Is DeSantis worse than trump?

there will probably be a dozen or more GOP candidates. Even if they don't think they'll win, it will position many of the candidates for wing nut welfare via a sweetheart book deal, radio program, or cable news program. 

Build the personal brand baby!


ml1 said:

there will probably be a dozen or more GOP candidates. Even if they don't think they'll win, it will position many of the candidates for wing nut welfare via a sweetheart book deal, radio program, or cable news program. 

Build the personal brand baby!

DeSantis 

Pence

Youngkin

Hogan (MD Gov)

Noem

Pompeo

That’s what I’ve got so far.


sbenois said:

Cheney

That would make for some interesting debates. 


DeSantis has all the buzz right now, but Pence will be a formidable opponent. He’s boring and a phony, but that doesn’t really matter in the GOP primary. As a candidate he’s rock steady, proven and vetted on the national stage, and he doesn’t make mistakes. DeSantis will need to live up to his hype to beat Pence. 


Jaytee said:

yes. Youngkin also. I’m telling you that it will be great entertainment to see trumpenstein debating all his ole time associates in the primaries. Biden most likely gets a second term.

I've got to watch Youngkin. He was way off my radar. Kept hearing his name but never caught any speeches.

Anyway, yes it will be fun!

Also looking forward to watching C SPAN for all of those snappy House and Senate speeches. I'm trying to picture Fetterman's wardrobe in the Senate.



Smedley said:

DeSantis has all the buzz right now, but Pence will be a formidable opponent. He’s boring and a phony, but that doesn’t really matter in the GOP primary. As a candidate he’s rock steady, proven and vetted on the national stage, and he doesn’t make mistakes. DeSantis will need to live up to his hype to beat Pence. 

Pence will be more likely to never break 5% of the vote in a primary than to be a formidable opponent. Outside of the evangelicals, who are his base? And DeSantis has gone all in on Christian nationalism, so where does that leave Pence?


Just saw the ad that Mike Pence will be on CNN with Jake Tapper 9 PM Wed discussing direction of the party and his plans.



Morganna said:

Just saw the ad that Mike Pence will be on CNN with Jake Tapper 9 PM Wed discussing direction of the party and his plans.

I'll be the POTUS before Pence is.


The MAGA crowd will make Trump the RNC's candidate again.   There's not enough time to deprogram them.


ml1 said:

Morganna said:

Just saw the ad that Mike Pence will be on CNN with Jake Tapper 9 PM Wed discussing direction of the party and his plans.

I'll be the POTUS before Pence is.

I'll be POTUS before Mike Pence is.


ml1 said:

Smedley said:

DeSantis has all the buzz right now, but Pence will be a formidable opponent. He’s boring and a phony, but that doesn’t really matter in the GOP primary. As a candidate he’s rock steady, proven and vetted on the national stage, and he doesn’t make mistakes. DeSantis will need to live up to his hype to beat Pence. 

Pence will be more likely to never break 5% of the vote in a primary than to be a formidable opponent. Outside of the evangelicals, who are his base? And DeSantis has gone all in on Christian nationalism, so where does that leave Pence?

At this time it looks like it’s DeSantis’ nomination to lose. And if he’s able to transition his popularity in Florida onto the national stage, Pence has no chance.

But you and I both know history, and history shows plenty of flameouts of candidates who were on top at this very early stage of the election cycle. 

So what I’m saying is that if DeSantis turns out to be not the messiah the GOP thinks he is, Pence is the most likely GOP nominee. He’s smart, politically savvy, and IMO he’d be best able to bridge the gap bw establishment Republicans and MAGA freakozoids. Yeah yeah, I know they said hang Pence on Jan. 6, but that was far-right psychos, and that would be quickly forgiven / forgotten in the name of political opportunism. 

 


DeSantis is worse than Trump.

He's smarter and much younger but has all the fascist racist misogynistic tendencies.

Trump self-imploded during his first term.  DeSantis would have been re-elected in a landslide.


Smedley said:

At this time it looks like it’s DeSantis’ nomination to lose. And if he’s able to transition his popularity in Florida onto the national stage, Pence has no chance.

But you and I both know history, and history shows plenty of flameouts of candidates who were on top at this very early stage of the election cycle. 

