Measles vaccine - non-mainstream perspective needed

Looking for guidance from Terp on the measles vaccine.  The mainstream media is saying all should be vaccinated.  

‘Not a disease you want to relive’: why is the US seeing outbreaks of measles? (yahoo.com) 

tjohn said:

Looking for guidance from Terp on the measles vaccine.  The mainstream media is saying all should be vaccinated.  

‘Not a disease you want to relive’: why is the US seeing outbreaks of measles? (yahoo.com) 

nothing about the vaccine from me. But I only recently learned measles is one of the, if not THE most contagious disease known to human kind. 

Apparently you can contract it from someone who left a room 10 minutes before you entered. 

ml1 said:

tjohn said:

Looking for guidance from Terp on the measles vaccine.  The mainstream media is saying all should be vaccinated.  

‘Not a disease you want to relive’: why is the US seeing outbreaks of measles? (yahoo.com) 

nothing about the vaccine from me. But I only recently learned measles is one of the, if not THE most contagious disease known to human kind. 

Apparently you can contract it from someone who left a room 10 minutes before you entered. 

Yes, I have heard that too.  We are so lucky that Covid wasn't as contagious as measles.

tjohn said:

Looking for guidance from Terp on the measles vaccine.  The mainstream media is saying all should be vaccinated.  

‘Not a disease you want to relive’: why is the US seeing outbreaks of measles? (yahoo.com) 

If you're concerned about contracting the Measles you should get vaccinated. 

terp said:

tjohn said:

Looking for guidance from Terp on the measles vaccine.  The mainstream media is saying all should be vaccinated.  

‘Not a disease you want to relive’: why is the US seeing outbreaks of measles? (yahoo.com) 

If you're concerned about contracting the Measles you should get vaccinated. 

Sounds like you're vaccinated.

terp said:

tjohn said:

Looking for guidance from Terp on the measles vaccine.  The mainstream media is saying all should be vaccinated.  

‘Not a disease you want to relive’: why is the US seeing outbreaks of measles? (yahoo.com) 

If you're concerned about contracting the Measles you should get vaccinated. 

Should I feel any concern for my neighbor's child who can't get vaccinated due to an auto-immune disorder?

tjohn said:

Should I feel any concern for my neighbor's child who can't get vaccinated due to an auto-immune disorder?

or anyone with an autoimmune disorder, or anyone in the 1% for whom the MMR vaccine doesn't provide protection?

ml1 said:

tjohn said:

Should I feel any concern for my neighbor's child who can't get vaccinated due to an auto-immune disorder?

or anyone with an autoimmune disorder, or anyone in the 1% for whom the MMR vaccine doesn't provide protection?

Any of those.  I am just looking for guidance from Terp as to whether or not I should give a **** about anybody else when it comes to the concept of herd immunity through mandatory vaccination.

tjohn said:

Any of those.  I am just looking for guidance from Terp as to whether or not I should give a **** about anybody else when it comes to the concept of herd immunity through mandatory vaccination.

Give a **** about anyone else? What part of “libertarian” don’t you understand?

tjohn said:

ml1 said:

tjohn said:

Should I feel any concern for my neighbor's child who can't get vaccinated due to an auto-immune disorder?

or anyone with an autoimmune disorder, or anyone in the 1% for whom the MMR vaccine doesn't provide protection?

Any of those.  I am just looking for guidance from Terp as to whether or not I should give a **** about anybody else when it comes to the concept of herd immunity through mandatory vaccination.

there's a self-interested reason for supporting mandatory vaccinations too. It's not 100% that every one of us will have immunity against the disease we were vaccinated for. But herd immunity ensures an individual won't get sick even if the vaccine wasn't effective for them.

of course herd immunity also gives people the sense of security that they can opt themselves or their kids out of vaccinations and not have to pay the price by getting sick. They should be thanking all the sheeple who make their stands for "freedom" virtually consequence free.

Did the Queensland Supreme Court ruling on vaccination mandates make the news over there? Earlier this week, late last week. 
During the pandemic, State government ruled that emergency workers needed to be vaccinated in order to work their shifts, or be placed on (unpaid?) leave/stood down as they were endangering colleagues, strangers/rescues etc. Workers and Unions chucked a fit, protested the blanket nature of the mandate then sued, and appealed.

