Hospitals, covid vax and your health.

Monday's ledger front page story was about a hospital nurse who got a religious exemption from the vax because she resented gub'mint control.


Then, Jesus changed his mind and she got vaccinated.

The problem is that the hospital has 6% of its staff as unvaccinated. It has 33k employees. So 1,980 of its employees are unvaccinated.... and we can't know an employee's status when they are standing in front of us.

N.Y. now requires hospital workers to be vaccinated or stay home. Will Murphy do this after the election?



its not the lack of vaccination among medically certified people (doctors, nurses, etc)....its the fact that their refusal to get the vaccine demonstrates gross incompetence and complete lack of medical knowledge.


yes, it's frightening that there are significant numbers of health care workers who have refused vaccination.


Religious exemption bs.

Suppose my religion does not allow me to wash my hands on Sunday. But I work in a restaurant as a server or cook after Sunday service. Should I be exempt from washing after going to the bathroom?

Religion and state are supposed to be separate. But government gives religion all kind of privileges that we don't have. Tax exemptions, the right to discriminate, the power to override local zoning (Religious Land Use Law) and of course the usual prayers and prayer meetings in legislatures and political caucuses.

By giving religions tax exemptions you are increasing the taxes for every one else, thereby forcing the non-religious to support the religious institutions. Your personal property tax is higher because of tax exempt properties.

So, where is the separation of church and state? 


If you have a reasoned, non-supernatural value, you get no special rights.  But if you believe your value comes from an invisible omnipotent being in the sky, you get special rights.


My problem is with the hospitals. They don't have to accept the religious or health excuses and they shouldn't.  Vac or mandatory leave has been upheld by every court in which it has been addressed. 

The fear was about how to replace hundreds of workers that bail, rather than vaccinate. That fear is unfounded as less than 1% of workers follow through on their threat to leave their jobs, rather than vaccinate. Then comes the other question: as an employer, would you want these meatballs working for you anyway?


bub said:

If you have a reasoned, non-supernatural value, you get no special rights.  But if you believe your value comes from an invisible omnipotent being in the sky, you get special rights.

 According to the EEOC, "Religious beliefs include theistic beliefs as well as non-theistic 'moral or ethical beliefs as to what is right and wrong which are sincerely held with the strength of traditional religious views'."

Section 12: Religious Discrimination | U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (eeoc.gov)


Formerlyjerseyjack said:

My problem is with the hospitals. They don't have to accept the religious or health excuses and they shouldn't.  Vac or mandatory leave has been upheld by every court in which it has been addressed. 

The fear was about how to replace hundreds of workers that bail, rather than vaccinate. That fear is unfounded as less than 1% of workers follow through on their threat to leave their jobs, rather than vaccinate. Then comes the other question: as an employer, would you want these meatballs working for you anyway?

 Exactly. Also, the employer is not required to keep the unvaccinated employee in a position where that employee has patient contact.


One of the lawyers for nurses or teachers is trying to make the case that religious objection is essentially the same as “conscientious” objection. Not necessarily tied to formal/organized religion.

Not saying I agree… 


I remain mystified that healthcare professionals are not respecting the need to quash a public health crisis by taking a vaccine that has been proven over and over again to be safe after hundreds of millions of doses worldwide.


I know of health care proffessionals who refuse the vaccine. Examples: a school nurse and a SMG physician. Do not assume that your doctor is vaccinated when they are in your face.


cubby said:

I know of health care proffessionals who refuse the vaccine. Examples: a school nurse and a SMG physician. Do not assume that your doctor is vaccinated when they are in your face.

 Is that SMG doc in the Livingston office?


So very little regard being expressed in this discussion for the tenets of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.


Formerlyjerseyjack said:

Monday's ledger front page story was about a hospital nurse who got a religious exemption from the vax because she resented gub'mint control.


Then, Jesus changed his mind and she got vaccinated.

The problem is that the hospital has 6% of its staff as unvaccinated. It has 33k employees. So 1,980 of its employees are unvaccinated.... and we can't know an employee's status when they are standing in front of us.

N.Y. now requires hospital workers to be vaccinated or stay home. Will Murphy do this after the election?