So what I’m saying is that if DeSantis turns out to be not the messiah the GOP thinks he is, Pence is the most likely GOP nominee. He’s smart, politically savvy, and IMO he’d be best able to bridge the gap bw establishment Republicans and MAGA freakozoids. Yeah yeah, I know they said hang Pence on Jan. 6, but that was far-right psychos, and that would be quickly forgiven / forgotten in the name of political opportunism. 

 

meh. It's easy to throw out these kind of hot takes. What's your definition of formidable opponent?

Would you be willing right now to bet cash money that Pence would win more than one state primary in '24? Would you bet that he'd even win one?


I'm just going to be eating popcorn and enjoying the show of people trying to wash the Trump slime off and re-interpret past statements.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/11/12/top-10-republican-candidates-2024/

ml1 said:

Smedley said:

At this time it looks like it’s DeSantis’ nomination to lose. And if he’s able to transition his popularity in Florida onto the national stage, Pence has no chance.

But you and I both know history, and history shows plenty of flameouts of candidates who were on top at this very early stage of the election cycle. 

So what I’m saying is that if DeSantis turns out to be not the messiah the GOP thinks he is, Pence is the most likely GOP nominee. He’s smart, politically savvy, and IMO he’d be best able to bridge the gap bw establishment Republicans and MAGA freakozoids. Yeah yeah, I know they said hang Pence on Jan. 6, but that was far-right psychos, and that would be quickly forgiven / forgotten in the name of political opportunism. 

 

meh. It's easy to throw out these kind of hot takes. What's your definition of formidable opponent?

Would you be willing right now to bet cash money that Pence would win more than one state primary in '24? Would you bet that he'd even win one?

Pence was VP for four years and he’s #3 on WaPo contender list published just yesterday. So my take is hardly a hot one.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/11/12/top-10-republican-candidates-2024/


Smedley said:

Pence was VP for four years and he’s #3 on WaPo contender list published just yesterday. So my take is hardly a hot one.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/11/12/top-10-republican-candidates-2024/

I don’t know what Pence’s “lane” is. He’s both too close to Trump for “never Trumpers”, based on his sycophantic service for years, and also toxic now for Trump “true believers”. 


Smedley said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/11/12/top-10-republican-candidates-2024/

ml1 said:

Smedley said:

At this time it looks like it’s DeSantis’ nomination to lose. And if he’s able to transition his popularity in Florida onto the national stage, Pence has no chance.

But you and I both know history, and history shows plenty of flameouts of candidates who were on top at this very early stage of the election cycle. 

So what I’m saying is that if DeSantis turns out to be not the messiah the GOP thinks he is, Pence is the most likely GOP nominee. He’s smart, politically savvy, and IMO he’d be best able to bridge the gap bw establishment Republicans and MAGA freakozoids. Yeah yeah, I know they said hang Pence on Jan. 6, but that was far-right psychos, and that would be quickly forgiven / forgotten in the name of political opportunism. 

 

meh. It's easy to throw out these kind of hot takes. What's your definition of formidable opponent?

Would you be willing right now to bet cash money that Pence would win more than one state primary in '24? Would you bet that he'd even win one?

Pence was VP for four years and he’s #3 on WaPo contender list published just yesterday. So my take is hardly a hot one.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/11/12/top-10-republican-candidates-2024/

you've cited an opinion piece as your evidence. Not surprising.

The current polling has Pence hovering around 10% support.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-primary-r/

If your definition of "formidable" is distant third, then I'm with you.  Would you bet now that Pence will win more than one state primary or caucus? I don't like to do predictions a year and a half out, but this is one I would. I'd commit now to putting down money that says Mike Pence won't win more than one state in 2024. As nohero has asked, what's Pences lane in the primaries? He'd likely not get a single MAGA vote.


nohero said:

I don’t know what Pence’s “lane” is. He’s both too close to Trump for “never Trumpers”, based on his sycophantic service for years, and also toxic now for Trump “true believers”. 

I think republicans, and Americans in general have realized that Pence is not trustworthy. He comes across as fake. I’ll vote for Ridski with his green card before I vote for pence…. And so will millions of Americans.


