetterman will likely recover - certainly enough to be a Senator.
Exactly.
I'd rather vote for a guy who is working to overcome a challenge than a slick salesman from another state.
I was and still am for Fetterman and against Oz. However, Fetterman's performance was shockingly poor, and I was very unprepared for how severely the stroke had impacted it, and how far from recovery he remains. I believe that his campaign should not have agreed to a debate, and has been disingenuous about the extent of his recovery. I'm afraid that any undecided voter will now switch to Oz and Fetterman will lose, along with American democracy.
Jaytee said:
Fetterman will recover but Oz will still be a slick snake oil salesman.
Oz is a conman and has no morals. I would vote for a sack of potatos over Oz if I lived in Pennsylvania.
Unfortunately, it sounds like the debate was a disater for Fetterman. It may have sealed his fate.
Debating seemed like a bad idea for Fetterman. That said, I don't understand the mindset of a voter who supports basic human rights like marriage equality and reproductive healthcare saying, "well, this one guy with the stroke really is aligned with me on everything I care about and will vote for policies (and to confirm Supreme Court justices) that I agree with, while the other guy is diametrically opposed to everything I believe in AND supported by Trump, but he speaks better right now, so I guess I'll go with him."
yahooyahoo said:
Oz is a conman and has no morals. I would vote for a sack of potatos over Oz if I lived in Pennsylvania.
Unfortunately, it sounds like the debate was a disater for Fetterman. It may have sealed his fate.
If Oz is able to run from NJ for the PA seat, then maybe people in NJ should be allowed to vote on the PA seat as well...
As someone who dealt with/is dealing with a similar kind of injury to the brain, I concur with drummerboy and nohero. Aphasia deters speech and information processing from a sort of "mechanical" standpoint rather than because of an intellectual deficit. I fear that even educated people will not grasp that distinction and the trash talkers will win.
So, what if Fetterman is burdened with aphasia. Mentally he's head and shoulders better than many of the Republican wackjobs.
from above: "Oz will still be a slick snake oil salesman"
edit: "Oz will still be a slick Trumpist, damn-the-constitution snake oil salesman"
Very sorry to hear about this event. Doesn't seem as though instant/rapid reply and sparring should be such a big factor in being a senator, but as others have said, the "look" isn't right and that's a large part of the debate thing. 
who knows? I have to believe Fetterman 's stroke and recovery are already baked into people's voting intentions. Last night may or may not change anything.
ml1 said:
who knows? I have to believe Fetterman 's stroke and recovery are already baked into people's voting intentions. Last night may or may not change anything.
yeah, the fact is that those people who haven't made up their minds yet surely are not paying any attention to the debate.
The answer to this question may show with the next poll numbers. If Fetterman stays steady or his numbers increase, it will suggest that the debate either did not change many opinions or actually increased people's positive feelings of support for Fetterman and antipathy for Oz. However, if the polls significantly go South, then I would interpret that as a negative reaction from undecideds to Fetterman's debate difficulties.
drummerboy said:
yeah, the fact is that those people who haven't made up their minds yet surely are not paying any attention to the debate.
Jasmo said:
The answer to this question may show with the next poll numbers. If Fetterman stays steady or his numbers increase, it will suggest that the debate either did not change many opinions or actually increased people's positive feelings of support for Fetterman and antipathy for Oz. However, if the polls significantly go South, then I would interpret that as a negative reaction from undecideds to Fetterman's debate difficulties.
drummerboy said:
yeah, the fact is that those people who haven't made up their minds yet surely are not paying any attention to the debate.
The initial polling data is not encouraging for Fetterman. According to this poll, the race is a statistical dead heat.
Americans love tv personalities. They can sell cow manure in a fancy package at a fancy price and people will buy it. If we can just toss someone aside because they don’t have the gift of gab and other assorted bullsiht lyrics, then we deserve people like trumpenstein and Oz.
I am trying to stay positive, and I think Fetterman will scrape by and win this thing.
I was so moved by Fetterman's performance, (I was already a fan) that I sent out my first political donation, I went to his page and found his new ad against Oz's comment about abortion, asking for donations and I posted, "Donated, and I'm from NJ. Please don't blame us for Oz and keep going."
If I lived in PA, I would not only vote for him, I would campaign for him,
Morganna said:
I was so moved by Fetterman's performance, (I was already a fan) that I sent out my first political donation, I went to his page and found his new ad against Oz's comment about abortion, asking for donations and I posted, "Donated, and I'm from NJ. Please don't blame us for Oz and keep going."
