Netanyahu calls for War

Your AIPAC Benjamins at work.


drummerboy said:
Your AIPAC Benjamins at work.

You're so invested in this anti-Semitic propaganda that you're willing to overlook the bigger money and forces at work -- military spending and nuclear weapons power struggles. Without these, the "Jew-dollars" you keep referring to wouldn't be able to buy much influence.


sprout said:


drummerboy said:
Your AIPAC Benjamins at work.
You're so invested in this anti-Semitic propaganda that you're willing to overlook the bigger money and forces at work -- military spending and nuclear weapons power struggles. Without these, the "Jew-dollars" you keep referring to wouldn't be able to buy much influence.

wow-a-wow-a-wowzie

And all you can do is make excuses for a terrible, horrible lobby.

You've yet to explain why Israel is such an invaluable ally to us.

eta: and what does this even mean? "You're so invested in this anti-Semitic propaganda"


more anti-semitism from the WSJ.

A $100 million a year? What do they do with all of that money?


WASHINGTON—The American Israel Public Affairs Committee has drawn criticism from several progressive new lawmakers, including Rep. Ilhan Omar, who said in tweets this week that the lobbying group holds financial sway over Congress.

The Minnesota Democrat, who was heavily criticized for her remarks, has apologized for messages many viewed as anti-Semitic because they played into stereotypes about Jews and money. But Ms. Omar said she has no regrets about calling out the influence of the group, known as Aipac.

Aipac raises more than $100 million a year from donors, according to its tax returns, a budget that doesn’t include campaign contributions that Aipac members give directly to candidates. The group calls itself “America’s pro-Israel lobby” and prides itself on bipartisanship.

Washington’s Israel lobby, led by Aipac, differs from many other foreign-nation influence groups in that it is fueled by American donors and activists while also hiring professional lobbyists. Other countries, from Saudi Arabia to Japan, are generally represented in Washington by lobbyists who have registered as agents paid by foreign entities.

Aipac spends $3.5 million a year to lobby federal lawmakers, according to Senate and House lobbying records. It has advocated for billions in U.S. aid to Israel and opposed a deal between then-President Obama and U.S. allies to ease sanctions against Iran in exchange for stronger oversight of its nuclear activities. President Trump pulled out of the accord last May.

Much of the Aipac-related money is channeled through a related nonprofit group that pays for congressional trips to Israel. The trips cost an average of $10,000 per attendee, according to a review of congressional travel records.

The excursions, which often include business-class flights and five-star accommodations, have helped make Israel the top destination for lawmakers and Capitol Hill employees taking privately funded trips, according to LegiStorm, a website that keeps statistics on congressional travel dating to 2000.

Aipac’s annual Washington policy conference, set for late next month, attracts 18,000 attendees. The group boasts on its website that more than two-thirds of the members of Congress typically attend.

Last year’s speakers at the conference included 35 federal lawmakers, including Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R., Ky.), House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D., Calif.), Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.) and House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R., Calif.), according to the website.

Aipac’s conference “shows the strength and the vitality of the unbreakable bonds between the United States and Israel,” Mrs. Pelosi said at the group’s 2017 gathering. She said the thousands of attendees included “community leaders of diverse experience, young and old, Jewish and otherwise, Democratic and Republican, many voices speaking to one mission.”

Through its “Congressional Club,” some of Aipac’s 100,000 members commit to giving at least $2,500 a year to House or Senate candidates while ensuring the donations are made “in a clearly pro-Israel context,” according to Aipac’s website. Aipac spokesman Marshall Wittmann declined to disclose how many of its members are part of the Congressional Club.

“The extent of influence and resources and relationships developed on the other side far, far, far outweighs any advocacy for Palestinian rights,” said Yousef Munayyer, executive director of the U.S. Campaign for Palestinian Rights, a coalition of pro-Palestinian groups. “There’s a really long legacy to overcome on the Hill. That dynamic is real and always there.”

Americans view Israel favorably and have less favorable views of the Palestinian Authority, according to a Gallup poll last March. A Pew poll in January 2018 found that while Americans sympathize with Israelis over Palestinians in the conflict, overall support for Israel had slipped compared with previous years.

Aipac issued one statement about Ms. Omar’s tweets: “We are proud that we are engaged in the democratic process to strengthen the US-Israel relationship. Our bipartisan efforts are reflective of American values and interests. We will not be deterred in any way by ill-informed and illegitimate attacks on this important work.”

