Cancel Culture
terp said:
Care to explain how PB&J is racist?
I don't know. Did she actually share the argument or just the headline?
one good thing has come out of this. Bari Weiss resigned from the Times. woohoo! Maybe Bret Bedbug will follow.
https://www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter
terp said:
ml1 said:
terp said:
Those are actual articles that TM captured in that thread. There are about 80 of them.
But your reply is perfect. "She is a racism denier!"
that wasn't my response.
She is taking headlines and reducing whatever is being discussed in the articles to single words to make the ideas seem absurd. So yes, she's mocking the notion that there might be racism inherent in places where it may not have occurred to people.
Care to explain how PB&J is racist?
It's not.
But there are people who tell a "fake news" story about a school declaring that PB&J is racist, and that becomes a headline, and then that becomes the basis for a post on a twitter thread like the one cited, and that becomes the basis for a post on a message board where someone asks, "Care to explain how PB&J is racist", as if that makes an actual point.
terp said:
The idea of the parody account is to take it just a bit further than the woke left to illustrate the absurdity. Often, she is just a few months ahead of the curve. One of the 80 articles featured a ny times article about Mary Poppins with soot on her face. As a joke TM pointed this out as problematic. About 6 months later the ny times ran an article making the same point and used the same picture.
no one would ever argue that there isn't some absurd stuff out there. But this person lumps in a whole bunch of stuff that may or may not be worth discussing (we don't know because she only posts headlines and then ridicules them).
but let's take the Simpsons example. In an entertainment industry that doesn't have an abundance of work for actors of color, is it just being silly and "woke" for the program to pledge to use non-white voice actors to play non-white animated characters, or is it trying to address a real issue of discrimination in entertainment? I don't have an answer at this moment because I haven't looked into what the Simpsons' producers are doing. But I am certain that the issue deserves more than ridicule.
So this "parody" person manages to collect dozens and dozens of examples of what you consider silly "wokeness" by including many example of stories that address a serious point if she would choose to engae with it instead of dismissing it.
drummerboy said:
one good thing has come out of this. Bari Weiss resigned from the Times. woohoo! Maybe Bret Bedbug will follow.
good riddance. One of the worst offenders for trying to pass off anecdotes as data.
drummerboy said:
one good thing has come out of this. Bari Weiss resigned from the Times. woohoo! Maybe Bret Bedbug will follow.
I have no idea who she is, so I googled her. It seems the most well-read piece she ever wrote was her resignation letter.
terp said:
ml1 said:
terp said:
Those are actual articles that TM captured in that thread. There are about 80 of them.
But your reply is perfect. "She is a racism denier!"
that wasn't my response.
She is taking headlines and reducing whatever is being discussed in the articles to single words to make the ideas seem absurd. So yes, she's mocking the notion that there might be racism inherent in places where it may not have occurred to people.
Care to explain how PB&J is racist?
Did anyone actually call PB&J racist (apart from the attack trolls, like you), or were they simply making a point about white privilege? I assume you've read the details on this. Do you really not understand the reasoning behind her point?
Do you not believe that white privilege exists?
Anyway, was there any action taken on this? Were PB&J sandwiches banned? Or is it a big nothing burger?
Every example you bring up to prove your point just digs your hole deeper.
ml1 said:
Red_Barchetta said:
Well I can't, but that's just me. I also can't imagine any scenario where a video in support of Biden contained hatred, misogyny, or racism. I can imagine plenty of such videos in support of Trump.
I think people's BS meters should be going off the charts regarding the young woman's retelling of that story. The notion that a Catholic university would be thinking of rescinding her acceptance simply because she is saying she's a Trump 2020 supporter seems really dubious. Given what's in her telling of the story, it wouldn't be surprising that she's made an awful lot of bigoted statements about immigrants. But who knows? All we know is her side of the story, which is almost certainly being related in a self-serving light.
I think you should be open to the fact that you may be biased. If she made a lot of bigoted statements then why didn't they rescind? There was an online movement to have her admission revoked. Part of Marquettes stated reason for speaking with her is that they feared for her safety. I can't find any evidence that she "made an awful lot of bigoted statements". Can you? Anyway, if she did I'm sure nohero would have dug them up by now ;-)
basil said:
drummerboy said:
one good thing has come out of this. Bari Weiss resigned from the Times. woohoo! Maybe Bret Bedbug will follow.
I have no idea who she is, so I googled her. It seems the most well-read piece she ever wrote was her resignation letter.
