Is Pelosi really planning to visit Taiwan

Is there some reason why she is considering a visit to Taiwan?  I can't see any good coming out of it.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/biden-pelosi-trip-taiwan-military-223128948.html


Can anybody explain why it is a good idea for Pelosi to visit Taiwan?  Foreign policy is best left to the Executive Branch even if they mess it up from time to time.


Wow, tjohn, we actually agree on something! I think this Nancy Pelosi trip is a very bad idea and may start WWIII, as if Ukraine were not bad enough.



LOL Garland - I remember him from the RT days - what is he doing now?

I think in nan's mind - EVERYTHING is going to start WWIII.

And probably the war putin started isn't even a war - right?  LOL  Who's to say HE didn't trigger WWIII?


jamie said:

LOL Garland - I remember him from the RT days - what is he doing now?

I think in nan's mind - EVERYTHING is going to start WWIII.

And probably the war putin started isn't even a war - right?  LOL  Who's to say HE didn't trigger WWIII?

Even tjohn sees the danger in this visit. You might take it more seriously.  

Garland is doing fine and still has the same opinions despite not working for RT. 

Yes, almost everything about our foreign policy--going for regime change in Russia and China is going to start WWIII.   Again, you don't see the problems here in agitating Russia and China.  It's not going to end well for us. 


nan said:

Even tjohn sees the danger in this visit. You might take it more seriously.  

yeah, but I don't think he's worried about WW III.

As far as I can tell, the only person supporting this trip is Pelosi.


drummerboy said:

nan said:

Even tjohn sees the danger in this visit. You might take it more seriously.  

yeah, but I don't think he's worried about WW III.

As far as I can tell, the only person supporting this trip is Pelosi.

I don't know how concerned I am about WW III as in an all out nuclear war, but if there is any sort of shooting war between the United States and China, the global shocks will be profound. 


drummerboy said:

nan said:

Even tjohn sees the danger in this visit. You might take it more seriously.  

yeah, but I don't think he's worried about WW III.

As far as I can tell, the only person supporting this trip is Pelosi.

Yeah, that excuse is not going to fly over in China.  They know how things are really done.  They know what this visit means and it's not benign.  

They may not even let the plane land. 


nan said:

drummerboy said:

nan said:

Even tjohn sees the danger in this visit. You might take it more seriously.  

yeah, but I don't think he's worried about WW III.

As far as I can tell, the only person supporting this trip is Pelosi.

Yeah, that excuse is not going to fly over in China.  They know how things are really done.  They know what this visit means and it's not benign.  

They may not even let the plane land. 

Nah.  China isn't going to get into a shooting was over Pelosi especially when Biden has more or less publicly said he thinks the trip is a bad idea.


I bet that she goes and comes back - and that's about it.  WWIII will not start because of this trip.


jamie said:

I bet that she goes and comes back - and that's about it.  WWIII will not start because of this trip.

The Chinese seem to view this trip as tantamount to war--war between the US and China.  They don't fool around.

Pelosi going on this trip is nuts. 


tjohn said:

nan said:

drummerboy said:

nan said:

Even tjohn sees the danger in this visit. You might take it more seriously.  

yeah, but I don't think he's worried about WW III.

As far as I can tell, the only person supporting this trip is Pelosi.

Yeah, that excuse is not going to fly over in China.  They know how things are really done.  They know what this visit means and it's not benign.  

They may not even let the plane land. 

Nah.  China isn't going to get into a shooting was over Pelosi especially when Biden has more or less publicly said he thinks the trip is a bad idea.

You think Pelosi would go on this trip if Biden told her not to?   Yeah, that's not how it works. 


nan said:

You think Pelosi would go on this trip if Biden told her not to?   Yeah, that's not how it works. 

How does it work?


nan said:

tjohn said:

nan said:

drummerboy said:

nan said:

Even tjohn sees the danger in this visit. You might take it more seriously.  

yeah, but I don't think he's worried about WW III.

As far as I can tell, the only person supporting this trip is Pelosi.

Yeah, that excuse is not going to fly over in China.  They know how things are really done.  They know what this visit means and it's not benign.  

They may not even let the plane land. 

Nah.  China isn't going to get into a shooting was over Pelosi especially when Biden has more or less publicly said he thinks the trip is a bad idea.

You think Pelosi would go on this trip if Biden told her not to?   Yeah, that's not how it works. 

There is quite a history of Representatives and Senators charting their own course. That’s what is happening here.  I simply can’t accept the possibility that Biden or Blinken have any desire to unnecessarily antagonize China at this time. 



t John said:

There is quite a history of Representatives and Senators charting their own course. That’s what is happening here.  I simply can’t accept the possibility that Biden or Blinken have any desire to unnecessarily antagonize China at this time. 

Yeah, this trip idea is idiocy.