Former Rep. Brian Baird, a Washington Democrat who tussled with the group during his decade in office, said that “if you criticize Aipac, it is as if by extension you are criticizing all Jews in America, as if there is no one who disagrees with Aipac.” He added: “It stifles the political discussion in a terribly unhealthy way.”

Aipac arranges its trips to Israel through the American Israel Education Foundation, which has spent $16 million on visits by more than 1,400 lawmakers and their staff since 2000, according to congressional travel records. The foundation, which also raises funds on its own, is controlled by Aipac, according to tax returns from both entities.

Craig Holman, a public-interest lobbyist who helped pass a 2007 law that was supposed to outlaw congressional trips funded by lobbyists, said Aipac “subverts the intention of the law.”

“They view these trips as a very successful lobbying tool, and they are,” said Mr. Holman, government affairs lobbyist for the group Public Citizen. He said it has been “difficult to get a chorus of opposition going because the members [of Congress] enjoy it so much.”

Aipac’s Mr. Wittmann said the “trips strictly adhere to the spirit and the letter of all rules regarding congressional trips.”

Some lawmakers said they appreciate Aipac’s efforts to inform them about legislation and are in frequent contact with its 10 registered lobbyists, as well as its members who write, call and visit their offices.

Sen. Mazie Hirono (D., Hawaii) said she knows the Aipac lobbyists that stop by her office by their first names, though she said she doesn’t always agree with them.

Sen. John Barrasso (R., Wyo.) said Aipac lobbyists brought to his attention that the Palestinian Authority was providing money to families of Palestinians who were killed, injured or imprisoned for involvement in attacks on Israelis. The Palestinian Authority defends the payments, saying they prevent families from living in poverty.

Mr. Barrasso supported a law passed last year by Congress to cut some aid to Palestinians until they stop paying the stipends. “It was something that I wasn’t really aware of,” the senator said.



Did you read what you just posted?  It indicates that your view of AIPAC's influence is outsized.


That budget is smaller than our SOMSD school budget ... and also smaller than the budget of the "Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund" which provides substantial payments to the families of Palestinians who are suicide bombers in Israel and Palestinians who disrupt Israel in other violent ways.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund


Does our current lobbying system need to be fixed as a whole?  Definitely. But as the US spent over $4 trillion (which has 12 zeros) in the ME wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Syria, the AIPAC lobbying dollars are a speck of dust in comparison, and would not wield much influence, if Israel didn't already play a role in bigger military strategy and intelligence games.


In summary: You can keep promoting this anti-Semitic propaganda if you want to. But the system of the US's interactions, decisions, and alliances in the ME are far too historical, complex, and tied to larger financial and political interests, to boil it down to a simplistic blame on the "Jew-dollars".


THEY RAISE 100 MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.

oops, am I yelling?


sprout said:


 "Jew-dollars" 

Absolutely uncalled for. 


Klinker said:


sprout said:

 "Jew-dollars" 
Absolutely uncalled for. 

I put it in quotes so DB can see what the "AIPAC Benjamins" statement is a dog-whistle for.


I'd put the your whole post in the compost pile to make good use of a bunch of bs.


I'm sorry.  Observing the obvious fact that Israel and its supporters employ American lobbyists is not anti semitic it is pro reality.  If anyone is blowing a dog whistle here it is you.


Klinker said:
I'm sorry.  Observing the obvious fact that Israel and its supporters employ American lobbyists is not anti semitic it is pro reality. 

Observing that fact is not anti-Semitic (which, for your reference, should be capitalized).

However, outsizing that influence so that it appears to align with the crazy anti-Semitic "Jew-dollars run the world" conspiracy theories (see for example: http://www.jewdollar.com/ ) runs that risk. 

If you don't want to recognize AIPAC's influence within a more accurate historical and financial context, and you don't want to recognize the influence of lobbying in a wider context, then you appear to be purposefully ignoring what such a simplistic statement as "AIPAC Benjamins" aligns with.


sprout said:......

 Just keep tooting that whistle.  I think I will skip over your posts on this subject.


Klinker said:


sprout said:......
 Just keep tooting that whistle.  I think I will skip over your posts on this subject.

 Ignorance is bliss.


I think the influence of Jewish voters is far stronger than the influence of money. Politicians from States with a Jewish population would support Israel if they did not get one penny from pro-Israel lobbyists.

How much money do politicians get from ex-pat Cubans? What motivates our continuing foreign policy hostility to Cuba?



