Cancel Culture

Smedley said:

ml1 said:

Smedley said:

27.2%, 36.8%, and 30.1% 

But seriously I have no idea -- that is an odd question and I don't see what would be the point of guesstimating.

exactly.

but somehow Bloomberg thinks he knows that it was a significant contributor.  I'll take a shot at guesstimating -- if the schools had not been closed for a very long time due to the pandemic, I'd guesstimate that the chances that renaming schools in SF would have led to a recall were probably in the vicinity of 0.000001%.  

People with a "cancel culture" ax to grind will tell us otherwise though.  Probably to try and distract us from the real cancelations going on in states trying to do away with teaching about race.

I don't think one needs to "have a 'cancel culture' ax to grind" to think the SF school board plan was just plain old friggin' ridiculous. At some point it just goes too far. 

 https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/28/us/san-francisco-school-name-debate.html

no, but suggesting it was a major factor in the SF recall is grinding that cancel culture ax.  Particularly if like Bloomberg, you tar all Democrats with the story.

Smedley said:

I don't think one needs to "have a 'cancel culture' ax to grind" to think the SF school board plan was just plain old friggin' ridiculous. At some point it just goes too far. 

 https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/28/us/san-francisco-school-name-debate.html

I know this was 2006 and in India, but is this cancel culture? https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/180246

ml1 said:

Smedley said:

ml1 said:

Smedley said:

27.2%, 36.8%, and 30.1% 

But seriously I have no idea -- that is an odd question and I don't see what would be the point of guesstimating.

exactly.

but somehow Bloomberg thinks he knows that it was a significant contributor.  I'll take a shot at guesstimating -- if the schools had not been closed for a very long time due to the pandemic, I'd guesstimate that the chances that renaming schools in SF would have led to a recall were probably in the vicinity of 0.000001%.  

People with a "cancel culture" ax to grind will tell us otherwise though.  Probably to try and distract us from the real cancelations going on in states trying to do away with teaching about race.

I don't think one needs to "have a 'cancel culture' ax to grind" to think the SF school board plan was just plain old friggin' ridiculous. At some point it just goes too far. 

 https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/28/us/san-francisco-school-name-debate.html

no, but suggesting it was a major factor in the SF recall is grinding that cancel culture ax.  Particularly if like Bloomberg, you tar all Democrats with the story.

I don't think you can neatly separate out the 3 points Bloomy cites for individual analysis, as you seem keen to do. It's one story, and that one story reflects back on Democrat priorities. SF BoE is a no-show for parents who want schools to open in a reasonable timeframe, but the SF BoE shows up to rename 40+ schools. Biden pushes Build Back better while faltering on Covid and appearing clueless on inflation. 

Those priorities at the micro and macro level are what the left wants but it's not what the center wants, or the swing voters as Bloomy cites. That's why the poll numbers are what they are.  

Anyway, since we're talking SF I'll trot one of my hobby horses out for a quick round and note that in my opinion, the biggest failure of the left in SF isn't the school board, it's that they've allowed the city to get so expensive that I kind of wonder how many SF residents are even impacted by the decisions of the school board? SF (and the whole bay area, and CA in general) needs a lot more housing. 

Smedley said:

 Biden pushes Build Back better while faltering on Covid and appearing clueless on inflation. 

Smedley said:

I don't think you can neatly separate out the 3 points Bloomy cites for individual analysis, as you seem keen to do. It's one story, and that one story reflects back on Democrat priorities. SF BoE is a no-show for parents who want schools to open in a reasonable timeframe, but the SF BoE shows up to rename 40+ schools. Biden pushes Build Back better while faltering on Covid and appearing clueless on inflation. 

Those priorities at the micro and macro level are what the left wants but it's not what the center wants, or the swing voters as Bloomy cites. That's why the poll numbers are what they are.  

You actually are pretty convincing I have to admit. But probably not for the reasons you think. Almost all your comments are evidence of how people swallow anti-Democratic framing whole without question  

Why would anyone listen to the political analysis of someone who was such a spectacular failure running for President?

I’m not sure about this… in some ways it seems fair enough, in others it seems kinds odd.  I’ll check with my friends from India & Pakistan, and let you know by your Friday

ridski said:

I know this was 2006 and in India, but is this cancel culture? https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/180246

It makes for a good debate - thanks!

ml1 said:

Smedley said:

I don't think you can neatly separate out the 3 points Bloomy cites for individual analysis, as you seem keen to do. It's one story, and that one story reflects back on Democrat priorities. SF BoE is a no-show for parents who want schools to open in a reasonable timeframe, but the SF BoE shows up to rename 40+ schools. Biden pushes Build Back better while faltering on Covid and appearing clueless on inflation. 

Those priorities at the micro and macro level are what the left wants but it's not what the center wants, or the swing voters as Bloomy cites. That's why the poll numbers are what they are.  