Surprised. Pelosi is generally more savvy.


tjohn said:

nan said:

tjohn said:

nan said:

drummerboy said:

nan said:

Even tjohn sees the danger in this visit. You might take it more seriously.  

yeah, but I don't think he's worried about WW III.

As far as I can tell, the only person supporting this trip is Pelosi.

Yeah, that excuse is not going to fly over in China.  They know how things are really done.  They know what this visit means and it's not benign.  

They may not even let the plane land. 

Nah.  China isn't going to get into a shooting was over Pelosi especially when Biden has more or less publicly said he thinks the trip is a bad idea.

You think Pelosi would go on this trip if Biden told her not to?   Yeah, that's not how it works. 

There is quite a history of Representatives and Senators charting their own course. That’s what is happening here.  I simply can’t accept the possibility that Biden or Blinken have any desire to unnecessarily antagonize China at this time. 

It looks like she wants to vex the dragon.  As if vexing the bear did not give us enough things to do and spend money on.

Speakers of the House do not go on controversial trips like this.  This is a huge deal and she would not want to do anything to hurt the Democrats.  So, if they are saying negative things about it in public, I'm sure they told her to go in private.  The Chinese are not going to buy the excuse that Biden said it was not a good idea.  They are rather sharp individuals. 

Mitch McConnell is saying that if she bails it will give China a win. (https://nypost.com/2022/07/26/mitch-mcconnell-says-nancy-pelosi-would-hand-china-a-win-if-she-sacks-taiwan-trip/)  

So, she might go for that reason.  Start WWIII to shut Mitch McConnell up.  Some of you would probably think that was worth it but you will change your mind when they bomb Maplewood. 

The Chinese don't fool around and they have seen what we did with Ukraine.  We are not going to fight the Chinese and win. This trip is nuts.  We are ruled by super nuts and will only get more of the same going forward. No one who will oppose this madness will be allowed to run.  


nan said:

tjohn said:

nan said:

tjohn said:

nan said:

drummerboy said:

nan said:

Even tjohn sees the danger in this visit. You might take it more seriously.  

yeah, but I don't think he's worried about WW III.

As far as I can tell, the only person supporting this trip is Pelosi.

Yeah, that excuse is not going to fly over in China.  They know how things are really done.  They know what this visit means and it's not benign.  

They may not even let the plane land. 

Nah.  China isn't going to get into a shooting was over Pelosi especially when Biden has more or less publicly said he thinks the trip is a bad idea.

You think Pelosi would go on this trip if Biden told her not to?   Yeah, that's not how it works. 

There is quite a history of Representatives and Senators charting their own course. That’s what is happening here.  I simply can’t accept the possibility that Biden or Blinken have any desire to unnecessarily antagonize China at this time. 

It looks like she wants to vex the dragon.  As if vexing the bear did not give us enough things to do and spend money on.

Speakers of the House do not go on controversial trips like this.  This is a huge deal and she would not want to do anything to hurt the Democrats.  So, if they are saying negative things about it in public, I'm sure they told her to go in private.  The Chinese are not going to buy the excuse that Biden said it was not a good idea.  They are rather sharp individuals. 

Mitch McConnell is saying that if she bails it will give China a win. (https://nypost.com/2022/07/26/mitch-mcconnell-says-nancy-pelosi-would-hand-china-a-win-if-she-sacks-taiwan-trip/)  

So, she might go for that reason.  Start WWIII to shut Mitch McConnell up.  Some of you would probably think that was worth it but you will change your mind when they bomb Maplewood. 

The Chinese don't fool around and they have seen what we did with Ukraine.  We are not going to fight the Chinese and win. This trip is nuts.  We are ruled by super nuts and will only get more of the same going forward. No one who will oppose this madness will be allowed to run.  

You are so fukcing stupid, I don't know how you can handle your daily life. I don't agree with sbenois on much of anything, but his take on you is spot on. Please move to Moscow and prostrate yourself before your lord and master Putin.


nan said:

tjohn said:

nan said:

tjohn said:

nan said:

drummerboy said:

nan said:

Even tjohn sees the danger in this visit. You might take it more seriously.  

yeah, but I don't think he's worried about WW III.

As far as I can tell, the only person supporting this trip is Pelosi.

Yeah, that excuse is not going to fly over in China.  They know how things are really done.  They know what this visit means and it's not benign.  

They may not even let the plane land. 

Nah.  China isn't going to get into a shooting was over Pelosi especially when Biden has more or less publicly said he thinks the trip is a bad idea.

You think Pelosi would go on this trip if Biden told her not to?   Yeah, that's not how it works. 

There is quite a history of Representatives and Senators charting their own course. That’s what is happening here.  I simply can’t accept the possibility that Biden or Blinken have any desire to unnecessarily antagonize China at this time. 

