Homeopathic flea and tick applications

Has anyone ever tried them? Do they work? Brands you like?

Neem oil is good - used with our cat in a heavily tick infested area. It's also what is used in India. 

Also there's a Bach's rescue remedy especially for animals, which does work despite DB's scepticism. 

drummerboy said:
They are homeopathic which means they don't and can't work. 

Not that I'm totally disagreeing with you on homeopathy, but your ability to leap on woo topics so quickly is quite uncanny.

Woo radar

We have been using No More Flea and Tick for a couple years now. Our youngest cat is very allergic to all other flea tick Meds. We like to go out in the summer for walks together around the yard. No  issues yet. 

joanne said:

Neem oil is good - used with our cat in a heavily tick infested area. It's also what is used in India. 

Also there's a Bach's rescue remedy especially for animals, which does work despite DB's scepticism. 

Bach's rescue remedy does not appear to be homeopathic, so I'm not sure why you brought it up.

Flower essences are included in conventional definitions of alternative/complimentary medicines or 'woo'. 

JGM said:

We have been using No More Flea and Tick for a couple years now. Our youngest cat is very allergic to all other flea tick Meds. We like to go out in the summer for walks together around the yard. No  issues yet. 

I'll look for this. Do you mix it into food? We have two dogs. Does it have a dosage for weight class?

Since it says dog dust I am guessing that it is rubbed into the fur and not consumed.

I was curious about the Bach's rescue remedies, so I looked it up. DB, how is that not homeopathic??? But, Joanne, we are talking about flea/tick remedies, and Bach's treats anxiety and the like. Not for fleas or ticks, as far as I can see.

If Puupy does get a tick, s/he will need a dose to aid recovery It's not pleasant, having people hold you down, pore over you hair by hair then yank a boring insect out of your skin while you're in pain. Many humans who get ticks need strong pain killers as well as antibiotics. 

JGM said:

We have been using No More Flea and Tick for a couple years now. Our youngest cat is very allergic to all other flea tick Meds. We like to go out in the summer for walks together around the yard. No  issues yet. 

No its rubbed into their fur. Little dusty at first, but safe to lick. 

PeggyC said:

I was curious about the Bach's rescue remedies, so I looked it up. DB, how is that not homeopathic??? But, Joanne, we are talking about flea/tick remedies, and Bach's treats anxiety and the like. Not for fleas or ticks, as far as I can see.

it's not homeopathic because it doesn't follow the homeopathic method (i.e. finding a substance which mimics the symptom you're trying to alleviate, and then diluting it until there is less than 1 molecule per billion billion, or some equally ridiculous number.)

though I wouldn't be surprised if "homeopathic" was applied to any damn thing these days, there being no actual rules or anything.

joanne said:

Flower essences are included in conventional definitions of alternative/complimentary medicines or 'woo'. 

I have not mentioned either of those disciplines. When I say homeopathy, I mean homeopathy as it is traditionally known. Homeopathy isn't even embraced by mainstream woo these days (i.e. alternative/complementary argle-bargle)

So you disagree with the entire concept but then hold the thread to the letter of the definition? All righty, then. 

I am not even going to discuss the term "mainstream woo."   

In Dummerboy's defense 'herbal' and 'natural' remedies are a whole different thing than 'homeopathic'.  Herbal and natural are taking things that people think help and trying those. Homeopathic is taking something that harms and diluting it to the point where presumably it does something magical to heal.

So 'herbal' and 'natural' usually is invoked in a way to avoid interacting with major pharmaceuticals who perhaps don't have the general public's interest in hand as much as they should. The idea that St. John's wort could be a replacement for Prozac or that melatonin could be used instead of Ambien is much more scientifically sound than the idea that highly diluted ipecac solution would be an effective remedy for nausea. Ipecac induces vomiting, it doesn't reduce it. In homeopathic practice they actually believe that it is a stronger remedy the more diluted it is. This goes to the point where there is only a tiny chance that even a single molecule even exists in the solution used for treatment. Chemically the solution is water, albeit to a homeopathic practitioner it's water that has memory of having something in it.

SO... long story short. If you're into homeopathy, I guess more power to you. It's as effective as a placebo, which is at least better than nothing. If you're not actually into it, then it is helpful to know that the methodology is pretty out there.

To put it in a political analogy, I'd say that herbal/natural is like saying "I don't like the government, I'm going to be a Libertarian." while homeopathy is like saying "I don't like the government, I'm going to submit to the will of the lizard people that live beneath the surface". Drummerboy is just anti-lizard people, as I think we should all be.

PeggyC said:

So you disagree with the entire concept but then hold the thread to the letter of the definition? All righty, then. 

I don't understand your point.

I simply assume that when someone says the word homeopathy, I assume that's what they mean. What else should I assume?

qrysdonnell said:

In Dummerboy's defense 'herbal' and 'natural' remedies are a whole different thing than 'homeopathic'.  Herbal and natural are taking things that people think help and trying those. Homeopathic is taking something that harms and diluting it to the point where presumably it does something magical to heal.

