Aftermath - the 2021 elections

mrincredible said:

Out of curiosity where are you following the numbers?

 NY Times updates every time a new tally is added.


Smedley said:

I think there's little hope for the Democrats to shift the tide anytime soon, BBB passing or not. Biden was always going to be just a placeholder presidency and at this point I think he's running on fumes. That is an albacore around the neck of any Dem candidate. I've said this before, I think the base case is that he muddles through and in early '23 announces he won't run for a second term. That will energize the party by  enabling it to look toward the future. Until then it will be a slog or worse.  

 it's albatross


mtierney said:

 OMG! I thought that  if you live long enough, there wouldn’t be spin cycles and shocking turn-arounds in what goes-around left to confound me!

I used similar “logic” back in 2016 and found no one else in MOLand  thought the decision was anything but evil. Five years later, folks here taunt me for having elected Trump all by myself. I believed, and still do, that voting for HRC would have been wrong - just vote for the party, forget the person? 

To be frank, I thought Mrs C had it in the bag. But something happened on the stump which derailed her long political ambition: breaking the glass ceiling of highest office in the land. She insulted Americans Aka Deplorables, ran a sloppy campaign, and I think no one wanted to have Bill back in the White House, anyway.

So, I voted for the guy I thought wouldn’t win!

A glass half full, is a glass half empty —

 I mean, if you want to try and make the case the Clinton would have been worse than a man who literally sent a mob of his supporters to attack Congress, I'd certainly like to hear it.


ml1 said:

 NY Times updates every time a new tally is added.

Thanks.

is it time to start debating what Democrat could take Biden's place on top of the ticket in 2024, should he choose to bow out? As a purely academic exercise? Because everything will be different in 2023 when the candidates start lining up.

I don't think this country will elect a woman of color (I would vote for VP Harris in a hot minute) given how the GOP was able to leverage racism to galvanize their base in Virginia. I'd love to be wrong about that.


drummerboy said:

Smedley said:

I think there's little hope for the Democrats to shift the tide anytime soon, BBB passing or not. Biden was always going to be just a placeholder presidency and at this point I think he's running on fumes. That is an albacore around the neck of any Dem candidate. I've said this before, I think the base case is that he muddles through and in early '23 announces he won't run for a second term. That will energize the party by  enabling it to look toward the future. Until then it will be a slog or worse.  

 it's albatross

It is albacore if you are fictional character Johnny Soprano.  See link to appropriate clip at 2:14.


tjohn said:

 Well, I think we can agree that HRC ran a lousy campaign.

 I also think we had a little more faith in the electorate that they wouldn't elect a known con-man.  T**** actually said "I love the poorly uneducated".


jamie said:

tjohn said:

 Well, I think we can agree that HRC ran a lousy campaign.

 I also think we had a little more faith in the electorate that they wouldn't elect a known con-man.  T**** actually said "I love the poorly uneducated".

 H.L. Mencken has a number of quotes I could use in response to this faith.

The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety. 

No one in this world, so far as I know - and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me - has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people.

The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.

https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/h-l-mencken-quotes


if we're talking Sopranos quotes, not many beat this one:



here's an example of the uphill battle Dems have to just get to a level playing field.

The other day CNN aired a laughably inaccurate report on inflation.

https://www.readthepresentage.com/p/cnn-spilled-milk-and-why-any-of-this

What are Dems supposed to do when the supposedly legitimate media puts out this kind of crap?


mtierney said:

A real life Jersey story here…

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/11/04/ed-durr-defeats-steve-sweeney-519502

 Steve Sweeney going down is one thing that can unite the Trumpers and thr progressives. 

Sweeney is. The. Worst. 


ml1 said:

 Steve Sweeney going down is one thing that can unite the Trumpers and thr progressives. 

Thing #2 - CNN, NYT and the rest of the evil MSM. 

There’s hope for you, db and mtierney to reinstate the gift exchange this holiday season. 


Also a bunch of retreats of QANON-tagged posts.


mrincredible said:

Also a bunch of retreats of QANON-tagged posts.

 I obviously don't think it's great that a racist conspiracy theorist won election, but how much power and influence does one person in a state legislature have? Sweeney was pretty terrible, and if the trade-off for getting rid of him is having a crazy person of limited influence serving a term in Trenton, am I completely out of line for thinking that might be ok? Or am I underestimating the damage an inexperienced first term state senator can do?


PVW said:

 I obviously don't think it's great that a racist conspiracy theorist won election, but how much power and influence does one person in a state legislature have? Sweeney was pretty terrible, and if the trade-off for getting rid of him is having a crazy person of limited influence serving a term in Trenton, am I completely out of line for thinking that might be ok? Or am I underestimating the damage an inexperienced first term state senator can do?