You actually are pretty convincing I have to admit. But probably not for the reasons you think. Almost all your comments are evidence of how people swallow anti-Democratic framing whole without question  

Well at any rate. I agree with Bloomy that given the currently grim-for-Dems polls <9 months before the midterms, the party needs to make changes to not get blown out of the water in November. I would think that would be a non-controversial, common-sense perspective, but I guess it's not.   

I think some Dem Govs recently lifting mask mandates in schools was a start to at least acknowledging the direction of the electoral winds. Hopefully there's more of that to come. 

It seems your strategy would be "let's just double down on everything, but step up educating people on anti-Democratic framing." 

Smedley said:

ml1 said:

Smedley said:

I don't think you can neatly separate out the 3 points Bloomy cites for individual analysis, as you seem keen to do. It's one story, and that one story reflects back on Democrat priorities. SF BoE is a no-show for parents who want schools to open in a reasonable timeframe, but the SF BoE shows up to rename 40+ schools. Biden pushes Build Back better while faltering on Covid and appearing clueless on inflation. 

Those priorities at the micro and macro level are what the left wants but it's not what the center wants, or the swing voters as Bloomy cites. That's why the poll numbers are what they are.  

You actually are pretty convincing I have to admit. But probably not for the reasons you think. Almost all your comments are evidence of how people swallow anti-Democratic framing whole without question  

Well at any rate. I agree with Bloomy that given the currently grim-for-Dems polls <9 months before the midterms, the party needs to make changes to not get blown out of the water in November. I would think that would be a non-controversial, common-sense perspective, but I guess it's not.   

I think some Dem Govs recently lifting mask mandates in schools was a start to at least acknowledging the direction of the electoral winds. Hopefully there's more of that to come. 

It seems your strategy would be "let's just double down on everything, but step up educating people on anti-Democratic framing." 

one good strategy would be to tie every Republican candidate to TFG, since virtually all of them will need to pledge loyalty to him.  As unpopular as Democrats might be at this moment, TFG is worse.

and best of all, reminding people of Republicans loyalty to TFG and the Big Lie has the advantage of being true.

I agree with that, though your "has the advantage of being true" kicker of course insinuates that criticism of Democratic leadership isn't true, oh no of course the good Democrats can't ever be sucky or need course correction. Biden said he doesn't believe the polls, maybe you can take that approach too. 

But back to our agreement, yes as I've said it would be the best thing ever for Democrats if Trump ran in 2024 because that election becomes all about Trump and the Big Lie which is perhaps the only way the Dems win back the center. However I don't think there's any real chance for that issue to be the deciding factor in the 2022 midterms.  

Smedley said:

I agree with that, though your "has the advantage of being true" kicker of course insinuates that criticism of Democratic leadership isn't true, oh no of course the good Democrats can't ever be sucky or need course correction. Biden said he doesn't believe the polls, maybe you can take that approach too. 

But back to our agreement, yes as I've said it would be the best thing ever for Democrats if Trump ran in 2024 because that election becomes all about Trump and the Big Lie which is perhaps the only way the Dems win back the center. However I don't think there's any real chance for that issue to be the deciding factor in the 2022 midterms.  

typically, the criticism of Democratic candidates is either completely false or exaggerated.  How many candidates are called "socialists" or "communists" or given some other label that isn't true?  Nearly all of them.

lazy pundits like to look at polls, or tell us that the party that holds the White House always gets wiped out in the midterm. But polls and history tell us only so much.  When has an ex-president ever been this unpopular, but held such sway over his party?  When did one of the two major parties support a violent coup attempt?

The redistricting didn't give the GOP the edge everyone expected, so Democrats are already ahead of where pundits thought they'd be at this time.  And Republicans are having a very hard time recruiting non-Trumpist candidates for Senate in states like MD.

Does this mean the Democrats will keep the House and Senate?  I don't know, but neither do you and neither do the pundits you listen to.  History can only tell us so much, and polls can only tell us so much.

In a perfect world, Democrats would have passed BBB and they'd have that achievement to run on.  And if they lose the House and Senate people like you will probably say it was because they were too "woke."  But more likely it will be because they will be seen as doing nothing for their base, and their voters will stay home on Election Day.

somehow these stories never seem to get the hype that a "Dems in disarray" or "bad news for Biden" story does.

GOP falters in effort to recruit star governors for Senate

ml1 said:

one good strategy would be to tie every Republican candidate to TFG, since virtually all of them will need to pledge loyalty to him.  As unpopular as Democrats might be at this moment, TFG is worse.

and best of all, reminding people of Republicans loyalty to TFG and the Big Lie has the advantage of being true.

Wasn't this the strategy in Virginia?  Didn't work out so well.

jimmurphy said:

Wasn't this the strategy in Virginia?  Didn't work out so well.

where voters already have buyers' remorse

Poll finds Youngkin underwater with Virginia voters, who veer to his left on major issues

ml1 said:

if they lose the House and Senate people like you will probably say it was because they were too "woke."  But more likely it will be because they will be seen as doing nothing for their base.