A while back there was a thread discussing the Evergreen college incident involving Brett Weinstein and everyone seemed to think it was an anecdote and an anomaly and asserting that Weinstein was a racist. Anyways, I pointed put that the corporate press wasn't covering this at all. The contrary evidence was Bari's opinion piece in the Times.
drummerboy said:
terp said:
ml1 said:
terp said:
Those are actual articles that TM captured in that thread. There are about 80 of them.
But your reply is perfect. "She is a racism denier!"
that wasn't my response.
She is taking headlines and reducing whatever is being discussed in the articles to single words to make the ideas seem absurd. So yes, she's mocking the notion that there might be racism inherent in places where it may not have occurred to people.
Care to explain how PB&J is racist?
Did anyone actually call PB&J racist (apart from the attack trolls, like you), or were they simply making a point about white privilege? I assume you've read the details on this. Do you really not understand the reasoning behind her point?
Do you not believe that white privilege exists?
Anyway, was there any action taken on this? Were PB&J sandwiches banned? Or is it a big nothing burger?
Every example you bring up to prove your point just digs your hole deeper.
It was one of the articles cited in the Titania twitter thread. I believe the idea was that the articles actually showed examples of extreme racism and white supremacy, and she was just making light of it.
BTW: I'm pretty sure the PB&J is racist thing started as a 4chan prank and people ran with it.
ml1 said:
drummerboy said:
one good thing has come out of this. Bari Weiss resigned from the Times. woohoo! Maybe Bret Bedbug will follow.
good riddance. One of the worst offenders for trying to pass off anecdotes as data.
Interesting takes in the context of this thread.
ml1 said:
terp said:
The idea of the parody account is to take it just a bit further than the woke left to illustrate the absurdity. Often, she is just a few months ahead of the curve. One of the 80 articles featured a ny times article about Mary Poppins with soot on her face. As a joke TM pointed this out as problematic. About 6 months later the ny times ran an article making the same point and used the same picture.
no one would ever argue that there isn't some absurd stuff out there. But this person lumps in a whole bunch of stuff that may or may not be worth discussing (we don't know because she only posts headlines and then ridicules them).
but let's take the Simpsons example. In an entertainment industry that doesn't have an abundance of work for actors of color, is it just being silly and "woke" for the program to pledge to use non-white voice actors to play non-white animated characters, or is it trying to address a real issue of discrimination in entertainment? I don't have an answer at this moment because I haven't looked into what the Simpsons' producers are doing. But I am certain that the issue deserves more than ridicule.
So this "parody" person manages to collect dozens and dozens of examples of what you consider silly "wokeness" by including many example of stories that address a serious point if she would choose to engae with it instead of dismissing it.
Its called satire.
ridski said:
terp said:
Basil would be surprised to know that his icon is a symbol of racism.
Who, Major Gowen?
I assumed it was because he brought up the war.
terp said:
I think you should be open to the fact that you may be biased. If she made a lot of bigoted statements then why didn't they rescind? There was an online movement to have her admission revoked. Part of Marquettes stated reason for speaking with her is that they feared for her safety. I can't find any evidence that she "made an awful lot of bigoted statements". Can you? Anyway, if she did I'm sure nohero would have dug them up by now ;-)
all I know for sure are two things. The source of the story is the student and her admission was not revoked.
terp said:
Interesting takes in the context of this thread.
she wasn't "canceled." She resigned. So not that relevant to the context of this thread.
ml1 said:
terp said:
I think you should be open to the fact that you may be biased. If she made a lot of bigoted statements then why didn't they rescind? There was an online movement to have her admission revoked. Part of Marquettes stated reason for speaking with her is that they feared for her safety. I can't find any evidence that she "made an awful lot of bigoted statements". Can you? Anyway, if she did I'm sure nohero would have dug them up by now ;-)
all I know for sure are two things. The source of the story is the student and her admission was not revoked.
That is factually incorrect. The school made a statement and her social media accounts are there for the world to see,
ml1 said:
terp said:
Its called satire.
it's not very good satire then.
It is $$. Always just a bit ahead of them
ml1 said:
terp said:
Interesting takes in the context of this thread.
she wasn't "canceled." She resigned. So not that relevant to the context of this thread.
You are whistling past the graveyard. You are happy that someone you disagree with is leaving the paper. And she claims she was harassed. I'm going to guess you don't believe her.
I've got to give it to the woke left. Why try to win the war of ideas when you can smite your enemies? That's some old testament ****!