If I lived in PA, I would not only vote for him, I would campaign for him,
Morganna, you can still campaign for him. Putting aside going down to PA (I did that in 2016) there is phone banking. I spent an entire week making phone calls regarding the Georgia Senate election in 2020. If I wasn't campaigning for a NJ Congressman - Tom Malinowski - not in my district, I'd probably be phone banking for the elections in PA, Nevada and Arizona. Check out Mobilize and go forth and volunteer. It's fun!
Contrasting post-debate polls suggest a very tight race, with Oz leading slightly in the Emerson College and The Hill poll (quoted below), but with others showing that Fetterman maintaining his lead.
https://www.inquirer.com/politics/election/senate-debate-pennsylvania-oz-fetterman-20221102.html
From the Philadelphia Inquirer:
"For all the attention last week’s debate between John Fetterman and Mehmet Oz received, the race appears virtually unchanged — and extremely close — in its aftermath. Separate polls from the Monmouth University Polling Institute, Muhlenberg College, and Suffolk University/USA TODAY Network released this week indicate the race is essentially tied with six days to go. The Monmouth poll released Wednesday found 48% of voters will either definitely or probably vote for Fetterman, compared with 44% who said they would definitely or probably back Oz. That’s well within the poll’s 4.5-point margin of error, meaning the poll shows the race is essentially tied. In the Muhlenberg poll released Tuesday, 47% of likely voters said they were voting for Fetterman, and 47% said they were voting for Oz. Three percent said they would vote for a third-party candidate, and 2% were unsure. However, the poll had a significant margin of error: 6 percentage points. (In September, Fetterman led in Muhlenberg’s poll by 5 points. That poll also had a 6-point margin of error). Suffolk had Fetterman with a slim two percentage point lead over Oz (47% to 45%) in a poll with a 4-point margin of error. Fetterman’s lead in Suffolk’s poll shrunk from a 6-point advantage in September to 2 points this week. Oz gained 5 points since September. The polling is some of the first conducted since the Oct. 25 debate between Oz and Fetterman in which Fetterman, who is recovering from a stroke, often struggled to articulate his points and stumbled over words. His showing prompted Democrats to question whether he should have participated and worry about what it might mean in an already tight race.
From The Hill.com today:
"Pennsylvania Republican Senate candidate Mehmet Oz is narrowly leading his Democratic opponent, John Fetterman, in a new survey from Emerson College Polling and The Hill conducted after last week’s highly watched debate. The poll, released Thursday, finds Oz leading Fetterman 48 percent to 46 percent among very likely voters, well within the survey’s 3-point margin of error. Four percent said they were undecided. The poll marks a steady improvement for Oz, whose support has increased by 5 points since September. Fetterman’s support has only ticked up by 1 point.
A Flourish chart"Additionally, 54 percent of Pennsylvania voters said they expected Oz to win the election, while 47 percent said the same about Fetterman. Previous surveys from Emerson College Polling and The Hill have seen Fetterman consistently leading Oz. But the latest data comes just over one week after Fetterman came face-to-face with Oz in Pennsylvania’s first and only Senate debate this cycle, during which the Democrat had a rocky performance as a result of his ongoing recovery from a stroke he suffered in May. Oz, on the other hand, appeared in his element due to his experience in television, something Fetterman’s campaign acknowledged going into the debate. Fifty percent of voters said the debate worsened their opinion of Fetterman, while 20 percent said it improved their opinion of him. Another 31 percent said it made no difference. Forty-four percent of voters said the debate improved their opinion of Oz, while 25 percent said it worsened their opinion of the Republican candidate. Thirty percent said it made no difference in their opinion of him.
yahooyahoo said:
The initial polling data is not encouraging for Fetterman. According to this poll, the race is a statistical dead heat.
Oz is Muslim right? He’s republican so he’s a good Muslim right? A Muslim who’s a democrat is told to go back to where they came from…. Labeled as terrorists by their fellow republican members of Congress. It’s all good eh…
Jaytee said:
Oz is Muslim right? He’s republican so he’s a good Muslim right? A Muslim who’s a democrat is told to go back to where they came from…. Labeled as terrorists by their fellow republican members of Congress. It’s all good eh…
Non-practicing. I think he called himself a Secular Muslim.
And why Fetterman called Oz out for drinking wine at a tailgate, I think ("who drinks wine at a tailgate?" -Fetterman implying beer is fit and proper tailgate quaff). Will Muslim votes go to Fetterman now? Here's hoping.
dave said:
And why Fetterman called Oz out for drinking wine at a tailgate, I think ("who drinks wine at a tailgate?" -Fetterman implying beer is fit and proper tailgate quaff). Will Muslim votes go to Fetterman now? Here's hoping.
Ah, beer and jawn’s all good.
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Ugh. This seems like a slam dunk for Oz. Just minutes in.