Over 1,000,000 People have Already Gotten a Third Vaccine Shot
The U.S. should approve the third shot for the elderly.
The old are also immune compromised. That can be seen by the COVID death rate being 3 1/2 times higher for seniors vs for the young. Other examples abound such as the lowered efficacy of senior flu shots Which is why they created a higher dose flu vaccine for the elderly).
And I don't need to listen to excuses that we need to test more or we're not sure how well that third shot (the second booster) will help.
So what if we find the third shot isn't that helpful. At least we tried. We don't lose anything by trying. We do lose if we find it helpful but we don't give it.
Aging:
Cellular senescence.
Genetic methylation.
Telomeric degradation.
Transcription errors.
Ruocchio, Christopher. Demon in White (Sun Eater) (p. 496). DAW. Kindle Edition.
While line-jumping is never desired, there are also unused vaccines on the shelves expiring and going to waste, and over a million people have taken matters into their own hands. I'm not sure how people could even get a third dose. I know when I got my first two of Moderna, I had to supply identification and was entered into a database. Is getting a third dose ethical and appropriate, and if so, how does one do it?
Its ethical to get your third shot provided you don't deny someone else. Its certainly more appropriate than wasting vaccines into expiration.
Why should you or anyone wait for "approval" from the CDC or WHO when other countries have said its OK? Do anyone think the French, Israelis or Germans are stupid?
I'm no longer impressed by the CDC. It was considered the worlds gold standard. Now its thought of as tarnished brass. Many capable have left the CDC. Muddled messaging, confusion. Its a toxic culture of CYA political bureaucrats. I know its leadership is changing under Biden but its takes a lots of effort to change culture.
As long as there is no shortage for those getting their1st and 2nd shots, I have no problem with "unofficial" third shots. Anything that might help reign this thing in is welcome.
bub said:
As long as there is no shortage for those getting their1st and 2nd shots, I have no problem with "unofficial" third shots. Anything that might help reign this thing in is welcome.
My impression is that everyone who meets the age requirements in the U.S. and wants or wanted to get vaccinated, could have done so by now without any issues.
If we are sitting on expiring inventories why not give third shots to those people that may benefit?
Well, if I should decide to go ahead with a third shot, after considerably more consideration, what would be the steps? NJ has my name and lists two shots in their system, and you are supposed to bring ID. They also ask a lot of questions I believe, as well.
Jasmo said:
Well, if I should decide to go ahead with a third shot, after considerably more consideration, what would be the steps? NJ has my name and lists two shots in their system, and you are supposed to bring ID. They also ask a lot of questions I believe, as well.
I don't think NJ is offering third shots.
there are ways to go for a shot without ID. they can't refuse if you don't have ID. BUT, unless you are compromised you really have to consider the ramifications. One of the drug companies (at least) is working on a Delta specific dose...if you get a 3rd original dose and the Delta dose becomes available, now you are talking about 4 doses.
i just thought of another really bad idea that I don't want to post, that would get people 3rd shots....
Studies and at least some of the vax makers claim that a 3d shot greatly boosts immunity, based on lab studies i guess, but what that means in actual practice vs. variants is unknown - i guess we'll soon have stats from Israel - and whether it's much smarter to wait for a variant-tailored booster is unknown. If the CDC okayed it, I'd take a third shot of the existing vac right now. I was fully vaxxed in January so I'm particularly concerned about whether the vacs are fading.
Essex County has just announced that the County will begin offering booster shots to immunocompromised residents of the County.
joan_crystal said:
Essex County has just announced that the County will begin offering booster shots to immunocompromised residents of the County.
Joan beat me to it. I just got the email from Joe D.