STANV said:
I think the influence of Jewish voters is far stronger than the influence of money. Politicians from States with a Jewish population would support Israel if they did not get one penny from pro-Israel lobbyists.
How much money do politicians get from ex-pat Cubans? What motivates our continuing foreign policy hostility to Cuba?

As has been the case since the recognition of Israel.  Although, in 1948,  shame over what the Allies allowed to happen to the Jews as a much stronger factor.


sprout said:


Klinker said:


sprout said:

 "Jew-dollars" 
Absolutely uncalled for. 
I put it in quotes so DB can see what the "AIPAC Benjamins" statement is a dog-whistle for.

 Apparently any combination of Israeli interests and money influence is a dog-whistle to you.


drummerboy said:
Your AIPAC Benjamins at work.

 ^^ Anti Semitic comment


max_weisenfeld said:


drummerboy said:
Your AIPAC Benjamins at work.
 ^^ Anti Semitic comment

 lol


Does it have something to do with the word "Benjamins"?


drummerboy said:
Does it have something to do with the word "Benjamins"?

 It has to do with context.  The Israel lobby and the influence it has are much more than just one lobby, no matter what AIPAC would like us to believe.  Evangelical Christians, for example, are a huge part of the influence, and unlike the gun lobby the majority of Americans still support Israel, even while many, even many Jews, condemn specific Israeli government policies.

But what really makes it anti-Semitic is, as I said, context.  You have been told by commentators from both the right and the left, Jewish and not, that it is an anti-Semitic trope, a dog whistle, yet you use it again and in a context making it clear you are trying to provoke.  You do not get to define anti-Semitism, just like I (as a white person) don't get to define what's racist.  But to not only push back but to do so in a way calculated to intentionally provoke, is unquestionably anti-Semitic.


And intentionally so.  Rep Omar was implicit.  You are being explicit.  Stop.


utterly ridiculous


The context is that Netanyahu has called for war with Iran. And AIPAC, with whatever influence it wields, which includes financial influence, is one of the reasons that  Netanyahu maintains strong support from the U.S.

At one point do we hit anti-Semitism? I could have said any of the following:

your AIPAC at work

your AIPAC lobbyists at work

your AIPAC influence at work

your AIPAC financial influence at work

your AIPAC Benjamins at work


Where's the line, and why?

Max, I respect you quite a bit, but please consider the possibility that these accusations of anti-Semitism are being used to shut down discussion of why Israel enjoys such unquestioning support among our political elites.



drummerboy said:

... these accusations of anti-Semitism are being used to shut down discussion of why Israel enjoys such unquestioning support among our political elites.

 This.


drummerboy said:
Your AIPAC Benjamins at work.

 ^^^That is not an attempt to start a productive discussion. It's a baiting statement. And as Max indicated, you made the statement well aware of what it would do. 

Now, after not providing any productive thoughts, you accuse the other side of shutting down the conversation.

I know you are capable of putting out thoughtful solutioning ideas. Are you in too contrarian of a mood to do so?


drummerboy said:
At one point do we hit anti-Semitism? I could have said any of the following:

your AIPAC at work

your AIPAC lobbyists at work

your AIPAC influence at work

your AIPAC financial influence at work

your AIPAC Benjamins at work

Of all the common modes of influence (votes, persuasive argument, rallies, boycotts, muscle, etc.), which of your lines singles out a monetary transaction?


Israeli leadership, who used to side with the US, now sides with Republicans, so screw them.


Klinker said:


drummerboy said:

... these accusations of anti-Semitism are being used to shut down discussion of why Israel enjoys such unquestioning support among our political elites.
 This.

That’s what sprout and Max are doing, are they?


DaveSchmidt said:


drummerboy said:
At one point do we hit anti-Semitism? I could have said any of the following:

your AIPAC at work

your AIPAC lobbyists at work

your AIPAC influence at work

your AIPAC financial influence at work

your AIPAC Benjamins at work
Of all the common modes of influence (votes, persuasive argument, rallies, boycotts, muscle, etc.), which of your lines singles out a monetary transaction?

 hey, I'm askin' the questions here.


DaveSchmidt said:


Klinker said:

drummerboy said:

... these accusations of anti-Semitism are being used to shut down discussion of why Israel enjoys such unquestioning support among our political elites.
 This.
That’s what sprout and Max are doing, are they?

 well yeah - what did we end up talking about - the US support of Bibi or anti-Semitism?


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