Ron DeSantis is the new Marco Rubio. 


Jaytee said:

I think republicans, and Americans in general have realized that Pence is not trustworthy. He comes across as fake. I’ll vote for Ridski with his green card before I vote for pence…. And so will millions of Americans.

I personally don’t think Pence is a strong contender in 2024. However, what remains to be seen as what he’s able to do in terms of building his brand over the next couple of years. Is he the brave Republican who stood up for the American electoral process at a time of great crisis? Can he build his campaign messaging around that one ethical choice?

We saw Adolph Giuliani try that strategy with his 911 messaging, and it didn’t work. Pence is also really well known for his pro-life stance. Given the amount of voters in exit polls who said that abortion rights was one of their top voting issues, I think he’s not as attractive to the GOP as their nominee.


Will Mike Pence's new book (called, so help me God, "So Help Me God") help or hurt him?

"Donald Trump was giving voice to the desperation and frustration caused by decades of government mismanagement and neglect. He articulated, in his own blunt way, the economic and social anxieties felt by Americans in a changing world — anxieties that the leaders in both parties ignored."

More: Pence book excerpt: Trump gave voice to Americans fed up with decades of government mismanagement - Washington Times


mrincredible said:

I personally don’t think Pence is a strong contender in 2024. However, what remains to be seen as what he’s able to do in terms of building his brand over the next couple of years. Is he the brave Republican who stood up for the American electoral process at a time of great crisis? Can he build his campaign messaging around that one ethical choice?

We saw Adolph Giuliani try that strategy with his 911 messaging, and it didn’t work. Pence is also really well known for his pro-life stance. Given the amount of voters in exit polls who said that abortion rights was one of their top voting issues, I think he’s not as attractive to the GOP as their nominee.

It was his pro-life stance that made me think he might have a following. It looks as if 40% of voters are still pro-life although polls suggested the number would be 25% and if those are almost all Republicans he might get their vote. The religious conservatives could look at him as someone who did his best to support Trump.

That group is not satisfied with the overturning of Roe, they have a taste of victory and will push on the issue hoping for a complete ban. They are crusaders.

I wouldn't count him out as a potential nominee.


ml1 said:

Smedley said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/11/12/top-10-republican-candidates-2024/

ml1 said:

Smedley said:

At this time it looks like it’s DeSantis’ nomination to lose. And if he’s able to transition his popularity in Florida onto the national stage, Pence has no chance.

But you and I both know history, and history shows plenty of flameouts of candidates who were on top at this very early stage of the election cycle. 

So what I’m saying is that if DeSantis turns out to be not the messiah the GOP thinks he is, Pence is the most likely GOP nominee. He’s smart, politically savvy, and IMO he’d be best able to bridge the gap bw establishment Republicans and MAGA freakozoids. Yeah yeah, I know they said hang Pence on Jan. 6, but that was far-right psychos, and that would be quickly forgiven / forgotten in the name of political opportunism. 

 

meh. It's easy to throw out these kind of hot takes. What's your definition of formidable opponent?

Would you be willing right now to bet cash money that Pence would win more than one state primary in '24? Would you bet that he'd even win one?

Pence was VP for four years and he’s #3 on WaPo contender list published just yesterday. So my take is hardly a hot one.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/11/12/top-10-republican-candidates-2024/

you've cited an opinion piece as your evidence. Not surprising.

The current polling has Pence hovering around 10% support.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-primary-r/

If your definition of "formidable" is distant third, then I'm with you.  Would you bet now that Pence will win more than one state primary or caucus? I don't like to do predictions a year and a half out, but this is one I would. I'd commit now to putting down money that says Mike Pence won't win more than one state in 2024. As nohero has asked, what's Pences lane in the primaries? He'd likely not get a single MAGA vote.

Pence is a smart, politically savvy guy with WH experience who can potentially bridge gap b/w establishment and MAGA crowd. In my book that's formidable.

I've also qualified my constructive comments re: Pence with the acknowledgement that he has no chance if DeSantis proves to be the same juggernaut on the national stage as he is in Florida - an important caveat that you ignore. But if RDS flames out for whatever reason(s), I'd put my money on Pence, because as I've been saying for a while now, I believe Trump is finished politically.

