Disrespect for police and police shootings - we are not getting closer to a solution

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/13/us/alabama-birmingham-police-detective-pistol-whipped/index.html

It is going to be a long effort to build trust between people of color and the police.

However, I stand by an observation I made a long time ago that if a police officer gives you an order, you need to comply, especially when the police officer is without backup.

tjohn said:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/13/us/alabama-birmingham-police-detective-pistol-whipped/index.html
It is going to be a long effort to build trust between people of color and the police.
However, I stand by an observation I made a long time ago that if a police officer gives you an order, you need to comply, especially when the police officer is without backup.

I would agree with you as long as it is a lawful order.

tjohn said:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/13/us/alabama-birmingham-police-detective-pistol-whipped/index.html
It is going to be a long effort to build trust between people of color and the police.
However, I stand by an observation I made a long time ago that if a police officer gives you an order, you need to comply, especially when the police officer is without backup.

You are assuming that the police are always following the rules and giving "orders," which I do not think is the case at all.

GGartrell said:

tjohn said:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/13/us/alabama-birmingham-police-detective-pistol-whipped/index.html
It is going to be a long effort to build trust between people of color and the police.
However, I stand by an observation I made a long time ago that if a police officer gives you an order, you need to comply, especially when the police officer is without backup.

I would agree with you as long as it is a lawful order.

I'd rather be alive to fight an unlawful order in court than dead. Of course, I'm a middle-aged white guy, so I have little to worry about in that respect.

relx said:

tjohn said:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/13/us/alabama-birmingham-police-detective-pistol-whipped/index.html
It is going to be a long effort to build trust between people of color and the police.
However, I stand by an observation I made a long time ago that if a police officer gives you an order, you need to comply, especially when the police officer is without backup.

You are assuming that the police are always following the rules and giving "orders," which I do not think is the case at all.

That's not at all what he's saying. See my previous post. Do you think you'll ever win an argument with a police officer on the side of the road?

ParticleMan said:

relx said:

tjohn said:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/13/us/alabama-birmingham-police-detective-pistol-whipped/index.html
It is going to be a long effort to build trust between people of color and the police.
However, I stand by an observation I made a long time ago that if a police officer gives you an order, you need to comply, especially when the police officer is without backup.

You are assuming that the police are always following the rules and giving "orders," which I do not think is the case at all.

That's not at all what he's saying. See my previous post. Do you think you'll ever win an argument with a police officer on the side of the road?

You are assuming that this article--which is told completely from the POV of the police--is accurate. I am not saying it isn't, but the police have been caught lying in so many instances in recent years that public trust in them is low.

I was on a jury about 15 years ago, made up of all kinds of people, male, female, black, white, conservative, liberal. A police officer testified during the trial, and when we were deliberating, one thing everyone agreed upon was that the police officer was probably lying. (He actually wasn't.) This was years ago, before all the recent issues, and still, nobody trusted the police.

ParticleMan said:

relx said:

tjohn said:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/13/us/alabama-birmingham-police-detective-pistol-whipped/index.html
It is going to be a long effort to build trust between people of color and the police.
However, I stand by an observation I made a long time ago that if a police officer gives you an order, you need to comply, especially when the police officer is without backup.

You are assuming that the police are always following the rules and giving "orders," which I do not think is the case at all.

That's not at all what he's saying. See my previous post. Do you think you'll ever win an argument with a police officer on the side of the road?

Doesn't have to be an "argument". In my experience most cops know what they are supposed to do and what they can get away with. When they know you know they may adjust their behavior. I'm not talking about situations where they are in obvious fear for their lives and have guns drawn but I have refused many "orders" from police officers during traffic stops and stop and frisk situations with little ill effects. That said its gone bad on a couple of occasions. You have to use common sense.

tjohn said:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/13/us/alabama-birmingham-police-detective-pistol-whipped/index.html
It is going to be a long effort to build trust between people of color and the police.
However, I stand by an observation I made a long time ago that if a police officer gives you an order, you need to comply, especially when the police officer is without backup.

I think a good first step is to stop acting as if people of color don't have enough sense to comply with the directions given by someone with a gun.

We do.

Assume that and then move along to step 2.

What would you recommend be done when you've complied and that is not enough?

Or

What would you recommend be done when those orders are harmful or clearly outside of the law?

This woman followed every order given to her and ended up naked at a gas station with a police officer's hand in her vagina:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/14/us/texas-woman-search/

I know what you're thinking, Oh My God. But at least she is alive to tell her story. You're right and that's good. Now take a moment and ask yourself if you'd agree to live this way for the rest of your life? Would you allow the country that you lived in to strip search, beat, rape, humiliate, assault or kill you whenever you traveled in your car? Would you agree to an environment in which any traffic violation real or imagined could lead to your death or the death of your wife, husband or child?

This young woman is traumatized; maybe for the rest of her life. She also asked several times if what was being requested was legal. She was told that it was. What do you think?

Additionally, it's become fashionable to characterize the problem as one requiring the Black community to "trust" law enforcement. I call bull*****. This is some Orwellian flip flop of reality- requiring the victim to make an adjustment to allow for unchecked subjugation.

I don't have to trust the cops any more than any white person has to "trust" the cops. My trust is not the issue or the problem. The problem is the cops and state sanctioned violence perpetrated on unarmed Black and brown people- period. I know my rights and I have common sense and no degree of "trust" on my part will prevent a police officer who does not respect those rights from abusing me if he thinks he can get away with it.