How Dems tried to steal the election in 2016 just like T**** did in 2020
What the thread title says didn't happen, and I'm not aware of anyone who said it did.
However, there was an attempt to steal the 2016 elections, by Democrats who were in touch with the Clinton campaign, that sought to persuade electors pledged to vote for Trump vote for another candidate in the Electoral College and thus overturn the will of the voters.
Politico covered the attempt:
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/democrats-electoral-college-faithless-trump-231731
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/donald-trump-electoral-college-231980
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/electoral-college-rogues-trump-clinton-232195
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/clinton-electoral-college-trump-232906
PVW said:
Hmm, you didn't seem to have such a critical tone toward the idea when you first shared that story:
Now it’s two pages arguing for the definition of “attempt” and “tried”…. Shovel in hand already.
PVW said:
Hmm, you didn't seem to have such a critical tone toward the idea when you first shared that story:
Did you just search for that, or did you have it for a while and were saving it for a special occasion?
I wasn't searching for Paul specifically -- I was just curious what, if anything, people were saying about the topic back when it happened. I do those kinds of searches pretty often -- it's not about gotchas, but about trying to keep context and take discussion seriously. I often search for myself to remind myself what, if anything, I've said about a topic in the past.
jamie said:
Paul please post your summary here. Show the fake elector scheme. Show the constant barrage by Hillary that the election will be stolen. And post her daily rants after the fact the she was actually elected.
sarcasm noted…
paulsurovell said:
What the thread title says didn't happen, and I'm not aware of anyone who said it did.
What should the thread title be?
And again - we're discussing this because what T**** did was similar - or does this have nothing to do with T****?
I know what the politico articles are saying. So - should we forgive T**** because Hillary did it? I'm just not following the logic.
How far did they get? Was Biden on his way with a list of fake electors to the capital?
Did Hillary claim she was the duly elected president at rallies the following 3 years?
Jaytee said:
Now it’s two pages arguing for the definition of “attempt” and “tried”…. Shovel in hand already.
wouldn't it be refreshing if the response was just "I changed my mind"?
PVW said:
Hmm, you didn't seem to have such a critical tone toward the idea when you first shared that story:
Yes, it looks like I posted one of the Politico pieces a long time ago.
jamie said:
paulsurovell said:
What the thread title says didn't happen, and I'm not aware of anyone who said it did.
What should the thread title be?
Maybe how I framed the issue at the start:
There's the Trump way and then there's "the liberals" way of trying to overturn an election
*liberals' (apostrophe)
paulsurovell said:
PVW said:
Hmm, you didn't seem to have such a critical tone toward the idea when you first shared that story:Yes, it looks like I posted one of the Politico pieces a long time ago.
mmkay.
But that's only one part of the indictment - you make it sound as if that's his only issue - not sure what the purpose of inflating this whatabout is?
Can you compare a similar action the "liberals" did to storming the capital? Can you show the hundreds of times that Hillary said the election would be rigged - prior to the election? Can you cite the hundreds of times Hillary said she won and she's the president? Can you cite the number of times Hillary warned that there would be violence if this didn't go the right way? Can you show us when she called a state elector and demanded for them to find 11,000 votes?
ml1 said:
Jaytee said:
Now it’s two pages arguing for the definition of “attempt” and “tried”…. Shovel in hand already.
wouldn't it be refreshing if the response was just "I changed my mind"?
Certainly Democrats' current self-righteous campaign against Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election while refusing to acknowledge their own campaign to overturn the 2016 election, has informed -- and in that sense "changed" -- the way that I look at and discuss the 2016 experience.
paulsurovell said:
ml1 said:
Jaytee said:
Now it’s two pages arguing for the definition of “attempt” and “tried”…. Shovel in hand already.
wouldn't it be refreshing if the response was just "I changed my mind"?
Certainly Democrats' current self-righteous campaign against Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election while refusing to acknowledge their own campaign to overturn the 2016 election, has informed -- and in that sense "changed" -- the way that I look at and discuss the 2016 experience.
mmkay
jamie said:
But that's only one part of the indictment - you make it sound as if that's his only issue - not sure what the purpose of inflating this whatabout is?