Essex County Executive Divincenzo Announces COVID-19 Booster Shot Availability for Immunocompromised Residents
Essex County Executive Joseph N. DiVincenzo, Jr. announced that the CDC and FDA are recommending that residents with compromised immune systems receive a third dose, or booster shot, of the Moderna or Pfizer vaccines. The County Executive said that Essex County will administer the booster shots by appointment only beginning tomorrow, August 14th at its vaccination centers at Kmart in West Orange and Essex County College in Newark. According to the CDC and FDA, people are considered to have a compromised immune system if they are fighting a disease, undergoing medical treatments or have received an organ transplant.
Booster Shots will be Available at Kmart and Essex County College.
Appointments can be made at EssexCOVID.org or by calling 973-877-8456.
“Getting vaccinated is the best choice we all can make to keep our families safe and prevent the spread of the Coronavirus, and we encourage everyone to get their shots,” DiVincenzo said. “Essex County has been administering vaccines since December 2020 and we are prepared to administer the booster shots. Just like our original vaccination process, we will administer booster shots by appointment only and we are committed to making getting a booster shot as easy and efficient as possible,” he added.
To accommodate the administration of the booster shots, the hours of operation at the Essex County Vaccination Centers at Kmart and Essex County College are being expanded to six days a week from Mondays to Saturdays. The centers will be open from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. each day. Kmart is located at 235 Prospect Avenue in West Orange; Essex County College is located at 177 West Market Street in Newark.
Booster shots WILL NOT be available at the mobile clinics or pop-up sites organized by Essex County.
Essex County opened its vaccination centers on December 26, 2020, and was the first county in New Jersey to open a vaccination center. Since then, it has administered 184,910 first doses of Moderna, 181,402 second doses of Moderna, 7,217 first doses of Pfizer, 5,559 second doses of Pfizer and 15,903 doses of J&J vaccines.
I am not immunocompromised, nor am I elderly. I would get a third shot if it’s possible some day, and if it were recommended scientifically. However, I cannot be the only one who would dread the thought of another lost 2-3 days with the potential resulting side effects. (Mine only lasted maybe 50 hours, but they were not pleasant.)
yahooyahoo said:
My impression is that everyone who meets the age requirements in the U.S. and wants or wanted to get vaccinated, could have done so by now without any issues.
If we are sitting on expiring inventories why not give third shots to those people that may benefit?
I'd like to see as much vaccine as possible given to residents of other countries. It's more important to get first and second shots to those who need them and want them.
DanDietrich said:
yahooyahoo said:
My impression is that everyone who meets the age requirements in the U.S. and wants or wanted to get vaccinated, could have done so by now without any issues.
If we are sitting on expiring inventories why not give third shots to those people that may benefit?
I'd like to see as much vaccine as possible given to residents of other countries. It's more important to get first and second shots to those who need them and want them.
The federal government plans to buy a half-billion extra doses of Pfizer’s coronavirus vaccine and ship them to other countries, the Washington Post and NBC News reported Wednesday, a major boost for President Joe Biden’s pledge to offer up vaccine supplies to poorer parts of the world with far lower vaccination rates than the United States.
That article is from June 9. Two months ago. Vaccine on shelves right now should go overseas right now. I hope we have been sending it.
What are the immune-comp categories that are allowed the 3rd shot?
Jasmo said:
While Israel and a few other countries have approved third shots for older people as vaccine efficacy wanes over time, the US only yesterday approved the shots for immunocompromised individuals. While line-jumping is never desired, there are also unused vaccines on the shelves expiring and going to waste, and over a million people have taken matters into their own hands. I'm not sure how people could even get a third dose. I know when I got my first two of Moderna, I had to supply identification and was entered into a database. Is getting a third dose ethical and appropriate, and if so, how does one do it?
I gt two Modernas and have the card to reference this. However, this is not reflected in the "Docket" app.
Docke shows no record of either shot.