So 'herbal' and 'natural' usually is invoked in a way to avoid interacting with major pharmaceuticals who perhaps don't have the general public's interest in hand as much as they should. The idea that St. John's wort could be a replacement for Prozac or that melatonin could be used instead of Ambien is much more scientifically sound than the idea that highly diluted ipecac solution would be an effective remedy for nausea. Ipecac induces vomiting, it doesn't reduce it. In homeopathic practice they actually believe that it is a stronger remedy the more diluted it is. This goes to the point where there is only a tiny chance that even a single molecule even exists in the solution used for treatment. Chemically the solution is water, albeit to a homeopathic practitioner it's water that has memory of having something in it.

SO... long story short. If you're into homeopathy, I guess more power to you. It's as effective as a placebo, which is at least better than nothing. If you're not actually into it, then it is helpful to know that the methodology is pretty out there.

To put it in a political analogy, I'd say that herbal/natural is like saying "I don't like the government, I'm going to be a Libertarian." while homeopathy is like saying "I don't like the government, I'm going to submit to the will of the lizard people that live beneath the surface". Drummerboy is just anti-lizard people, as I think we should all be.

Finally, someone who gets me!

Down with lizards!

and, btw, I would be willing to give homeopathy the benefit of the doubt, despite it's crazy methods that attempt to defy the laws of physics, if there was even the slightest bit of scientific evidence it helped at all. 

There is none, of course.

drummerboy said:

Finally, someone who gets me!




Down with lizards!

And don't get me started on chiropractic medicine!!!

The OP used the word homeopathy, and those of us who know what it means assumed that the OP did too.  If she means "natural" medicine more broadly, then she has gotten some advice here.

I agree that true homeopathics are a very different issue that herbal/natural medicines.  

Herbal/natural medicines are (hopefully) made based on generations of knowledge about the effects of various plants and other natural compounds, and may well have activity, but do not have the full validation (or safety testing!) of the FDA behind them.  So they may be under-tested and data-poor, but may well have very real effects.

I've actually read the Nature research article on homeopathics years and years ago...in order to believe in them, you have to believe in a thoroughly discredited theory of water's ability to retain a molecularly-organized "memory" of a dissolved compound, even when there is little or none of the compound left. Belief in homeopathy requires ignorance, either or what homeopathy is, or of any of the fundamental basics of chemistry.  Hence the lizard people!

I'm sorry if anyone is offended by my disdain for homeopathy. But I hate seeing people make money selling water as medicine, especially if it is being sold for people (or animals) who actually need a real medicine.

drummerboy said:

PeggyC said:

So you disagree with the entire concept but then hold the thread to the letter of the definition? All righty, then. 

I don't understand your point.

I simply assume that when someone says the word homeopathy, I assume that's what they mean. What else should I assume?

My favorite homeopathy 'thing' is that you can find shops selling 'melatonin-6X' as a sleep aid. Despite your standard dilution problem - you're talking about 1ml of melatonin in 1000l of water - homeopathic reasoning is to treat like with like. So to fall asleep you'd really want diluted caffeine. Thus diluted melatonin should be an energy drink, not a sleep aid.

drummerboy said:

PeggyC said:

I was curious about the Bach's rescue remedies, so I looked it up. DB, how is that not homeopathic??? But, Joanne, we are talking about flea/tick remedies, and Bach's treats anxiety and the like. Not for fleas or ticks, as far as I can see.

it's not homeopathic because it doesn't follow the homeopathic method (i.e. finding a substance which mimics the symptom you're trying to alleviate, and then diluting it until there is less than 1 molecule per billion billion, or some equally ridiculous number.)

though I wouldn't be surprised if "homeopathic" was applied to any damn thing these days, there being no actual rules or anything.

Bach's seems on the edge to me.  They are listed as 5X (HPUS) dilutions, which means that they are defined by the HPUS homeopathic drug registry.  5X means they have gone through 5 ten-fold dilutions, and have 0.001% active ingredient.  That is a one in ten thousand dilution of the floral active ingredient, so pretty dilute, but there are still quite a few molecules of it in each drop.  Not sure if that is enough for there to be an aromatherapy effect, but they don't seem to rely on the classic homeopathic idea of water memory.

Some homeopathic drugs are C dilutions (1 to 99, rather than 1 to 9 dilutions), and quickly get to levels where there are darn few molecules of "active" ingredient left.

I would be interested to know whether the OP actually meant homeopathic in the strictest interpretation of the word or was referring loosely to alternative remedies.

susan1014 said:

Bach's seems on the edge to me.  They are listed as 5X (HPUS) dilutions, which means that they are defined by the HPUS homeopathic drug registry...

Sounds like Bach's solutions were initially brandy based, nice way to unwind?