Again, the two are linked. They're not separate. Democrats ARE too "woke" according to people like me, but that wokeness in isolation is not a dealbreaker. What is a dealbreaker is if the "wokeness" is prioritized over doing things for their base. Like in SF, where the BoE fails to get kids back in school for an eternity while at the same time moving on their woke agenda. 

Or put another way, the Dems have lost voters at the critical kitchen tables of middle America. Voters at those kitchen tables want their 2019 lives back, with kids in school, and Covid and inflation under control. Voters at those kitchen tables don't give a crap about the offensive historical figure du jour. And they weren't clamoring for Build Back Better either. 

Priorities.   

Smedley said:

ml1 said:

if they lose the House and Senate people like you will probably say it was because they were too "woke."  But more likely it will be because they will be seen as doing nothing for their base.

Again, the two are linked. They're not separate. Democrats ARE too "woke" according to people like me, but that wokeness in isolation is not a dealbreaker. What is a dealbreaker is if the "wokeness" is prioritized over doing things for their base. Like in SF, where the BoE fails to get kids back in school for an eternity while at the same time moving on their woke agenda. 

Or put another way, the Dems have lost voters at the critical kitchen tables of middle America. Voters at those kitchen tables want their 2019 lives back, with kids in school, and Covid and inflation under control. Voters at those kitchen tables don't give a crap about the offensive historical figure du jour. And they weren't clamoring for Build Back Better either. 

Priorities.   

in what way are Democrats in the House and Senate prioritizing "wokeness" over anything else?

and speaking of pursuing a "cancel" agenda, how come you don't think something like this might turn off voters like yourself?  Or does this not bother you?

Republicans censure Cheney, Kinzinger, call Jan. 6 probe attack on 'legitimate political discourse'

Smedley said:

Again, the two are linked. They're not separate. Democrats ARE too "woke" according to people like me,

Oh FFS.

I'd like some examples of "too woke". Not from a school board but from influential people at the national level of Democratic politics.

Meanwhile, the Republicans are moving to ban contraception, but that doesn't appear to be "too" anything to warrant mentions by the MSM.

fwiw, I have a hard time respecting the opinions of anyone who uses the terms "woke" or "cancel culture" not ironically.  To a great extent it signifies either partisan hackery or gullibility.

ml1 said:

fwiw, I have a hard time respecting the opinions of anyone who uses the terms "woke" or "cancel culture" not ironically.  To a great extent it signifies either partisan hackery or gullibility.

My point exactly. Hence my question about the Hitler's Cross Cafe. 

drummerboy said:

Meanwhile, the Republicans are moving to ban contraception, but that doesn't appear to be "too" anything to warrant mentions by the MSM.

They’re moving to ban contraception? Based on a floor speech opposing a proposed amendment that “would create a division of the Florida Department of Health to provide hormonal long-acting reversible contraception to women in the state”? (That description came from an article on the website of WFLA, an MSM news outlet in Tampa.)

DaveSchmidt said:

drummerboy said:

Meanwhile, the Republicans are moving to ban contraception, but that doesn't appear to be "too" anything to warrant mentions by the MSM.

They’re moving to ban contraception? Based on a floor speech opposing a proposed amendment that “would create a division of the Florida Department of Health to provide hormonal long-acting reversible contraception to women in the state”? (That description came from an article on the website of WFLA, an MSM news outlet in Tampa.)

boy are you going to be surprised when they overturn Griswold.

ml1 said:

and speaking of pursuing a "cancel" agenda, how come you don't think something like this might turn off voters like yourself?  Or does this not bother you?

Republicans censure Cheney, Kinzinger, call Jan. 6 probe attack on 'legitimate political discourse'

I've stated my opinions about Trump's post-election behavior, and Jan. 6 specifically, many times. So you asking "does this not bother you?" is disingenuous. 

It's possible to be bothered by this and at the same time disapprove of Pres. Biden and the Democrats. 

Smedley said:

ml1 said:

and speaking of pursuing a "cancel" agenda, how come you don't think something like this might turn off voters like yourself?  Or does this not bother you?

Republicans censure Cheney, Kinzinger, call Jan. 6 probe attack on 'legitimate political discourse'

I've stated my opinions about Trump's post-election behavior, and Jan. 6 specifically, many times. So you asking "does this not bother you?" is disingenuous. 

It's possible to be bothered by this and at the same time disapprove of Pres. Biden and the Democrats. 

Oh FFS.

Smedley said:

Again, the two are linked. They're not separate. Democrats ARE too "woke" according to people like me, ...

"Too woke" is a relative measure.

ml1 said:

in what way are Democrats in the House and Senate prioritizing "wokeness" over anything else?

Don't ask for details like that.

nohero said:

Smedley said:

Again, the two are linked. They're not separate. Democrats ARE too "woke" according to people like me, ...

"Too woke" is a relative measure.

even then, he can't define it, but he knows it's true.

ml1 said:

where voters already have buyers' remorse

Poll finds Youngkin underwater with Virginia voters, who veer to his left on major issues

That's kinda irrelevant. It's about election strategy, not governing strategy.