Formerlyjerseyjack said:
What are the immune-comp categories that are allowed the 3rd shot? Among those that got a mRNA vaccine before, these groups need an additional dose:
Here's what the CDC considers to be immunocompromised, for 3rd shot purposes with mRNA vaccines. Essex County, I believe, requires attestation that a person is compromised, but no other documentation:
Active treatment for solid tumor and hematologic malignancies
Receipt of solid-organ transplant and taking immunosuppressive therapy
Receipt of CAR-T-cell or hematopoietic stem cell transplant (within 2 years of transplantation or taking immunosuppression therapy)
Moderate or severe primary immunodeficiency (e.g., DiGeorge, Wiskott-Aldrich syndromes)
Advanced or untreated HIV infection
Active treatment with high-dose corticosteroids (i.e., ≥20mg prednisone or equivalent per day), alkylating agents, antimetabolites, transplant-related immunosuppressive drugs, cancer chemotherapeutic agents classified as severely immunosuppressive, TNF blockers, and other biologic agents that are immunosuppressive or immunomodulatory
Source: Katelyn Jetelina, from Your Local Epidemiologist
(In her newsletter of 8/13)
Formerlyjerseyjack said:
I gt two Modernas and have the card to reference this. However, this is not reflected in the "Docket" app.
Docke shows no record of either shot.
I too found Docket useless.
I downloaded the "NYC Covid Safe" safe app. You put in proof of id (like your drivers license) and your COVID vaccination card. Its easy to use and convenient for "proofing" you're vaccinated. It looks "official."
Just open it and show them your card and if they want to see your id show them the id. You don't have to drag the stuff out your wallet.
Can be gotten on Google play and Apple apps.
I'm sure it will be accepted outside of NYC.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/04/nyregion/nyc-vaccine-pass-answers.html
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=gov.nyc.doitt.covidsafe
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/nyc-covid-safe/id1565213506
i got the pfizer in edison and docket was wrong.....couldn't find any specific contact info, messaged RWj though facebook and they got the site manage in touch with me to fix it. They had originally only uploaded the 1st. i had to delete the app and re install to get it to show.
RTrent said:
I too found Docket useless.
I downloaded the "NYC Covid Safe" safe app. You put in proof of id (like your drivers license) and your COVID vaccination card. Its easy to use and convenient for "proofing" you're vaccinated. It looks "official."
Just open it and show them your card and if they want to see your id show them the id. You don't have to drag the stuff out your wallet.
Can be gotten on Google play and Apple apps.
I'm sure it will be accepted outside of NYC.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/04/nyregion/nyc-vaccine-pass-answers.html
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=gov.nyc.doitt.covidsafe
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/nyc-covid-safe/id1565213506
Is there a password on that? Or are you handing your ID to someone when you lose your phone?
DanDietrich said:
Is there a password on that? Or are you handing your ID to someone when you lose your phone?
There is a password, and confirmation email. I had no trouble with the app and my info quickly popped up. The app is recommended by the NJ govt for safe recording of vax info, but it's not a vax passport.
DanDietrich said:
Is there a password on that? Or are you handing your ID to someone when you lose your phone?
For the COVID safe app you can set a password or biometric (like fingerprint if your phone has that reader) login.
ps - to try it out you can load fake data into the id (like a business card) and the vaccination screens. If you like it then you can edit and replace with actual data. The data will still be stored in the password protected app.
There is no email confirmation. The data stays completely on your phone.
RTrent said:
Formerlyjerseyjack said:
I gt two Modernas and have the card to reference this. However, this is not reflected in the "Docket" app.
Docke shows no record of either shot.
I too found Docket useless.
I downloaded the "NYC Covid Safe" safe app. You put in proof of id (like your drivers license) and your COVID vaccination card. Its easy to use and convenient for "proofing" you're vaccinated. It looks "official."
Just open it and show them your card and if they want to see your id show them the id. You don't have to drag the stuff out your wallet.
Can be gotten on Google play and Apple apps.