Ruling:  vaccination mandates such as those during the pandemic breeched human rights.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-28/covid19-vaccine-frontline-worker-mandate-supreme-court-ruling/103517798

Good luck trying to handle the measles and whooping cough outbreaks we have here now.

I wonder how long any vaccine mandates, like for attending school, will remain legal here.

drummerboy said:

I wonder how long any vaccine mandates, like for attending school, will remain legal here.

A few years ago I would have thought forever because it was settled in the Supreme Court about a hundred years ago. But with the current court, it would be surprising if they did NOT strike down vaccine mandates. All it will take is someone with standing to sue. And then all bets are off with the Roberts court. 

nothing is settled anymore

Except the moon landing.... oh wait.

I was suspicious but now I realize this thread is a witch hunt.  I believe in personal sovereignty.  

TJohn,  I know its difficult to understand given how much you like the taste of boot leather, but there really are people out there who have a backbone.  

terp said:

I was suspicious but now I realize this thread is a witch hunt.  I believe in personal sovereignty.  

TJohn,  I know its difficult to understand given how much you like the taste of boot leather, but there really are people out there who have a backbone.  

No, I just happen to believe that for some diseases, mandatory vaccination is the right policy.

This is written in stone so to speak.

terp said:

I was suspicious but now I realize this thread is a witch hunt.  I believe in personal sovereignty.  

TJohn,  I know its difficult to understand given how much you like the taste of boot leather, but there really are people out there who have a backbone.  

if only life in a civil society that requires cooperation were so simple.

terp said:

I was suspicious but now I realize this thread is a witch hunt.  I believe in personal sovereignty.  

TJohn,  I know its difficult to understand given how much you like the taste of boot leather, but there really are people out there who have a backbone.  

That's simply the wrong framework for a discussion of the vaccinations which are the topic of this thread.

terp, whaddaya think?

good public health policy?

silly me, you don't think there should be a public health policy.

terp said:

I was suspicious but now I realize this thread is a witch hunt. I believe in personal sovereignty.

Since clothing (presuming you choose to wear it) will cover your telltale backbone, is there another way you can publicly identify yourself as a sovereign person so I, wanting to respect your border, can keep my distance?

terp said:

I was suspicious but now I realize this thread is a witch hunt.  I believe in personal sovereignty.  

TJohn,  I know its difficult to understand given how much you like the taste of boot leather, but there really are people out there who have a backbone.  

you might want to come up with another epithet besides "boot licker." You're becoming predictable. And boring. 

The previous generation in our country decided not to fight for their "personal sovereignty" and complied with mandatory MMR vaccinations. As a result measles was declared eliminated in the U.S. in 2000. 

Since then people in our country have decided to stand up for their personal sovereignty and refuse to vaccinate, and now measles occasionally reappears in outbreaks in areas of the U.S. with low vaccination rates. 

I'll just leave that here with no editorial comment. It just is what it is. 

For terp, a thing i used to tell my kid:  If you always disagree with authority, you're controlled by authority's choices just as much as if you never disagree with authority.  Pick your battles and use your head, someday "authority" might have a good idea. In general, imo, vaccines and mass immunity are (is?) clearly one of those good ideas.

Leaving aside instances of total resistance...  I truly believe that most of present-day vaccine resistance is due to people simply not remembering, or being too young to remember, what it was like before polio, smallpox, the "childhood diseases" etc. came more or less under control.  The cemetery graphic above is a reminder.

If you want to be bored by "back in the day," i'll talk about always trying to sit comfortably in kindergarten, just in case i was paralyzed by polio at any given moment (kid's eye view).  Or about the brochure my mom was given when my sister was born (1934), about home care for a long long list of diseases we pretty much never think of anymore.  Mostly, it recommended plenty of water, soft lighting, sponge baths, keep the other kids away, wash your hands, and hope for the best.  Is this what people want to trade for?

Is Florida prepared for greater numbers of vision impaired citizens as a result of measles and rubella affected citizens?? Let alone other issues?
Try working with/caring for people with post-polio syndrome. Yep, a very real condition that hits adults 20-30 years at most after their polio episode. And it’s lifelong, and manifests uniquely for each person. [stole my aunt’s classical piano concert career, her fingers were so twisted. Also left her with club feet, and stunted growth. Other people I’ve known have shortened limbs, impaired senses, impaired breathing on minimal exertion, twisted muscles, twisted spines, various body bits amputated, cardiac disease etc…]
Post-polio is easily prevented but if you’re not going to vaccinated for measles you’re definitely not going to vaccinate for polio.