 Sweeney controlled the agenda. His GOP replacement will be someone other GOP legislators try not to be seen talking to.


This is where Democrats are missing the boat.  Sweeney is preferable to a Republican if you have any interest at all in implementing anything Murphy wants.  And I agree with the argument that having Sweeney push Murphy more towards the center was a good thing.  New jersey and the nation are rather far removed from the political views of some who contribute on MOL.


Smedley said:

ml1 said:

 Steve Sweeney going down is one thing that can unite the Trumpers and thr progressives. 

Thing #2 - CNN, NYT and the rest of the evil MSM. 

There’s hope for you, db and mtierney to reinstate the gift exchange this holiday season. 

 nuance is really lost on you, isn't it?


tjohn said:

This is where Democrats are missing the boat.  Sweeney is preferable to a Republican if you have any interest at all in implementing anything Murphy wants.  And I agree with the argument that having Sweeney push Murphy more towards the center was a good thing.  New jersey and the nation are rather far removed from the political views of some who contribute on MOL.

 If the Democrats still have the majority, they can afford to lose one seat.  And Sweeney has been the worst sort of machine politician.  He hasn't been representing the people of NJ as much as he's been representing George Norcross.  Good riddance.


ml1 said:

tjohn said:

This is where Democrats are missing the boat.  Sweeney is preferable to a Republican if you have any interest at all in implementing anything Murphy wants.  And I agree with the argument that having Sweeney push Murphy more towards the center was a good thing.  New jersey and the nation are rather far removed from the political views of some who contribute on MOL.

 If the Democrats still have the majority, they can afford to lose one seat.  And Sweeney has been the worst sort of machine politician.  He hasn't been representing the people of NJ as much as he's been representing George Norcross.  Good riddance.

I guess it depends why he lost.  If his district is just tired of machine politics, then fine.  If it represents a shift in support for Democratic policies, then Democrats should be concerned.


Quick with the ad hominem - totally not there with any defense of the MSM.

Smedley said:

ml1 said:

 Steve Sweeney going down is one thing that can unite the Trumpers and thr progressives. 

Thing #2 - CNN, NYT and the rest of the evil MSM. 

There’s hope for you, db and mtierney to reinstate the gift exchange this holiday season. 

 


tjohn said:

ml1 said:

tjohn said:

This is where Democrats are missing the boat.  Sweeney is preferable to a Republican if you have any interest at all in implementing anything Murphy wants.  And I agree with the argument that having Sweeney push Murphy more towards the center was a good thing.  New jersey and the nation are rather far removed from the political views of some who contribute on MOL.

 If the Democrats still have the majority, they can afford to lose one seat.  And Sweeney has been the worst sort of machine politician.  He hasn't been representing the people of NJ as much as he's been representing George Norcross.  Good riddance.

I guess it depends why he lost.  If his district is just tired of machine politics, then fine.  If it represents a shift in support for Democratic policies, then Democrats should be concerned.

 they can be concerned but still happy he lost. Sweeney was the worst.


ml1 said:

Smedley said:

ml1 said:

 Steve Sweeney going down is one thing that can unite the Trumpers and thr progressives. 

Thing #2 - CNN, NYT and the rest of the evil MSM. 

There’s hope for you, db and mtierney to reinstate the gift exchange this holiday season. 

 nuance is really lost on you, isn't it?

 db continually rails on the unfairness of CNN and NYT coverage (and you often back him up). 

Trumpers continually rail on the unfairness of CNN and NYT coverage.

Strange bedfellows perhaps, but it is what it is. 

What "nuance" am I missing?


Apparently the answer to the question of what do we do in the aftermath of the 2021 elections is bicker amongst ourselves. I understand the instinct but we have to get the team together before next year. The danger of losing the House is already too high on a national level. We need to keep the NJ Democratic House caucus intact. I don't know how redistricting will affect that, but Malinowski was a tight race last year, for instance. 


Smedley said:

ml1 said:

Smedley said:

ml1 said:

 Steve Sweeney going down is one thing that can unite the Trumpers and thr progressives. 

Thing #2 - CNN, NYT and the rest of the evil MSM. 

There’s hope for you, db and mtierney to reinstate the gift exchange this holiday season. 

 nuance is really lost on you, isn't it?

 db continually rails on the unfairness of CNN and NYT coverage (and you often back him up). 

Trumpers continually rail on the unfairness of CNN and NYT coverage.

Strange bedfellows perhaps, but it is what it is. 

What "nuance" am I missing?

 all of it.


Ah, the old mysterious and undisclosed "nuance" argument. Weak. 

Do CNN and NYT suck or not? You've been saying they do for a while now. And it's established that Trumpers think they do. Hence, strange bedfellows. 

If you've changed your mind and you think CNN and NYT are okay, you can say so. 


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