I'm sure it will be accepted outside of NYC.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/04/nyregion/nyc-vaccine-pass-answers.html
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=gov.nyc.doitt.covidsafe
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/nyc-covid-safe/id1565213506
I guess I was lucky. Although it was terribly clumsy to get it set up, Docket worked correctly for me once I got all of my info in.
Re the NY app - I thought that was only available to NY residents or others who had received their vaccines in NY (?)
I have saved photos of my vaccine card and screenshot of my corroborating Docket app screen in an album labeled "Wallet" in the Photos app of my iPhone. (After trying to put the photos in the Apple Wallet and learning that you can't do that.)
Saw this on Twitter Twitter this morning. Hope its true re effectiveness of third dose of existing vax:
zz
Nice to see that the 3rd dose did not need 2 weeks to wake up the prior vaccine-induced immune response.
yeah i was thinking that. Seemingly no lag time.
Still, Israel's recent experience suggests we will need boosters for everyone.
bub said:
yeah i was thinking that. Seemingly no lag time.
Still, Israel's recent experience suggests we will need boosters for everyone.
If not boosters with reconstituted variant epitopes. Not just the delta variant but the lambda sequence, too. Since they've already been sequenced, the process is the same for putting them in a vaccine as it was for the original ones. I would think the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are going to have a leg up on J&J or others but those actually involved would know.
I'm concerned about the lambda variant's deletion of the amino acid sequence the current vaccines target. Including that in a vaccine would teach the body to make antibodies against another epitope of the spike protein (or some other part of the virus' outer layer. Add that to boosters of the current receptor-binding domain targeting vaccines.
sac said:
Re the NY app - I thought that was only available to NY residents or others who had received their vaccines in NY (?)
It was written by NYC government and is available to all. This is different from Docket in that the info you supply stays in the app on your phone.
The documentation you upload into this app is not shared with anyone and stays on your phone only.
Docket I have issues with. You're giving access to another private company of your health data. A partial of their privacy policy:
We collection information (including Personal Information and Traffic Data) when you use and interact with the Services, and in some cases from third-party sources.
We may disclose certain information that we collect from Patient Users. In particular, we may disclose certain information, including Personal Information and/or PHI, when: (a) Patient Users transmit medical data to patient-selected care providers (by using Docket to scan a care provider’s Docket QR code); (b) we believe that Patient Users experience emergency medical situations; and (c) when Patient Users use Docket to remotely update care providers. Docket will not disclose Personal Information without your consent. We do not sell e-mail addresses to third parties. We may, however, share your e-mail addresses with our business partners to enable them to help Docket customize our advertising.
We may use information that is neither Personal Information nor PHI (including non-PHI Personal Information that has been de-identified and/or aggregated) to better understand who uses Docket and how we could enhance our products and services.
Although we make good faith efforts to store Personal Information in a secure operating environment, we do not and cannot guarantee the security of your Personal Information.
https://docket.care/privacy_policy
HIPAA resources are allowed to give out their HIPAA data provided it is "deidentified." But deidentification is not infallible:
Moreover, although the deidentification process is often treated as infallible, it is not. Nor is a particular method required for monitoring the success of deidentification efforts. Even after many deidentification-related processes, individual patients can potentially be reidentified on the basis of only a handful of attributes.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2102616
I know Docket is verified against a database whereas NYC's app is based on your truthful response. But these apps are used for access with a person checking who doesn't care. I'll take NYC's app. Its easier to set up, more private and just as easy to use.
While Israel and a few other countries have approved third shots for older people as vaccine efficacy wanes over time, the US only yesterday approved the shots for immunocompromised individuals. While line-jumping is never desired, there are also unused vaccines on the shelves expiring and going to waste, and over a million people have taken matters into their own hands. I'm not sure how people could even get a third dose. I know when I got my first two of Moderna, I had to supply identification and was entered into a database. Is getting a third dose ethical and appropriate, and if so, how does one do it?
https://www.newsweek.com/one-million-people-have-opted-third-covid-booster-shot-cdc-estimates-1618397