 You hit the nail right on the head.  Governor Murphy will refrain from making any decisions on this topic until after the election.

I'm sure all restaurant owners are vaccinated.  Let's all remember a little fact here.  This vaccine is not a cure, it's a political band-aid.  The reason many physicians refuse to get vaccinated is because unlike most of us, they work with the problem in their face every single day.  What they realize unlike the political bananas is that even if they get ten vaccines, they can still get COVID.  They can still die doing their job.  There is no absolute here still.  Almost two years into this pandemic and no "national healing" going on as we were promised by the current, most awesome person in the world, can do no wrong ever, president Biden.

You know what physicians are relying on?  This is true.  Ask physicians themselves, they will tell you they rely on getting infected, surviving the experience and maintaining a high anti-body count in their bodies which should be the way to go for all of us.  Because those anti-bodies actually protect you from getting infected.  That's real science, not political phony science.  Yes, there will be death, but you are talking to people who see it up close every day.  They are not conscientious objectors or religious freaks or non-violent protestors.  They know the real science.  Not the propaganda science, the real science.


and the idiocy just keeps on keepin' on


Obviously physicians are relying on getting infected by a virus that has killed 700,000 people.

Makes sense.  Seems like a logical path to take instead of getting the vaccine.


It turns out that the opinions are mixed but the evidence indicates that vaccination after recovering from COVID is better than just relying on natural immunity. Stay in your lane, Straw.

Here's this from Nebraska- September 20, 2021:

https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/covid-19-studies-natural-immunity-versus-vaccination

The data is clear: Natural immunity is not better. The COVID-19 vaccines create more effective and longer-lasting immunity than natural immunity from infection.

  • More than a third of COVID-19 infections result in zero protective antibodies
  • Natural immunity fades faster than vaccine immunity
  • Natural immunity alone is less than half as effective than natural immunity plus vaccination

The takeaway: Get vaccinated, even if you've had COVID-19. Vaccine immunity is stronger than natural immunity.

-----------------------------

These articles cite the Israeli study that shows natural immunity is strong a durable but all state that while many people who survive a COVID infection have strong natural immunity against subsequent exposures, not every survivor is so lucky. ALL SAY THE DATA SUPPORT GETTING VACCINATED.

https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital

From Austin, by way of Politifact:

https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/2021/09/17/does-natural-immunity-covid-provide-best-protection/8363588002/

DeSantis said people who have recovered from COVID-19 have very strong protection.

The studies are preliminary, but they do find that surviving COVID-19 leaves people with robust immunity, even stronger than immunity gained through vaccination.

However, some of the same research found that giving a single vaccine dose to those who had recovered provided the best protection.

From Idaho:

https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/is-natural-immunity-stronger-than-vaccine-immunity-against-covid-19-vax-coronavirus/277-d99f79a6-0f8c-4b7f-8895-dc07b45db4c7


As usual, The Onion nails it.

https://www.theonion.com/nurse-carefully-weighs-whether-she-better-off-getting-v-1847768107

Nurse Carefully Weighs Whether She Better Off Getting Vaccine Or Losing Job And Dying


ConcernedHighTaxPayer said:


You know what physicians are relying on?  This is true.  Ask physicians themselves, they will tell you they rely on getting infected, surviving the experience and maintaining a high anti-body count in their bodies which should be the way to go for all of us.  Because those anti-bodies actually protect you from getting infected.  That's real science, not political phony science.  Yes, there will be death, but you are talking to people who see it up close every day.  They are not conscientious objectors or religious freaks or non-violent protestors.  They know the real science.  Not the propaganda science, the real science.

Where are you getting this crap?  The healthcare workers I know (doctors included) all got vaccinated as soon as it was available.  If my doctor refused to get vaccinated, I would move on ASAP.


sbenois said:

Obviously physicians are relying on getting infected by a virus that has killed 700,000 people.

Makes sense.  Seems like a logical path to take instead of getting the vaccine.

 If you walked on a battlefield every day and you had to take constant gunfire, wearing a helmet isn't going to help. You are eventually going to get shot. Just so you guys understand the analogy here, the helmet is the vaccine.


