Big Lies of Our Time in the United States

jimmurphy said:


nan said:
Ok, so let's take WWII out of the mix and what justifiable wars do we have left?  Not Vietnam, or Iraq or Yemen or Syria, etc. . . Think of all the money we could have if we were not so busy killing people.   
 Former military here. I agree, but as long as the military-industrial complex has so much sway over the entire country, ain’t nothin’ gonna change...


Peace Dividend? Hah!

 Have to agree and that gets filed under lie #12 We Get Meaningful Input on Policy Through Voting.

Senate Democrats, with Few Exceptions, are a Gang of War-Mongers

The voting public does not want all these wars, but that's not for whom they vote.



nohero said:


nan said:

sbenois said:
Nan, is the very real possibility that Roe V. Wade is in jeopardy an example of Trump Derangement Syndrome?    


Just curious to see where the derangement really is.
 No, that's a reality brought to us by the DNC and Hillary Clinton.  
 No, it's a reality brought to us by those who DIDN'T vote for Clinton in the election vs. Trump.
Blaming the people who cared enough is really a cr*ppy way to conduct a political discussion.

 Damn that's good.   And accurate.   Ouch.   I think the guilt is eating away at her.


sbenois said:


nohero said:

nan said:

sbenois said:
Nan, is the very real possibility that Roe V. Wade is in jeopardy an example of Trump Derangement Syndrome?    


Just curious to see where the derangement really is.
 No, that's a reality brought to us by the DNC and Hillary Clinton.  
 No, it's a reality brought to us by those who DIDN'T vote for Clinton in the election vs. Trump.
Blaming the people who cared enough is really a cr*ppy way to conduct a political discussion.
 Damn that's good.   And accurate.   Ouch.   I think the guilt is eating away at her.

 sbenois and nohere are clearly believers in lie #13 

There is No Alternative to Neoliberalism/Capitalism and Underlying Social Structures are Beyond Our Sphere of Influence.

Here is some thoughts on that.


Ten Things That Are More Selfish, Stupid And Privileged Than Voting Green Party

https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/ten-things-that-are-more-selfish-stupid-and-privileged-than-voting-green-party-864b55f4d667

“Green Party” is trending on Twitter right now, which always means that Democrats are having a meltdown over something that is entirely their own fault. Apparently a few people voted Green in a close congressional election in Ohio with low turnout due to uninteresting and uninspiring candidates, which according to Hollywood celebrities like Alyssa Milano and Kathy Griffin is proof of the Green party’s selfishness, stupidity, hypocrisy, privilege, and, of course, proof of a secret Russian conspiracy.

The guilt is gnawing at you.   Good.


sbenois said:
The guilt is gnawing at you.   Good.

 That's like saying, "Give in to the Dark Side".

If you ever want to change over from Roy as your avatar, you could pick this guy.


nan said:


sbenois said:

nohero said:

nan said:

sbenois said:
Nan, is the very real possibility that Roe V. Wade is in jeopardy an example of Trump Derangement Syndrome?    


Just curious to see where the derangement really is.
 No, that's a reality brought to us by the DNC and Hillary Clinton.  
 No, it's a reality brought to us by those who DIDN'T vote for Clinton in the election vs. Trump.
Blaming the people who cared enough is really a cr*ppy way to conduct a political discussion.
 Damn that's good.   And accurate.   Ouch.   I think the guilt is eating away at her.
 sbenois and nohere are clearly believers in lie #13 
There is No Alternative to Neoliberalism/Capitalism and Underlying Social Structures are Beyond Our Sphere of Influence.
Here is some thoughts on that.


Ten Things That Are More Selfish, Stupid And Privileged Than Voting Green Party

https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/ten-things-that-are-more-selfish-stupid-and-privileged-than-voting-green-party-864b55f4d667


“Green Party” is trending on Twitter right now, which always means that Democrats are having a meltdown over something that is entirely their own fault. Apparently a few people voted Green in a close congressional election in Ohio with low turnout due to uninteresting and uninspiring candidates, which according to Hollywood celebrities like Alyssa Milano and Kathy Griffin is proof of the Green party’s selfishness, stupidity, hypocrisy, privilege, and, of course, proof of a secret Russian conspiracy.

