NJT and Those Cancelled Trains

conandrob240

can’t they just figure out a schedule of cancellations? Two of mine over last two weeks were cancelled (2 diff morning trains). No warning. And the next scheduled train bypassed the station due to overcrowding. Not an emergency, not mechanical- just because of that  active train switch planned work.


Just decide which trains need to be cancelled each week, post a schedule and send a bigger train before/after cancelled train. It doesn’t have to be such a crapshoot.


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cramer

Sheena has been posting about it on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sheena.collum


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cuethesun

...And cancelled again this evening due to "unavailable trainmen." 


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conandrob240

right because they’ve all been assigned to that “active train control” project. So ridiculous. Let people know on Sunday whichbtrains need to be cancelled.


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joan crystal

According to the news on two stations on TV, the problem is a shortage of train operators coupled with vacation schedules and unscheduled absences.  


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cramer

"Ms. Gutierrez-Scaccetti and Mr. Corbett, who was also appointed by Mr. Murphy, were responding to a crisis of the agency’s own making. It has been losing engineers, to retirement and other railroads with higher pay, much faster than it has replaced them, Mr. Corbett said. That failure has left the railroad without enough of them, particularly in the summer, when some are on vacation and others take unscheduled days off."

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/08/nyregion/nj-transit-train-delays.html


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FilmCarp

In January the positive train control system was only 10% complete, after years of extensions.  Now it is at least 50% complete, but it has chewed up a great deal of their budget.  The deadline is December.  The state has to increase funding right now.


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conandrob240

what I continually wonder is why Amtrak gets priority, what $ dontgeyvoay tiwards the track maintenance and station operations. I doubt they pay their fair share. Not moving forward with our own tunnel is likely to go down in history as one of the worst decisions ever.


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conandrob240
joan_crystal said:
According to the news on two stations on TV, the problem is a shortage of train operators coupled with vacation schedules and unscheduled absences.  

 Yes, because all the resources have been diverted to the positive train control work.


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jimmurphy
conandrob240 said:
what I continually wonder is why Amtrak gets priority, what $ dontgeyvoay tiwards the track maintenance and station operations. I doubt they pay their fair share. Not moving forward with our own tunnel is likely to go down in history as one of the worst decisions ever.

 Amtrak owns Penn Station. LIRR is the secondary tenant. NJT is the tertiary tenant. 


We are treated accordingly.



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conandrob240

not really. There are no Amtrak trains east of Penn station do that partnership works. Why would we allow Amtrak to own a hub like Penn Station- that’s part of the problem. I’ll bet that NJ Kay’s all or most of track work, station maintenances, etc even though Amtrak “shares” it all with us.


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jimmurphy

Nope. Trust me. Working for the MTA right now and intimately involved with the workings of Penn and the LIRR. NJT less-so, but they are the third tenant.


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conandrob240

nope what? No one is debating whether officially we’re third. The point is that I doubt Amtrak pays what it’s suppded to pay. And that the sharing model is ok for LIRR because they don’t compete with track need that direction. I think the arrangement is as sucky as it gets for NJ Transit.


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jimmurphy

 Amtrak and LIRR both run east and compete the same way for tunnels that direction. But whatever, be “right”, as usual.


And continue to “doubt” based upon inferior information.


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conandrob240

there is no Amtrak east of penn Station, sir. As far as I know, they run only north and south from Penn Station. There’s no track competition in that direction. 


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conandrob240

the rest of this is just my conjecture- no right or wrong. I’m sayin I’ll BET that Amtrak doesn’t pay it’s fair share for the rail work or station maintenance on the tracks it uses in NJ


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Coffeegretchen
conandrob240 said:
there is no Amtrak east of penn Station, sir. As far as I know, they run only north and south from Penn Station. There’s no track competition in that direction. 

 Amtrak runs through Manhattan and Queens, and then over the Hellgate Bridge on the way up to New England. They are also historically abysmally underfunded by the government, so while it's likely true that Amtrak isn't spending enough on maintenance, it's due to lack of investment at the federal level. It also stores/maintains trains at the Sunnyside yards in Queens which it owns.