Speaking of money, I'll decline your wager, as I don't think gambling is authorized on MOL and I do not wish to expose its proprietors to a lawsuit from DraftKings or FanDuel. But I look forward to discussing further as we move down the road toward the nomination.  


I could see Youngkin getting some traction. Like nohero, I have a hard time seeing who Pence's base would be. Trumpists who are tired of Trump? A bit self-contradictory. I don't see the core evangelical support of Trumpists being separate from actual support for Trump in any meaningful numbers, which leaves little to no room for Pence.

 DeSantis is very Trumpish, meaning he's likely going to have to outright displace Trump, or either be defeated by Trump or fail to challenge him and fade away on his own.

Youngkin has enough distance from Trump, while still having enough Trump-ish characteristics, to make a plausible alternative. 

tl;dr -- No room for Pence. Room for either Trump or DeSantis, but not both. Youngkin has a relatively open lane.


Smedley said:

Pence is a smart, politically savvy guy with WH experience who can potentially bridge gap b/w establishment and MAGA crowd. In my book that's formidable.

I've also qualified my constructive comments re: Pence with the acknowledgement that he has no chance if DeSantis proves to be the same juggernaut on the national stage as he is in Florida - an important caveat that you ignore. But if RDS flames out for whatever reason(s), I'd put my money on Pence, because as I've been saying for a while now, I believe Trump is finished politically.

Speaking of money, I'll decline your wager, as I don't think gambling is authorized on MOL and I do not wish to expose its proprietors to a lawsuit from DraftKings or FanDuel. But I look forward to discussing further as we move down the road toward the nomination.  

meh. You're also the guy who harangued us for months that we MUST be very concerned about Biden's September 2021 approval rating because it meant a sure electoral wipeout for Democrats in the midterm.


PVW said:

I could see Youngkin getting some traction. Like nohero, I have a hard time seeing who Pence's base would be. Trumpists who are tired of Trump? A bit self-contradictory. I don't see the core evangelical support of Trumpists being separate from actual support for Trump in any meaningful numbers, which leaves little to no room for Pence.

 DeSantis is very Trumpish, meaning he's likely going to have to outright displace Trump, or either be defeated by Trump or fail to challenge him and fade away on his own.

Youngkin has enough distance from Trump, while still having enough Trump-ish characteristics, to make a plausible alternative. 

tl;dr -- No room for Pence. Room for either Trump or DeSantis, but not both. Youngkin has a relatively open lane.

but an opinion columnist at the WaPo ranks Pence as the 3rd most formidable Republican!


Morganna said:

It was his pro-life stance that made me think he might have a following. It looks as if 40% of voters are still pro-life although polls suggested the number would be 25% and if those are almost all Republicans he might get their vote. The religious conservatives could look at him as someone who did his best to support Trump.

That group is not satisfied with the overturning of Roe, they have a taste of victory and will push on the issue hoping for a complete ban. They are crusaders.

I wouldn't count him out as a potential nominee.

DeSantis is also stridently anti abortion. Thus the question of what Pence's "lane" would be. 


It's really hard for me to pick who a Republican front runner might be because they're all so loathsome.

Having said that, I don't think Pence has much of a base. His WH "experience" such as it was, is not going to help him much. I just don't see him offering much to Republican voters. The word "meh" was practically created for him.

DeSantis? Still not sure how well he will play nationally, but he can definitely vie for the assh0le vote that Trump depends on.

And Trump? I think his base is still unmovable and will be hard for anyone else to peel votes from.

Here's a good piece on Trump's base and what drives them.

https://brianklaas.substack.com/p/will-republicans-defy-trumps-authoritarian?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

I'd be very surprised if Youngkin is a strong candidate. Too new to the scene. He'd really have to break through in some unique way.

And, as always, remember that R primary voters are generally the most psychotic.


drummerboy said:

I'd be very surprised if Youngkin is a strong candidate. Too new to the scene. He'd really have to break through in some unique way.


To make it a bit clearer -- I think his "lane" is the non-never-Trump Trump alternative. I think his competition here is people like Chris Christie.

At the end of the day, though, I think the nominee will be Trump.


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