 I'm sorry, but your post makes no sense.

If you don't want to vote for the viable alternative, that's your choice.

But don't yell at the people who DID vote for the viable alternative, as if they're the ones responsible for the nasty alternative winning the election.


And Ms. Nan, as I've told you before, my spouse teaches kids who are real victims of the little temper tantrum that too many people had, with their "So what if Trump wins" attitude.

And no amount of insulting posts from you changes that real-life situation, so spare us.


nohero said:


 If you don't want to vote for the viable alternative, that's your choice.

 Glad you finally agree with me.  Hopefully this is the end of the voter shaming threads.  Let's get back to American's big lies.  


It's the guilt talking.


nan said:


nohero said:

 If you don't want to vote for the viable alternative, that's your choice.
 Glad you finally agree with me.  Hopefully this is the end of the voter shaming threads.  Let's get back to American's big lies.  

 May be a choice, but it's a bad choice.

The Green Party needs to go away now. They have failed at everything except occasionally assisting the person most antithetical to their own positions  to win. They serve no useful purpose anymore.


nan said:


nohero said:

 If you don't want to vote for the viable alternative, that's your choice.
 Glad you finally agree with me.  Hopefully this is the end of the voter shaming threads.  Let's get back to American's big lies.  

 I've always agreed that people make their own choices.  You insult me by insinuating otherwise.

But choices have consequences, and saying "It's my choice" and then blaming others is juvenile.

[Edited to add]  And enough with the whining about "voter shaming".

If you're unhappy about me mentioning reality and consequences, tough.  Hey, guess what, you don't have as tough a life as the kids I've told you about, who are some of the "consequences" of people's vote choices.


sbenois said:
It's the guilt talking.

 Love the avatar, btw.


The biggest lie of all on this thread might be, "It's not voter shaming."  


It IS voter shaming.  And it is deserved.



Yeah, well it's going to get you 8 years of Trump.  Enjoy.  Don't say I didn't warn you.  

Now back to the big lies, for which so many fall.

It seems in general, people seem to feel that they already know about some of these and feel they are are not fooled or that there is nothing to be done except vote for the next Democrat, and it's kind of a big yawn. Or that they have never heard of some, but those are obviously stupid.  

Maybe it's time to investigate how these rules operate. Let's start with #1

We live in a democracy.

This core myth cries out for demolition with special urgency at present thanks to constant media and political class repetition of the claim that Russia “undermined our democracy” during the 2016 presidential election. I have written at length against this claim so many times that it has become difficult to do so again without excessive self-repetition. Here are just three among a large number of reports and commentaries in which I have carefully explained why the U.S. is a corporate and imperial plutocracy and even an oligarchy, not a democracy:

Ok, so there is some reference material below.  If you think that "Russia 'undermined our democracy' during the 2016 election, you might want to read that.  The focus on Russia, Russia, Russia is a planned diversion from some of the other lies, too.  So, if you think, "I know we don't have a Democracy, but there is nothing I can do but vote for Democrats and Russia still hacked our election and that's worse and what I'm upset about" this is a good step for you.  

Looking at the first article, Time is Running Out: Who Will Protect Our Wrecked Democracy from the American Oligarchy? 


University of Kentucky history department chair Ronald Formisamo’s latest book is titled volumes: American Oligarchy: The Permanence of the Political Class (University of Illinois, 2017). By Formisamo’s detailed account, U.S. politics and policy are under the control of a “permanent political class” – a “networked layer of high-income people” including Congressional representatives (half of whom are millionaires), elected officials, campaign funders, lobbyists, consultants, appointed bureaucrats, pollsters, television celebrity journalists, university presidents, and executives at well-funded nonprofit institutions. This “permanent political class,” Formisamo warns, is taking the nation “beyond [mere] plutocracy” to “the hegemony of an aristocracy of inherited wealth.”  It:
“drives economic and political inequality not only with the policies it has constructed over the past four decades, such as federal and state tax systems rigged to favor corporations and the wealthy; it also increases inequality by its self-dealing, acquisitive behavior as it enables, emulates, and enmeshes itself with the wealthiest One Percent and .01 percent …[It engages in] the direct creation of inequality by channeling the flow of income and wealth to elites [while]… its self-aggrandizement creates a culture of corruption that infects the entire society and that induces many to abuse positions of power to emulate or rise into the One Percent” …[and as it] contributes to continuing high levels of poverty and disadvantage for millions that exceed almost all advanced nations.”
This “permanent political class” (PPC) and the “aristocracy of wealth” it dutifully attends to and apes is a product of U.S. history and U.S. state capitalism. It has nothing to do with Russia.