It looks like she wants to vex the dragon.  As if vexing the bear did not give us enough things to do and spend money on.

Speakers of the House do not go on controversial trips like this.  This is a huge deal and she would not want to do anything to hurt the Democrats.  So, if they are saying negative things about it in public, I'm sure they told her to go in private.  The Chinese are not going to buy the excuse that Biden said it was not a good idea.  They are rather sharp individuals. 

Mitch McConnell is saying that if she bails it will give China a win. (https://nypost.com/2022/07/26/mitch-mcconnell-says-nancy-pelosi-would-hand-china-a-win-if-she-sacks-taiwan-trip/)  

So, she might go for that reason.  Start WWIII to shut Mitch McConnell up.  Some of you would probably think that was worth it but you will change your mind when they bomb Maplewood. 

The Chinese don't fool around and they have seen what we did with Ukraine.  We are not going to fight the Chinese and win. This trip is nuts.  We are ruled by super nuts and will only get more of the same going forward. No one who will oppose this madness will be allowed to run.  

what a silly post


There's a good column in today's NY Times on this issue. I think it talks about it the right way, as in not placing all the blame on the U.S., and in recognizing the need to support Taiwan's ability to make its own choices.

The authors' recommendation for the current question is: "First, Ms. Pelosi should postpone any visit to Taiwan to give the Biden administration time to articulate a clear and consistent policy toward the island. This is critical not only so that China understands the U.S. stance, but so that the American people are clear too." I'm not sure if it's necessary for Pelosi to skip Taiwan as part of her larger trip through Asia, in order to send the same messages, but that's something that the diplomats and politicians have to tackle.

On the larger issues involving Taiwan, the U.S., and China, they write -

Beijing, though, should recognize its role in raising the tensions. Critics in the United States rightly warn that China has upset the regional balance through its military modernization, raising fears of an invasion of Taiwan. Incursions by Chinese military aircraft into Taiwan’s air defense zone are on track to hit a new high this year.
...

But neither side needs a war. And from a U.S. strategic standpoint, this is a particularly bad issue to pick a fight with China over: Even Democratic leaders in the executive and legislative branches are divided over Ms. Pelosi’s trip.

Washington and Beijing must stop the escalation and clearly communicate their concerns and red lines. This is all the more difficult because China’s aggressive propaganda has desensitized Americans to Beijing’s messaging. Yet there are steps that leaders can take to decrease the temperature.

Along these lines, the recommendation is that "Administration leaders should work to build bipartisan consensus around a policy stressing that America’s top objective is to deter Chinese use of force against Taiwan and preserve peace in the Taiwan Strait. They should lay out U.S. efforts to stabilize the status quo, including steps that both Washington and Beijing could take to reduce the risks."

Finally, cancelling or rescheduling Pelosi's trip shouldn't be seen as any sort of backing away from support for Taiwan. "In addition, the United States should reassure Taiwan that it will insist on the peaceful resolution of cross-Strait differences. The United States could expedite delivery of backlogged weapons and approve the sale of additional arms to strengthen Taipei’s ability to defend itself."

As I said, however one comes out with respect to Pelosi's trip at this time, the column has a very good discussion of the issues.

It's unlocked, here, for anyone to read (the title is more inflammatory than the contents): Nancy Pelosi’s Trip to Taiwan Is Too Dangerous


Dennis_Seelbach said:

nan said:

tjohn said:

nan said:

tjohn said:

nan said:

drummerboy said:

nan said:

Even tjohn sees the danger in this visit. You might take it more seriously.  

yeah, but I don't think he's worried about WW III.

As far as I can tell, the only person supporting this trip is Pelosi.

Yeah, that excuse is not going to fly over in China.  They know how things are really done.  They know what this visit means and it's not benign.  

They may not even let the plane land. 

Nah.  China isn't going to get into a shooting was over Pelosi especially when Biden has more or less publicly said he thinks the trip is a bad idea.

You think Pelosi would go on this trip if Biden told her not to?   Yeah, that's not how it works. 

There is quite a history of Representatives and Senators charting their own course. That’s what is happening here.  I simply can’t accept the possibility that Biden or Blinken have any desire to unnecessarily antagonize China at this time. 

It looks like she wants to vex the dragon.  As if vexing the bear did not give us enough things to do and spend money on.

Speakers of the House do not go on controversial trips like this.  This is a huge deal and she would not want to do anything to hurt the Democrats.  So, if they are saying negative things about it in public, I'm sure they told her to go in private.  The Chinese are not going to buy the excuse that Biden said it was not a good idea.  They are rather sharp individuals. 