ConcernedHighTaxPayer said:

... the analogy here, the helmet is the vaccine.

No. I've gone over this several times. 


 "The American Medical Association (AMA) today released a new survey (PDF) among practicing physicians that shows more than 96 percent of surveyed U.S. physicians have been fully vaccinated for COVID-19, with no significant difference in vaccination rates across regions. Of the physicians who are not yet vaccinated, an additional 45 percent do plan to get vaccinated."

https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-survey-shows-over-96-doctors-fully-vaccinated-against-covid-19



Don’t  know. I was told by a friend that their SMG doctor offered to refer them to a different physician when told by the patient that they are only comfortable being treated by a vaccinated physician. As of at least a few weeks ago SMG was not mandating that their staff be vaccinated.

drummerboy said:

 Is that SMG doc in the Livingston office?

 


BTW, the survey Cramer posted is from June so presumably the number of vaxed doctors is closer to 100% now.  It's consistent with the stance of every doctor I know, including ones I'm related to and receive treatment from.  Arguing is so easy when you just make stuff up (looking at you TaxPayer guy).


yahooyahoo said:

Where are you getting this crap?  The healthcare workers I know (doctors included) all got vaccinated as soon as it was available.  If my doctor refused to get vaccinated, I would move on ASAP.

 This is the main problem that keeps us from moving forward on this and many other topics.  Today, nobody listens to anyone.  There are no counter arguments that are digested first and then discussed to a resolution.  

It's "If my doctor refused to get vaccinated, I would move on ASAP."

Oh really?  What if you needed a critical organ transplant and the only doctor available to do the emergency procedure told you he was not vaccinated?  You would refuse the treatment? Yeah, I'd like to see that.

Then it's people who say things like, well if that business is not vaccinated, I'm not eating there or I'm not shopping there!

Well, what's the point then?  Do we only do business if everyone does what you want them to do?

This is counter productive.  Besides your argument of "moving on" from the doctor who is not vaccinated is no different than someone saying they want to put a doctor out of business because they learned occasionally they perform abortions.  It's asinine!

The point here is there are more paths to winning against COVID-19, not just what you think because you were informed by friends who are probably afraid to disagree with you.  Even Dr. Anthony Fraudci's colleagues disagree with him.  Doctors and scientists alike disagree on the path forward.

We're all so focused on reliving the Scarlet Letter with this vaccine for political purposes, we are losing focus on what's more important.  Our local governments are not helping either, because they stoke the emotional political hot buttons and make people think selectively targeting small businesses (including doctors) is okay.  It's not okay, it's backwards.



ConcernedHighTaxPayer said:

 If you walked on a battlefield every day and you had to take constant gunfire, wearing a helmet isn't going to help. You are eventually going to get shot. Just so you guys understand the analogy here, the helmet is the vaccine.

 Now you've explained it in a way we all can understand. Unvaccinated physicians are like the conscientious objector who goes onto the battlefield with no rifle.

Sorry, I couldn't find the emoticons while commenting on a quote.


ConcernedHighTaxPayer said:

yahooyahoo said:

Where are you getting this crap?  The healthcare workers I know (doctors included) all got vaccinated as soon as it was available.  If my doctor refused to get vaccinated, I would move on ASAP.


Well, what's the point then?  Do we only do business if everyone does what you want them to do?

 Truthfully, yes. There are a number of retailers I will not frequent because of their stated political views. You can make a decision on how you act, I can react to that decision. The argument about the transplant is just strawman. 


Dude, your just running away from the fact that you made stuff up.  The idea that there is some large scale phenomenon of anti-vax doctors who would rather get sick to achieve natural immunity, with all the attendant risks (death, hospitalization, long Covid or even just a very miserable "mild" case) came straight from your colon.  When you fess up to that, we can talk about things like listening to multiple sides of arguments and being open minded etc.  


ConcernedHighTaxPayer said:

 If you walked on a battlefield every day and you had to take constant gunfire, wearing a helmet isn't going to help. You are eventually going to get shot. Just so you guys understand the analogy here, the helmet is the vaccine.

I think what happens is the vaccines turn the gunfire into BBs. 


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