I just now read the Times piece on Mary Poppins. It was informative.
terp said:
drummerboy said:
terp said:
ml1 said:
terp said:
Those are actual articles that TM captured in that thread. There are about 80 of them.
But your reply is perfect. "She is a racism denier!"
that wasn't my response.
She is taking headlines and reducing whatever is being discussed in the articles to single words to make the ideas seem absurd. So yes, she's mocking the notion that there might be racism inherent in places where it may not have occurred to people.
Care to explain how PB&J is racist?
Did anyone actually call PB&J racist (apart from the attack trolls, like you), or were they simply making a point about white privilege? I assume you've read the details on this. Do you really not understand the reasoning behind her point?
Do you not believe that white privilege exists?
Anyway, was there any action taken on this? Were PB&J sandwiches banned? Or is it a big nothing burger?
Every example you bring up to prove your point just digs your hole deeper.
It was one of the articles cited in the Titania twitter thread. I believe the idea was that the articles actually showed examples of extreme racism and white supremacy, and she was just making light of it.
BTW: I'm pretty sure the PB&J is racist thing started as a 4chan prank and people ran with it.
no, it was not a 4chan prank.
terp said:
You are whistling past the graveyard. You are happy that someone you disagree with is leaving the paper. And she claims she was harassed. I'm going to guess you don't believe her.
I've got to give it to the woke left. Why try to win the war of ideas when you can smite your enemies? That's some old testament ****!
She's not being silenced. She'll just go someplace else. But she won't have the imprimatur of being a columnist at the "liberal" NY Times. I don't want her to be silenced. But I also don't think she should get to wear a cloak that suggests she represents something that she doesn't. So good riddance from the NYT.
terp said:
That is factually incorrect. The school made a statement and her social media accounts are there for the world to see,
The school made a statement that they had a conversation. They did not disclose the content of the conversation.
Conservatives seem very pro-shaming and pro-punishment (that'll teach 'em!), up until it happens to them.
And then it mostly it doesn't teach 'em, does it? The response often includes denials, or raging about the shaming/punishment and wanting revenge.
Maybe this can encourage a large-scale switch to restorative practices?
terp said:
I assumed it was because he brought up the war.
No, it’s because Major Gowen spends some time at the beginning of the show going on about n******* and w*** and THEN says we should never trust the Germans, which Basil agrees to.
ml1 said:
terp said:
That is factually incorrect. The school made a statement and her social media accounts are there for the world to see,
The school made a statement that they had a conversation. They did not disclose the content of the conversation.
Here is what the school said.
Marquette University’s admissions decisions are made based on academic achievements and student involvement, not political views. Information circulating today from a blog that Marquette might rescind the admission of incoming freshman Samantha Pfefferle is false. Marquette has not rescinded her admissions offer.
Concerns about this new student that were brought to the university’s attention were not based on political affiliation but on alleged use of discriminatory language. In this case, there were also concerns for the incoming student’s safety, which were investigated by the Marquette University Police Department and discussed with the incoming student.
By their very nature, institutions of higher education are places of public dialogue and vigorous discourse about the most compelling issues of the day. The 500-year-old tradition of Catholic, Jesuit education is grounded in the discovery of knowledge and the sharing of diverse viewpoints – political or otherwise. Marquette takes this responsibility very seriously and prides itself on teaching our students how to think, not what to think. Through university-sponsored events, student organizations and myriad opportunities for engagement, diverse viewpoints from across the political spectrum are shared regularly with opportunity for discussion and the airing of a variety of viewpoints.
As a Catholic, Jesuit institution, Marquette remains committed to a transformational education, one that seeks to form and inform students so they can transform the world around us. This is accomplished through research, scholarship, service learning and, above all, the way we educate our students to be men and women for and with others
emphasis mine. The email template that was created to request Marquette to rescind her admission mentions her "xenophobic opinions". Considering there is no evidence of this and they didn't quote any of her social media posts and given the fact that there doesn't seem to be any evidence that she posted any of these opinions online: I think its likely that they assume she holds those positions based on the fact that she supports Trump.
ml1 said:
terp said:
You are whistling past the graveyard. You are happy that someone you disagree with is leaving the paper. And she claims she was harassed. I'm going to guess you don't believe her.
I've got to give it to the woke left. Why try to win the war of ideas when you can smite your enemies? That's some old testament ****!
