Jobs, Jobs, Jobs....

terp said:

Perhaps.  Though, I wonder how true that is.  I think its more accurate to say they are dying slowly, but you could certainly make that case. 

AFAICT, they are amplifying the political tribalism.  Which I think is not helping this particular situation.

 Well, no, they aren't. But they are corporations and they don't exist to help.


we're in the middle of a pandemic and people are making threats against store employees who ask them to put on a face covering, we've got armed protesters showing up at state capitols, people calling the reaction to the pandemic a hoax and an attack on "freedom."  Yes, one might have thought we'd come together at this time, but any tribalism now is being driven almost entirely by extreme right wingers.  The liberals and the moderates, the Democrats, Independents and even most Republicans and conservatives are pulling together.  Surveys are showing that a strong majority of Americans are in favor of doing what we need to do to keep our health care system from being overwhelmed.  And a majority of Republicans also are in favor of those measures.  It's a fringe who won't "come together", and don't want to.  


terp said:

You mean like these guys?

 Anyone who decides that they're more important than respecting the protection of the health of others.  As noted in the article:

The Police Department has assigned hundreds of officers to enforce social-distancing rules, responding to calls of overcrowding at stores, parks, and other gathering spaces. Officers have made 11 arrests and issued 134 summonses to people accused of violating emergency rules, according to the department’s daily enforcement reports.

Almost half of the summonses issued and two of the arrests made stemmed from a birthday party at a barbershop attended by nearly 60 people in Brooklyn. The police also broke up a speakeasy in Brooklyn and a marijuana party in Manhattan.

As Governor Murphy says here in New Jersey, "Knuckleheads".


nohero said:

terp said:

You mean like these guys?

 Anyone who decides that they're more important than respecting the protection of the health of others.  As noted in the article:

The Police Department has assigned hundreds of officers to enforce social-distancing rules, responding to calls of overcrowding at stores, parks, and other gathering spaces. Officers have made 11 arrests and issued 134 summonses to people accused of violating emergency rules, according to the department’s daily enforcement reports.

Almost half of the summonses issued and two of the arrests made stemmed from a birthday party at a barbershop attended by nearly 60 people in Brooklyn. The police also broke up a speakeasy in Brooklyn and a marijuana party in Manhattan.

As Governor Murphy says here in New Jersey, "Knuckleheads".

 How many were armed right wingers?


ml1 said:

we're in the middle of a pandemic and people are making threats against store employees who ask them to put on a face covering, we've got armed protesters showing up at state capitols, people calling the reaction to the pandemic a hoax and an attack on "freedom."  Yes, one might have thought we'd come together at this time, but any tribalism now is being driven almost entirely by extreme right wingers.  The liberals and the moderates, the Democrats, Independents and even most Republicans and conservatives are pulling together.  Surveys are showing that a strong majority of Americans are in favor of doing what we need to do to keep our health care system from being overwhelmed.  And a majority of Republicans also are in favor of those measures.  It's a fringe who won't "come together", and don't want to.  

I guess my point is that this post contradicts itself by its very existence. 


terp said:

nohero said:

terp said:

You mean like these guys?

 Anyone who decides that they're more important than respecting the protection of the health of others.  As noted in the article:

The Police Department has assigned hundreds of officers to enforce social-distancing rules, responding to calls of overcrowding at stores, parks, and other gathering spaces. Officers have made 11 arrests and issued 134 summonses to people accused of violating emergency rules, according to the department’s daily enforcement reports.

Almost half of the summonses issued and two of the arrests made stemmed from a birthday party at a barbershop attended by nearly 60 people in Brooklyn. The police also broke up a speakeasy in Brooklyn and a marijuana party in Manhattan.

As Governor Murphy says here in New Jersey, "Knuckleheads".

 How many were armed right wingers?

 Armed right wingers are usually strutting windbags, with some tragic exceptions.  But you don't have to be packing heat to be a covid-19 knucklehead.


What's the word in Massachusetts for "knucklehead"?  


nohero said:

What's the word in Massachusetts for "knucklehead"?  

 Was there gun play?


terp said:

nohero said:

What's the word in Massachusetts for "knucklehead"?  

 Was there gun play?

Not that I know of.  Just herd stupidity.


nohero said:

terp said:

nohero said:

What's the word in Massachusetts for "knucklehead"?  

 Was there gun play?

Not that I know of.  Just herd stupidity.