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conandrob240

so, Jamaica? There are no stops though, right? No Long Island stations right?


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Sally
conandrob240 said:


joan_crystal said:
According to the news on two stations on TV, the problem is a shortage of train operators coupled with vacation schedules and unscheduled absences.  
 Yes, because all the resources have been diverted to the positive train control work.

What I read, in a published NJT statement I believe, was that there were a lot of retirements (plus a lot of vacations, sick days, etc. in July and August.) Also that other train lines have better pay and benefits and were hiring NJT engineers away. (i.e. what Joan said. This was claimed to be due to budgetary restraints from the state.  I haven't heard or read any other analysis of this - where is the press when we need them?  But I really doubt that train engineers (i.e. drivers) are the ones doing the PTC installations.  


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DaveSchmidt
conandrob240 said:
there is no Amtrak east of penn Station, sir. As far as I know, they run only north and south from Penn Station. There’s no track competition in that direction. 

So LIRR uses east tracks right out of Penn and Amtrak uses separate north tracks right out of Penn? Is that what you’re saying?


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FilmCarp
sac said:


conandrob240 said:


joan_crystal said:
According to the news on two stations on TV, the problem is a shortage of train operators coupled with vacation schedules and unscheduled absences.  
 Yes, because all the resources have been diverted to the positive train control work.
What I read, in a published NJT statement I believe, was that there were a lot of retirements (plus a lot of vacations, sick days, etc. in July and August.) Also that other train lines have better pay and benefits and were hiring NJT engineers away. (i.e. what Joan said. This was claimed to be due to budgetary restraints from the state.  I haven't heard or read any other analysis of this - where is the press when we need them?  But I really doubt that train engineers (i.e. drivers) are the ones doing the PTC installations.  

 Of course the engineers are not doing the installations.  But money that could have been used to hire the 55 engineers that they are short or to pay competitive wages to retain engineers has been diverted into that project.


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jimmurphy
DaveSchmidt said:


conandrob240 said:
there is no Amtrak east of penn Station, sir. As far as I know, they run only north and south from Penn Station. There’s no track competition in that direction. 
So LIRR uses east tracks right out of Penn and Amtrak uses separate north tracks right out of Penn? Is that what you’re saying?

No.  

Both LIRR and Amtrak use the same tunnels and same tracks going east out of Manhattan. Most NJT trains use these tunnels as well when the train is going to a storage yard in Queens. The LIRR/Amtrak track "split" occurs in Queens. Amtrak then goes north over the Hell Gate to Boston and LIRR goes east to Jamaica and Port Washington.


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jimmurphy
conandrob240 said:
there is no Amtrak east of penn Station, sir. As far as I know, they run only north and south from Penn Station. There’s no track competition in that direction. 

 You are wrong, ma'am.


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conandrob240

sort of. I didn’t realize the tracks they used to go north split/dipped into Queens but there are no Amtrak stops/ stations from NYC East.


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ml1

whether or not Amtrak stops in LI is not relevant to the point that was being discussed, which was that Amtrak uses the east bound tracks out of Penn.


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conandrob240

the point I was trying to make was to wonder if Amtrak pays its fair share for the tracks they use, stations they use and congestion they cause in NJ. Those aren’t real factors on LI. They’re not using stations and they aren’t really using much of the tracks. My perception is (and it may be totally wrong) that Amtrak doesn’t pay it’s fair share for what they use and that NJ gets the most screwed.


And that not making the deal for the extra tunnel years ago was an absolute disaster of a decision.




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ml1

The NEC and Penn Station belong to Amtrak, so who would they be "paying" for their use? I think you have it backwards.  NJT is not allowing Amtrak to use its infrastructure.  NJT uses Amtrak infrastructure on the NEC and in Penn Station.


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DaveSchmidt
jimmurphy said:


conandrob240 said:
there is no Amtrak east of penn Station, sir. As far as I know, they run only north and south from Penn Station. There’s no track competition in that direction. 
 You are wrong, ma'am.

Confirmed. (I was trying to make the logic of your earlier comment about the track competition in and out of Penn apparent even in her own terms.)


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