Measles: A Dangerous Illness, by Roald Dahl

Olivia, my eldest daughter, caught measles when she was seven years old. As the illness took its usual course I can remember reading to her often in bed and not feeling particularly alarmed about it. Then one morning, when she was well on the road to recovery, I was sitting on her bed showing her how to fashion little animals out of coloured pipe-cleaners, and when it came to her turn to make one herself, I noticed that her fingers and her mind were not working together and she couldn't do anything.

“Are you feeling all right?” I asked her.

“I feel all sleepy,” she said.

In an hour, she was unconscious. In twelve hours she was dead.

The measles had turned into a terrible thing called measles encephalitis and there was nothing the doctors could do to save her. That was twenty-four [sic] years ago in 1962, but even now, if a child with measles happens to develop the same deadly reaction from measles as Olivia did, there would still be nothing the doctors could do to help her.

On the other hand, there is today something that parents can do to make sure that this sort of tragedy does not happen to a child of theirs. They can insist that their child is immunised against measles. I was unable to do that for Olivia in 1962 because in those days a reliable measles vaccine had not been discovered. Today a good and safe vaccine is available to every family and all you have to do is to ask your doctor to administer it.

It is not yet generally accepted that measles can be a dangerous illness. Believe me, it is. In my opinion parents who now refuse to have their children immunised are putting the lives of those children at risk. In America, where measles immunisation is compulsory, measles like smallpox, has been virtually wiped out.

Here in Britain, because so many parents refuse, either out of obstinacy or ignorance or fear, to allow their children to be immunised, we still have a hundred thousand cases of measles every year. Out of those, more than 10,000 will suffer side effects of one kind or another. At least 10,000 will develop ear or chest infections. About 20 will die.

LET THAT SINK IN.

Every year around 20 children will die in Britain from measles.

So what about the risks that your children will run from being immunised?

They are almost non-existent. Listen to this. In a district of around 300,000 people, there will be only one child every 250 years who will develop serious side effects from measles immunisation! That is about a million to one chance. I should think there would be more chance of your child choking to death on a chocolate bar than of becoming seriously ill from a measles immunisation. So what on earth are you worrying about? It really is almost a crime to allow your child to go unimmunised.

The ideal time to have it done is at 13 months, but it is never too late. All school-children who have not yet had a measles immunisation should beg their parents to arrange for them to have one as soon as possible.

Incidentally, I dedicated two of my books to Olivia, the first was James and the Giant Peach. That was when she was still alive. The second was The BFG, dedicated to her memory after she had died from measles. You will see her name at the beginning of each of these books. And I know how happy she would be if only she could know that her death had helped to save a good deal of illness and death among other children.

Every child in school here must have the vaccine to be allowed in school, It’s mandatory. Isn’t it mandatory in Florida? 

terp said:

tjohn said:

Looking for guidance from Terp on the measles vaccine.  The mainstream media is saying all should be vaccinated.  

‘Not a disease you want to relive’: why is the US seeing outbreaks of measles? (yahoo.com) 

If you're concerned about contracting the Measles you should get vaccinated. 

I think everyone is being unfair to terp here. Since pathogens don't give a sh* about anyone's politics or spine, everyone should be concerned about contracting measles. So terp is quite clearly saying everyone should get vaccinated.

PVW said:

terp said:

tjohn said:

Looking for guidance from Terp on the measles vaccine.  The mainstream media is saying all should be vaccinated.  

‘Not a disease you want to relive’: why is the US seeing outbreaks of measles? (yahoo.com) 

If you're concerned about contracting the Measles you should get vaccinated. 

I think everyone is being unfair to terp here. Since pathogens don't give a sh* about anyone's politics or spine, everyone should be concerned about contracting measles. So terp is quite clearly saying everyone should get vaccinated.

but should everyone be required to?

It would be wonderful if everyone would be vaccinated. But of course not everyone will make that choice without a mandate. 

What about the migrants? How do we know who’s vaccinated? All these people coming across the border who slip through without being processed, maybe that’s why we’re seeing an uptick in contagious diseases. This whole migration issue is a can of worms.