So, if you are thinking the problem is Donald Trump or Russia or the Republicans you are believing some big lies. Not saying Donald Trump or the Republicans are good, cause they are horrible.  Not saying the Russians did not try to interfere, cause that's what countries do.  But, if you think that should be your focus, than you are believing a lie and making it easier for the PPC to affect the way you see the world.


The media supports the PPC.


If you think people like Bill Kristol are now making sense you are believing a lie. 



Read "The Devil's Chessboard" by David Talbot.  New York Times bestseller.  

https://www.amazon.com/Devils-Chessboard-Dulles-Americas-Government-ebook/dp/B00SFZB93Y

Talbot, who is not a conspiracy theory nutjob, writes about Allen Dulles and the CIA.  Readers might be surprised to know that during World War II, the head of the CIA was a fan of the Nazis and tried to help them when he could.  That even after he was "retired" from the CIA, he continued to do the job promoting wars, overthrowing countries and assassinations. The only thing Dulles seemed to like better than the Nazis was the ruling class and Wall Street. Reality sometimes makes InfoWars look like they don't have enough imagination. 


Please just reference my chart.  Bonus points if you can link the Canaanites to Luxor to the CIA.


I guess for Nan, believing in conspiracies is a bit like being a devout believer in God. It lets you believe that there is some structure to human actions rather than accepting the more disturbing truth that we’re just a bunch of clever animals trying to get ahead in life. 


tjohn said:
I guess for Nan, believing in conspiracies is a bit like being a devout believer in God. It lets you believe that there is some structure to human actions rather than accepting the more disturbing truth that we’re just a bunch of clever animals trying to get ahead in life. 

 Please don't insult those of us who are religious. ;-)


nohero said:


drummerboy said:

paulsurovell said:

Citing the USSR as the only example of socialism is a straw man argument.
 Oh.
That's ridiculous. From the 50's through the fall of the USSR, pretty much no European country was known as a socialist country - almost all of socialism/communism was associated with the USSR and its clients in American discourse. Except for maybe Sweden.
 I think Mr. Drummerboy knew what a strawman argument is, so providing the definition was a little pedantic.


Bizarre.


tjohn said:
I guess for Nan, believing in conspiracies is a bit like being a devout believer in God. It lets you believe that there is some structure to human actions rather than accepting the more disturbing truth that we’re just a bunch of clever animals trying to get ahead in life. 

 It's certainly the case for anyone who believes in the evidence-free Russia-Trump conspiracy.


Who believes in the Trump-Russia conspiracy?  I think Trump sincerely believes that he is a deal maker and can work with Putin. I would rather believe that it is all planned, but I don’t think it is. 


sbenois said:
It IS voter shaming.  And it is deserved.

Let's put the shame where it belongs:


paulsurovell said:
nohero said:

drummerboy said:

paulsurovell said:

Citing the USSR as the only example of socialism is a straw man argument.
 Oh.
That's ridiculous. From the 50's through the fall of the USSR, pretty much no European country was known as a socialist country - almost all of socialism/communism was associated with the USSR and its clients in American discourse. Except for maybe Sweden.
 I think Mr. Drummerboy knew what a strawman argument is, so providing the definition was a little pedantic.
Bizarre. 

 Okay, I will happily replace "pedantic" with "bizarre", if that floats you boat.


And Sbenois,

Still waiting for you to demonstrate your Russia-photo-expertise and explain the circumstances of this photo:


paulsurovell said:


sbenois said:
It IS voter shaming.  And it is deserved.
Let's put the shame where it belongs:

 Isn't this the exact same strategy document you posted in another thread as an example of DNC corruption?


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