That's the part of the indictment I'm discussing.
No@jamie said:
Can you compare a similar action the "liberals" did to storming the capital?
jamie said:
Can you show the hundreds of times that Hillary said the election would be rigged - prior to the election?
You don't accuse an election of being rigged when you're absolutely sure that you're going to win.
Hillary and her supporters have said more than hundreds of times that Trump's victory was illegitimate:jamie said:
Can you cite the hundreds of times Hillary said she won and she's the president?
https://www.yahoo.com/video/hillary-clinton-maintains-2016-election-160716779.html
No.jamie said:
Can you cite the number of times Hillary warned that there would be violence if this didn't go the right way?
No, but the Hamilton campaign was trying to find 37 votes. I assume they made some calls to state electors.jamie said:
Can you show us when she called a state elector and demanded for them to find 11,000 votes?
“Democrats self righteous campaign against trump’s efforts to overthrow the 2020 election”….
Jack smith ain’t no bleeding heart liberal.
paulsurovell said:
Hillary and her supporters have said more than hundreds of times that Trump's victory was illegitimate:jamie said:
Can you cite the hundreds of times Hillary said she won and she's the president?
https://www.yahoo.com/video/hillary-clinton-maintains-2016-election-160716779.html
I don't see the point of another "debate" where completely dishonest talking points like this from years ago are resurrected.
paulsurovell said:
jamie said:
But that's only one part of the indictment - you make it sound as if that's his only issue - not sure what the purpose of inflating this whatabout is?
That's the part of the indictment I'm discussing.
Actually it's not part of the indictment at all. That's what makes this a dumb thread.
Jaytee said:
“Democrats self righteous campaign against trump’s efforts to overthrow the 2020 election”….
Jack smith ain’t no bleeding heart liberal.
and how is it "self-righteous" to prosecute a person trying to overthrow an election. Isn't that just the right thing to do legally?
It's a bizarre description of the events in question.
It appears to me that the one thing that's changed in the past seven years is that Paul seems to have become a lot more sympathetic toward the "plight" of Donald J. Trump.
ml1 said:
It appears to me that the one thing that's changed in the past seven years is that Paul seems to have become a lot more sympathetic toward the "plight" of Donald J. Trump.
The re-election of Biden will not help bring about "The Revolution". Only a second Trump Administration will inspire the masses to rise up.
Not just Trump -- a whole panoply of far right personalities. It's a perfect example of the horseshoe theory of politics. I don't even know that "right" and "left" even make sense as categories in that context, it's more about being opposed to the liberal democratic order (lower case "l", lower case "d").
Though, given how triggered people on the horseshoe fringe get by topics such as gender identity , I do wonder if there is a reactionary conservatism underlying it all.
PVW said:
Though, given how triggered people on the horseshoe fringe get by topics such as gender identity , I do wonder if there is a reactionary conservatism underlying it all.
Any social justice issue that isn't "purely" economics is of no interest to them. I believe that they think that those are distractions from what they argue is the only "true" issue.
Half of All G.O.P. Voters Wish Party Would Nominate Some Other Criminal Besides Trump
WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—Although Donald J. Trump holds a commanding lead over the rest of the Republican Presidential field, approximately half of all G.O.P. voters wish that their party would choose a different criminal, a new poll indicates.
“No disrespect to Donald Trump, who has been an amazing perpetrator,” Carol Foyler, a poll respondent who lives in Tempe, Arizona, said. “But it would be great to see a fresh crook in there.”
“When he was President, Trump committed crimes at an incredible rate,” Tracy Klugian, who resides in Columbus, Ohio, said. “But he’s older now, and I worry that he won’t be able to keep up that pace.”
“Don’t get me wrong, Donald Trump deserves major credit for all the laws he’s broken,” Harland Dorrinson, who lives in Springfield, Missouri, said. “But it’s time to pass the torch to a new generation of felons.”
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Paul please post your summary here. Show the fake elector scheme. Show the constant barrage by Hillary that the election will be stolen. And post her daily rants after the fact the she was actually elected.