She's not being silenced. She'll just go someplace else. But she won't have the imprimatur of being a columnist at the "liberal" NY Times. I don't want her to be silenced. But I also don't think she should get to wear a cloak that suggests she represents something that she doesn't. So good riddance from the NYT.
She decided to leave the Cathedral prior to her excommunication. It's clear that you are happy in your perception that someone you disagree with will likely have less clout in certain circles. That is problematic enough given the context of this thread. As the point of cancel culture, if such a thing exists, is to repress opinions we don't like and thus control the narrative. In this way, not only are opinions not discussed, but often entire topics are never brought up. Some think the Cathedral is constructed specifically to those ends.
All that being said, I'm surprised you are comfortable with the below(from the Weiss letter):
My own forays into Wrongthink have made me the subject of constant bullying by colleagues who disagree with my views. They have called me a Nazi and a racist; I have learned to brush off comments about how I’m “writing about the Jews again.” Several colleagues perceived to be friendly with me were badgered by coworkers. My work and my character are openly demeaned on company-wide Slack channels where masthead editors regularly weigh in. There, some coworkers insist I need to be rooted out if this company is to be a truly “inclusive” one, while others post ax emojis next to my name. Still other New York Times employees publicly smear me as a liar and a bigot on Twitter with no fear that harassing me will be met with appropriate action. They never are.
There are terms for all of this: unlawful discrimination, hostile work environment, and constructive discharge. I’m no legal expert. But I know that this is wrong.
terp said:
ml1 said:
terp said:
You are whistling past the graveyard. You are happy that someone you disagree with is leaving the paper. And she claims she was harassed. I'm going to guess you don't believe her.
I've got to give it to the woke left. Why try to win the war of ideas when you can smite your enemies? That's some old testament ****!
She's not being silenced. She'll just go someplace else. But she won't have the imprimatur of being a columnist at the "liberal" NY Times. I don't want her to be silenced. But I also don't think she should get to wear a cloak that suggests she represents something that she doesn't. So good riddance from the NYT.
She decided to leave the Cathedral prior to her excommunication. It's clear that you are happy in your perception that someone you disagree with will likely have less clout in certain circles. That is problematic enough given the context of this thread. As the point of cancel culture, if such a thing exists, is to repress opinions we don't like and thus control the narrative. In this way, not only are opinions not discussed, but often entire topics are never brought up. Some think the Cathedral is constructed specifically to those ends.
All that being said, I'm surprised you are comfortable with the below(from the Weiss letter):
My own forays into Wrongthink have made me the subject of constant bullying by colleagues who disagree with my views. They have called me a Nazi and a racist; I have learned to brush off comments about how I’m “writing about the Jews again.” Several colleagues perceived to be friendly with me were badgered by coworkers. My work and my character are openly demeaned on company-wide Slack channels where masthead editors regularly weigh in. There, some coworkers insist I need to be rooted out if this company is to be a truly “inclusive” one, while others post ax emojis next to my name. Still other New York Times employees publicly smear me as a liar and a bigot on Twitter with no fear that harassing me will be met with appropriate action. They never are.
There are terms for all of this: unlawful discrimination, hostile work environment, and constructive discharge. I’m no legal expert. But I know that this is wrong.
I wasn't aware of her claims of harassment when I first responded, and if they're true, no I'm not comfortable with it, and it probably bears an investigation. Of course Weiss has a long history of describing harsh but valid criticism of her on social media as abuse. And being a martyr to the left wing mobs is a big part of her personal brand.
And I'm not glad to see her leave the NYT because I don't agree with her POV. I'm glad to see her go because of what I mentioned earlier. She's one of the most prominent purveyors of the anecdote as data. She is intellectually lazy and frankly pretty tiresome, writing versions of the same column over and over. As far as I'm concerned hack columnists shouldn't get to keep their jobs out of some notion of affirmative action for alternative points of view. Sure, publish POVs I don't agree with, but hire someone with more intellectual heft than a person whose main role is trolling the libs.
ridski said:
terp said:
I assumed it was because he brought up the war.
No, it’s because Major Gowen spends some time at the beginning of the show going on about n******* and w*** and THEN says we should never trust the Germans, which Basil agrees to.
Don't talk about the facts. That always ruins someone's rant if you do that.
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The idea of the parody account is to take it just a bit further than the woke left to illustrate the absurdity. Often, she is just a few months ahead of the curve. One of the 80 articles featured a ny times article about Mary Poppins with soot on her face. As a joke TM pointed this out as problematic. About 6 months later the ny times ran an article making the same point and used the same picture.