Iran Deal will Pass!!
But don't turn your back on Iran. Iran's interests are not our interests although, interestingly enough, there is some overlap of our interests, particularly when it comes to ISIS.
https://maplewood.worldwebs.com/forums/discussion/id/101540-New-Hope-for-Iranian-US-Peace?page=1
krugle1 said:
Who thinks Iran is funding ISIS?
Ridiculous. They're fighting Isis.
Iraq and Syria
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/war-with-isis-iran-seeks-to-join-international-coalition-battling-militants-as-part-of-significant-shift-in-its-foreign-policy-10461307.html
krugle1 said:
back later with full argument.
Make sure you include a discussion of:
1. the Shi'a - Sunni schism.
2. the de facto Shi'a-Sunni civil currently ongoing in the Middle East.
Hint: Iran is Shi'a Muslim and ISIS is Sunni or Sunni based.
How could anyone be a fan of Iran? Or think that a US Iran "Peace" can ever be made with the current theocracy that actively supports terrorism both near and abroad as well as within their own borders, targeting any type of minority possible as well as having zero civil rights.
What was their pre-nuclear stance? We'll fund terrorist proxies and de-stabilize the entire region and challenge the Sunni states in order to spread radical Shia Islam across the region? Is that what the dream was? 
BubbaTerp said:
How could anyone be a fan of Iran? Or think that a US Iran "Peace" can ever be made with the current theocracy that actively supports terrorism both near and abroad as well as within their own borders, targeting any type of minority possible as well as having zero civil rights.
Nobody here has said that he or she is a fan of Iran.
That has nothing to do with deciding the best way to defend our country. And the treaty is the best available way to do that.
I find it interesting that allowing terrorism to be funded while getting the same nuclear capability that Iran would have received without the deal, is helpful to defending our country and its interests. Do you really think this deal will actually prevent Iranian nuclear capabilities? Laughing
BubbaTerp said:
I find it interesting that allowing terrorism to be funded while getting the same nuclear capability that Iran would have received without the deal, is helpful to defending our country and its interests. Do you really think this deal will actually prevent Iranian nuclear capabilities? Laughing
How do you figure Iran gets the same nuclear capability that it would have received (?) without the deal?
What prevents Iran from getting a nuke in the next 12 months without a deal?
BubbaTerp said:
Do you really think this deal will actually prevent Iranian nuclear capabilities? Laughing
I don't know. But, "no deal", as you apparently support, is worse. So there.
BubbaTerp said:
How could anyone be a fan of Iran? Or think that a US Iran "Peace" can ever be made with the current theocracy that actively supports terrorism both near and abroad as well as within their own borders, targeting any type of minority possible as well as having zero civil rights.
I'm a fan of the Iran democracy movement that wants to throw off the theocracy and establish a modern state with normal relations with other countries.
The members of this movement strongly support the deal, because (a) they don't want Iran to develop nuclear weapons and (b) they believe that more contact with the West will help their cause.
More Western contact with the Iranian people, especially the business community and academia, is the big upside to lifting the nuclear sanctions.
Existing sanctions for Iran's non-nuclear activities -- support for Hezbollah for example -- are not lifted by the nuclear deal.
ParticleMan said:
BubbaTerp said:How do you figure Iran gets the same nuclear capability that it would have received (?) without the deal?
I find it interesting that allowing terrorism to be funded while getting the same nuclear capability that Iran would have received without the deal, is helpful to defending our country and its interests. Do you really think this deal will actually prevent Iranian nuclear capabilities? Laughing
What prevents Iran from getting a nuke in the next 12 months without a deal?
Good luck with getting those answered. I've tried numerous times.
@BubbaTerp: No "fan of Iran" here, and the dream was for peace with Iran. Two different things, Bubba.
nohero, how about a much stronger deal from the US perspective? I notice nobody here critical of the bangup job POTUS and SecState did. I get that we're all excited Marriage Rights were enshrined on POTUS watch and more Americans have healthcare, but how can you assume this deal is just the bees knees when US foreign policy has made mistake after mistake in the Middle East under POTUS watch.
nohero said:
BubbaTerp said:I don't know. But, "no deal", as you apparently support, is worse. So there.