 Yep.  All the hostility and stupidity is coming from the right wing extremists all right. 


terp said:

 Yep.  All the hostility and stupidity is coming from the right wing extremists all right. 

 Based on photos of the protest, I see a few Gadsen flags, a few MAGA flags and at least one 3 Percenter flag in that group. Also, one of the organizers was Super Happy Fun America, the people who brought us the Boston Straight Pride Parade. https://www.superhappyfunamerica.com/

I mean, if they all want to gather in a public square without masks and yell and fling spittle around that's their choice. But if I pick up a can of tuna one of these asshats handled while I'm grocery shopping then their stupidity affects me, and as we know you have every right to swing your fist until it reaches my face.


ridski said:

terp said:

 Yep.  All the hostility and stupidity is coming from the right wing extremists all right. 

 Based on photos of the protest, I see a few Gadsen flags, a few MAGA flags and at least one 3 Percenter flag in that group. Also, one of the organizers was Super Happy Fun America, the people who brought us the Boston Straight Pride Parade. https://www.superhappyfunamerica.com/

All very fine people. 


terp said:

 Yep.  All the hostility and stupidity is coming from the right wing extremists all right. 

 I'm glad that you and Mr. Ridski found something to agree on.


“... we’ve got armed protesters showing up at state capitols ...”

Accurate statement.


DaveSchmidt said:

“... we’ve got armed protesters showing up at state capitols ...”

Accurate statement.

 I agree.  But, its Interesting that you could not quote the entire post.  


terp said:

 I agree.  But, its Interesting that you could not quote the entire post.  

There was no need to. Everyone can read it. I chose to affirm an excerpt.


it's what I get for not qualifying every assertion as "mostly" or "mainly."  Because as soon as someone can find an exception, they can throw out the argument entirely.

But the surveys on this issue do in fact show that roughly 80% of Americans are pulling together during the pandemic.  And the majority (but not all) of the people stridently objecting are MAGA types.


ridski said:

terp said:

 Yep.  All the hostility and stupidity is coming from the right wing extremists all right. 

 Based on photos of the protest, I see a few Gadsen flags, a few MAGA flags and at least one 3 Percenter flag in that group. Also, one of the organizers was Super Happy Fun America, the people who brought us the Boston Straight Pride Parade. https://www.superhappyfunamerica.com/

I mean, if they all want to gather in a public square without masks and yell and fling spittle around that's their choice. But if I pick up a can of tuna one of these asshats handled while I'm grocery shopping then their stupidity affects me, and as we know you have every right to swing your fist until it reaches my face.

 You don't have to like these people.  I don't really know much about the protesters, but how long do you think we can keep the shelter in place up?  There are costs to this course of action.  People are going to be hurting economically.  The more time goes on w/ these Shelter in Place rules, the more people you are going to see ignore/rebel/protest them. 

It's not just right wingers. That is IMO a very divisive stand to take.  And it's not true.  Are the speakeasies in NYC all run by armed right wingers?  Do you have the same hostility to these establishments and all their patrons?  I know you probably like them more than the guys flying the Gadsen flag, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.  


terp said:

 I agree.  But, its Interesting that you could not quote the entire post.  

 Point being that there are armed protesters showing up at state capitals. There are also other people throwing weddings and birthday parties and hanging out at beaches in what I would presume is not a political protest, but just blind selfishness. So I’m not entirely sure what point you’re trying to make about political divisiveness by bringing partygoers into the conversation.


terp said:

DaveSchmidt said:

“... we’ve got armed protesters showing up at state capitols ...”

Accurate statement.

 I agree.  But, its Interesting that you could not quote the entire post.  

 The entire post wasn't just about protesters with guns.  It was also about protesters who don't add guns to the list of things that are annoying about them.


terp said:

 You don't have to like these people.  I don't really know much about the protesters, but how long do you think we can keep the shelter in place up?  There are costs to this course of action.  People are going to be hurting economically.  The more time goes on w/ these Shelter in Place rules, the more people you are going to see ignore/rebel/protest them. 

The fact that people ignore/rebel/protest is not an argument against doing what's necessary.


ridski said:

terp said:

 I agree.  But, its Interesting that you could not quote the entire post.  

 Point being that there are armed protesters showing up at state capitals. There are also other people throwing weddings and birthday parties and hanging out at beaches in what I would presume is not a political protest, but just blind selfishness. So I’m not entirely sure what point you’re trying to make about political divisiveness by bringing partygoers into the conversation.