Mitch McConnell is saying that if she bails it will give China a win. (https://nypost.com/2022/07/26/mitch-mcconnell-says-nancy-pelosi-would-hand-china-a-win-if-she-sacks-taiwan-trip/)  

So, she might go for that reason.  Start WWIII to shut Mitch McConnell up.  Some of you would probably think that was worth it but you will change your mind when they bomb Maplewood. 

The Chinese don't fool around and they have seen what we did with Ukraine.  We are not going to fight the Chinese and win. This trip is nuts.  We are ruled by super nuts and will only get more of the same going forward. No one who will oppose this madness will be allowed to run.  

You are so fukcing stupid, I don't know how you can handle your daily life. I don't agree with sbenois on much of anything, but his take on you is spot on. Please move to Moscow and prostrate yourself before your lord and master Putin.

I comment about China and you tell me to move to Moscow.  You can't even get your insults right, Dennis. 


OK, today we got a readout from a phone call between Biden and Xi and the gist of what Xi said was this:

"Those who play with fire will perish by it. It is hoped that the US will be clear-eyed about this.”

Are we going to just ignore this or say he does not mean it as we did when Putin screamed about NATO for eight years?

Probably.  


This is the state of play: US is crossing another red line. Arrogantly and stupidly.


here is the readout of the call. nan's interpretation is, um, interesting.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/07/28/readout-of-president-bidens-call-with-president-xi-jinping-of-the-peoples-republic-of-china/

President Joseph R. Biden Jr. spoke today with President Xi Jinping of
the People’s Republic of China (PRC). The call was a part of the Biden
Administration’s efforts to maintain and deepen lines of communication
between the United States and the PRC and responsibly manage our
differences and work together where our interests align. The call
follows the two leaders’ conversation on March 18th and a
series of conversations between high-level U.S. and PRC officials. The
two presidents discussed a range of issues important to the bilateral
relationship and other regional and global issues, and tasked their
teams to continue following up on today’s conversation, in particular
to address climate change and health security. On Taiwan, President
Biden underscored that the United States policy has not changed and that
the United States strongly opposes unilateral efforts to change the
status quo or undermine peace and stability across the Taiwan Strait.


paulsurovell said:

This is the state of play: US is crossing another red line. Arrogantly and stupidly.

JFC, that's propaganda for home consumption as Xi goes for the CCP version of immortality, extending his rule and enshrining his "thought" alongside Mao and Deng.


drummerboy said:

here is the readout of the call. nan's interpretation is, um, interesting.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/07/28/readout-of-president-bidens-call-with-president-xi-jinping-of-the-peoples-republic-of-china/

President Joseph R. Biden Jr. spoke today with President Xi Jinping of
the People’s Republic of China (PRC). The call was a part of the Biden
Administration’s efforts to maintain and deepen lines of communication
between the United States and the PRC and responsibly manage our
differences and work together where our interests align. The call
follows the two leaders’ conversation on March 18th and a
series of conversations between high-level U.S. and PRC officials. The
two presidents discussed a range of issues important to the bilateral
relationship and other regional and global issues, and tasked their
teams to continue following up on today’s conversation, in particular
to address climate change and health security. On Taiwan, President
Biden underscored that the United States policy has not changed and that
the United States strongly opposes unilateral efforts to change the
status quo or undermine peace and stability across the Taiwan Strait.

As in, not "preparing for war" over a drop-in by an octogenarian legislator.


drummerboy said:

here is the readout of the call. nan's interpretation is, um, interesting.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/07/28/readout-of-president-bidens-call-with-president-xi-jinping-of-the-peoples-republic-of-china/

President Joseph R. Biden Jr. spoke today with President Xi Jinping of
the People’s Republic of China (PRC). The call was a part of the Biden
Administration’s efforts to maintain and deepen lines of communication
between the United States and the PRC and responsibly manage our
differences and work together where our interests align. The call
follows the two leaders’ conversation on March 18th and a
series of conversations between high-level U.S. and PRC officials. The
two presidents discussed a range of issues important to the bilateral
relationship and other regional and global issues, and tasked their
teams to continue following up on today’s conversation, in particular
to address climate change and health security. On Taiwan, President
Biden underscored that the United States policy has not changed and that
the United States strongly opposes unilateral efforts to change the
status quo or undermine peace and stability across the Taiwan Strait.

That's not the readout, that's the propaganda spin. Where did you read the actual readout?


nan said:

That's not the readout, that's the propaganda spin. Where did you read the actual readout?

where did you?


I swear if some country invaded the U.S. Nan and Paul would find some way to insist it was the U.S. fault.


PVW said:

I swear if some country invaded the U.S. Nan and Paul would find some way to insist it was the U.S. fault.

Do you consider it impossible that that the US should hold positions that would cause other countries to invade us?


nan said:

Do you consider it impossible that that the US should hold positions that would cause other countries to invade us?

I consider it impossible to find a situation you believe the US is not the one at fault.


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