Do you really think this deal will actually prevent Iranian nuclear capabilities? Laughing
I will say it's charming that there is such a degree of confidence in Iran adhering to a deal that many agree has a very loose ability to be monitored, and also have such confidence in a strong US response to any Iran slippage. Having been to Iran three times, I do believe if the average Iranian was managing the Iranian nuclear program, they'd be honest partners, but I saw first hand what the government there is all about and its a violent, scary and ultimately evil group and we should all be more fearful of their gaining more power, whether through nuclear weapons or just through conventional economics, terrorism and regional leadership.
BubbaTerp said:
I will say it's charming that there is such a degree of confidence in Iran adhering to a deal that many agree has a very loose ability to be monitored...
And right there is the nonsense.
Respectfully disagree that its nonsense. I get that there are many high level endorsers of the deal but there are also MANY detractors as well, raising serious concerns. What we really have is risk assessment, it's not 100% a bad deal nor is it 100% the perfect deal. I do feel it's much more towards the bad than the good side in that it will permanently alter the balance of power, allow a dangerous terrorist and fascist-religious state to become at minimum THE regional hegemon.
dave23 said:
BubbaTerp said:And right there is the nonsense.
I will say it's charming that there is such a degree of confidence in Iran adhering to a deal that many agree has a very loose ability to be monitored...
BubbaTerp said:
Respectfully disagree that its nonsense. I get that there are many high level endorsers of the deal but there are also MANY detractors as well, raising serious concerns. What we really have is risk assessment, it's not 100% a bad deal nor is it 100% the perfect deal. I do feel it's much more towards the bad than the good side in that it will permanently alter the balance of power, allow a dangerous terrorist and fascist-religious state to become at minimum THE regional hegemon.
dave23 said:
BubbaTerp said:And right there is the nonsense.
I will say it's charming that there is such a degree of confidence in Iran adhering to a deal that many agree has a very loose ability to be monitored...
Okay. What details in the deal allow a "very loose ability to be monitored?"
Don't have time to fish much for good links, but enjoy these for the time being D23!
http://dailysignal.com/2015/09/03/5-things-john-kerry-got-wrong-on-the-iran-deal/
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chapman/ct-iran-nuclear-cheat-sanctions-perspec-0813-20150812-column.html
dave23 said:
BubbaTerp said:Okay. What details in the deal allow a "very loose ability to be monitored?"
Respectfully disagree that its nonsense. I get that there are many high level endorsers of the deal but there are also MANY detractors as well, raising serious concerns. What we really have is risk assessment, it's not 100% a bad deal nor is it 100% the perfect deal. I do feel it's much more towards the bad than the good side in that it will permanently alter the balance of power, allow a dangerous terrorist and fascist-religious state to become at minimum THE regional hegemon.
dave23 said:
BubbaTerp said:And right there is the nonsense.
I will say it's charming that there is such a degree of confidence in Iran adhering to a deal that many agree has a very loose ability to be monitored...
BubbaTerp said:
Don't have time to fish much for good links, but enjoy these for the time being D23!
http://dailysignal.com/2015/09/03/5-things-john-kerry-got-wrong-on-the-iran-deal/
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chapman/ct-iran-nuclear-cheat-sanctions-perspec-0813-20150812-column.html
dave23 said:Okay. What details in the deal allow a "very loose ability to be monitored?"
I couldn't read the Trib op-ed because it redirected me to the front page. And the Daily Signal piece doesn't answer my question.
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34 votes. I remember, as Tulip/charlie, whoever I was at the time before Obama won, dreaming of a deal with Iran here on MOL. I definitely asserted the idea of negotiating with Iran, given their pre-nuclear stance.
So glad it will happen!