 The point I'm trying to make is that ml1 made a post saying that there is not tribalism in this county.  It's just those people on the other side of the political aisle that are causing all the tribalism!  I'm sure if we kept going it would be:  Oh ya and the president!  And the republicans in Congress!  And the libertarians!  

I mean this whole thing got started because I made the point that the government went into this in a haphazard way and they didn't really have a way out.  And you all jumped on me saying that I would have no ideas.  How uniting. 

I may be a total hypocrite, but I've got nothing on you.
 


ml1 said:

it's what I get for not qualifying every assertion as "mostly" or "mainly."  Because as soon as someone can find an exception, they can throw out the argument entirely.

 I don't think that's a fair statement.  In my observation, only people who are a special kind of a**hole do that.  


Red_Barchetta said:

ml1 said:

it's what I get for not qualifying every assertion as "mostly" or "mainly."  Because as soon as someone can find an exception, they can throw out the argument entirely.

 I don't think that's a fair statement.  In my observation, only people who are a special kind of a**hole do that.  

 That wasn't very nice. 


terp said:

 I mean this whole thing got started because I made the point that the government went into this in a haphazard way and they didn't really have a way out.  And you all jumped on me saying that I would have no ideas.  How uniting. 

 Can you point me to the post I made jumping on you for having no ideas? I’d like to see that, thanks.


terp said:

 The point I'm trying to make is that ml1 made a post saying that there is not tribalism in this county.  It's just those people on the other side of the political aisle that are causing all the tribalism!  I'm sure if we kept going it would be:  Oh ya and the president!  And the republicans in Congress!  And the libertarians!  

I mean this whole thing got started because I made the point that the government went into this in a haphazard way and they didn't really have a way out.  And you all jumped on me saying that I would have no ideas.  How uniting. 

I may be a total hypocrite, but I've got nothing on you.
 

 I thought it was clear I meant there isn't a tribal reaction to the pandemic.  And there isn't one, in the typical left-right, Democratic-Republican sense.  Overall, almost all Americans agree that the pandemic is something to be concerned about, and the vast majority are in favor of the social distancing rules.  And an overwhelming majority don't believe it's time yet to to "open up" the country.  The crazy people yelling and protesting, and the people headed to the beaches or weddings or church services truly are an extremist fringe, however you want to describe them.  

I stated flat out in my first post that I wasn't making this about Republicans in Congress or otherwise, because most Republicans are being as sensible as everyone else.  We're pretty united on the pandemic across party lines, with a fringe being the exception.

I'm not sure how my larger point went sideways except to say it was probably bad writing on my part.  I know what I meant, and it certainly wasn't the way you interpreted it.


terp said:

 You don't have to like these people.  I don't really know much about the protesters, but how long do you think we can keep the shelter in place up?  There are costs to this course of action.  People are going to be hurting economically.  The more time goes on w/ these Shelter in Place rules, the more people you are going to see ignore/rebel/protest them. 

It's not just right wingers. That is IMO a very divisive stand to take.  And it's not true.  Are the speakeasies in NYC all run by armed right wingers?  Do you have the same hostility to these establishments and all their patrons?  I know you probably like them more than the guys flying the Gadsen flag, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.  

Not sure. 

 No.

Yes.

Obviously.


ridski said:

 Point being that there are armed protesters showing up at state capitals. There are also other people throwing weddings and birthday parties and hanging out at beaches in what I would presume is not a political protest, but just blind selfishness. So I’m not entirely sure what point you’re trying to make about political divisiveness by bringing partygoers into the conversation.

 I don't think there's anything "tribal" about people being selfish and throwing parties or going to the beach.  It seems to me that they're doing this in private, and they aren't out demanding the states put an end to the stay at home rules. The people who are out demanding that they don't want to wear masks, or who are protesting that their states need to "open up" are a different thing entirely.  They're not just breaking the rules, they are loudly demanding that the rules be suspended.


ridski said:

basil said:

drummerboy said:

there's no "solution" but there are certainly ways of easing the pain, and for easing the transition to opening the economy up again.

We're not doing much of either. Consequently some people are panicking about locking down. And some governors are easing mitigation too soon.

What would the libertarian approach to this be?

Libertarians are very good in criticizing others. Less so in running actual things.

 Can't run something if it doesn't exist.

 


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