Abortion

So on a thread about cancel culture my buddy Morganna said she was looking for a  discussion of a political issue. Instead she got a discussion about the Duke and Dutchess of Sussex. I do not think that is what Morganna was looking for.

So why not an old stand-by issue that's been the source of discussion for 50 years.

 https://www.politico.com/news/2021/03/09/arkansas-abortion-ban-474957

In many ways, we are the worst country.

musing

BBC this morning had a short piece on "Jane," the 60s/70s -- pre-Roe -- Chicago abortion collective.  The Janes' idea of a law addressing abortion iirc was a blank piece of paper (but maybe we need a little more than that?).

imo, it's a hard question about a hard situation, AND i believe made harder by the R's exploiting it for votes all these years while not really caring about it themselves, not to mention the possibility that some "evangelists" exploit it for money.

Brian Lehrer did a whole show years ago searching for common ground between guests who were advocates of the two sides, and managed to find a good deal of overlap.  More of that process could be useful, no?  ( Brian Lehrer)

end musing

not even with a ten foot pole....

if the anti-abortionists were actually rational, they would join the pro-choice movement in making sure there was thorough sex-education, easy access to contraceptives and the morning after pill - all of which are ways of decreasing the need for people getting abortions, which is everyone's ostensible goal.

But they're not rational - their beliefs come from a deep well of thinking that women should be subjugated and that sex is icky.

I'll have to see if I can find it, but there is a great twitter thread which breaks down the source of unwanted pregnancies very succinctly - it all comes down to the fact that when having sex, the man wants a tiny bit more pleasure by ejaculating inside the woman without a condom.

That's it. That's all there is to it. Just pure selfishness.
 

found it. click to read the whole thread.

.

mtierney said:

not even with a ten foot pole....

 Good, because if I had wanted to hear from an.....

Wow, talk about timing with a hint of irony. I just found this and am ready to jump in but I'm running out to pick up a cat from my rescue, after her spay.

I'm definitely coming back to this later today.

I remembered a comment, and thought it was by Peggy Noonan on Morning Joe a few years ago, that the left had to move  on abortion and the right had to move on gun rights. But as I did a quick search just now I found Noonan had written quite a bit on abortion, strongly against it, but I'm still reading.

I've listened to women on both sides of the issue. I've seen women as they age past their child bearing years lean away from choice. Obviously it is not their problem and it is not unusual for people to turn to their religion in later years.

I've heard women who voted for Trump say they were pro choice but felt their was no danger of Roe being overturned; 

I've heard comments that were critical of women using it as a form of birth control.

But one of the arguments that moved me the most was from Sen. Patty Murray. I caught part of her speech on the Senate floor defending a woman's right to chose. She discussed life threatening health challenges to the fetus that appear late in pregnancy. I knew nothing of any of them. I imagine many people feel somewhat comfortable with very early termination, but are against late term abortion. 

It seems like that would be the compromise but after Sen. Murray made her case, I started looking at laws state by state. It is a topic that should be debated and discussed, if only to find our common ground.

It seems like their could be more experimentation in the realm of male contraception. Options for women have had health risks or have not been that reliable. 

I like to remind the, "just be responsible" crowd that a woman is fertile for about 40 years. Seems like a slip could happen.

I also like to remind that crowd that a good portion of those abortions are sought out by married women so seems like the share of responsibility is obvious.

The only cable news show I've ever seen cover the issue was Rachel Maddow, a few years ago and when I looked at the map of the states that were ready to enact laws banning all abortion, I was surprised and have been following it since.

Glad I could provide you with an issue to discuss.

As to Peggy Noonan all she was saying is that people should move closer to her opinions on abortion and guns.

Morganna said:

I also like to remind that crowd that a good portion of those abortions are sought out by married women so seems like the share of responsibility is obvious.

As best as I know, there has only been one woman in all of history to have successfully claimed to have gotten pregnant without the involvement of a man. In other words, a man ALWAYS shares responsibility for a pregnancy - regardless of the woman's marital status.

Steve said:

Morganna said:

I also like to remind that crowd that a good portion of those abortions are sought out by married women so seems like the share of responsibility is obvious.

As best as I know, there has only been one woman in all of history to have successfully claimed to have gotten pregnant without the involvement of a man. In other words, a man ALWAYS shares responsibility for a pregnancy - regardless of the woman's marital status.

 I'd go further. Rather than sharing responsibility, it is 100% the man's fault for any unwanted pregnancy.

drummerboy said:

 I'd go further. Rather than sharing responsibility, it is 100% the man's fault for any unwanted pregnancy.

 Explain.

STANV said:

drummerboy said:

 I'd go further. Rather than sharing responsibility, it is 100% the man's fault for any unwanted pregnancy.

 Explain.

 did you read the twitter thread I posted earlier? It's all there.

https://maplewood.worldwebs.com/forums/discussion/subforum/abortion-s/politics-plus?page=next&limit=0#discussion-replies-3541776

eta: but to simplify - who other than the man is responsible for ejaculating into the woman? without that decision, there is no pregnancy.

Looking for state comparisons

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/abortion-laws-by-state